|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
Buckeye Oysters
From Zero to Hero



Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1,849
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
|
What over pasteurization does to your grow
#14213744 - 03/31/11 08:26 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I had to rewire my 55gal pasteurization barrel because I was using 14awg wire cord and didn't know that the terminal ends connecting to the heating element were heating up and breaking the connection. Also I was using a thermostat till a few weeks ago and didn't realize how much it slowed things down, but was a good thing because had I not used it the wiring would have heated up to much anyway. So now I am using a heavy duty 10awg extension cord with end replaced with terminal ends and no thermostat and a independent 20amp line to breaker.
The problem now is that all the straw logs I made during the period that the barrel was having problems are getting bacterial contams and producing heavy metabolite over a few of the first flush fruits and most of the second flush fruits. This is because I had wait too long for temp to rise in barrel and portions of the straw were overpasteurized (semi - sterilized). It affected both my king oysters and blue oysters. Also made blue oyster fruits pale in color. You can see where metabolite is building up under plastic in areas near bits of alfalfa.
-------------------- Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise. Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated. For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.
|
shroom-jitsu
Divine Triangler



Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 439
Loc: Here
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
#14215562 - 03/31/11 03:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Just out of curiosity, do we know exactly what types of beneficial bacterial we are trying to maintain via pasteurization? I'm about to do my fist grow that will actually require pasteurization - going to try a wine cap run from Sporeworks culture. This is the first question that came to mind when reading through the TEKs.
Just curious. Thanks in advance!
-SJ
|
NSF
Eager to learn


Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 548
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
#14215610 - 03/31/11 03:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I'm happy that you've got it sorted but without trying to sound like a smart arse why didn't you add your substrate after you'd reached temperature.
Also, if you've got partial sterilisation then why would this increase contam rates?
@shroom jitsu: i'm of the belief that these beneficial bacteria aren't bacteria at all (i'll find out what they're called and edit this post) but they are really only useful for secondary decomposers like agaricus bisporus or dung loving types. For our primary digesting exotics sterilising should be better than pasteurising, killing off more competitors.
--------------------
|
Buckeye Oysters
From Zero to Hero



Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1,849
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: shroom-jitsu]
#14215637 - 03/31/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
shroom-jitsu said: Just out of curiosity, do we know exactly what types of beneficial bacterial we are trying to maintain via pasteurization? I'm about to do my fist grow that will actually require pasteurization - going to try a wine cap run from Sporeworks culture. This is the first question that came to mind when reading through the TEKs.
Just curious. Thanks in advance!
-SJ
I am not sure but I imagine that the species of bacteria and other microorganisms that survive pasteurization number in the thousands. Did you know that there are more species of microorganisms in a square inch of dirt than all species combined that roam the earth.
-------------------- Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise. Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated. For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.
|
Buckeye Oysters
From Zero to Hero



Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1,849
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: NSF]
#14215666 - 03/31/11 04:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
NSF said: I'm happy that you've got it sorted but without trying to sound like a smart arse why didn't you add your substrate after you'd reached temperature.
Also, if you've got partial sterilisation then why would this increase contam rates?
@shroom jitsu: i'm of the belief that these beneficial bacteria aren't bacteria at all (i'll find out what they're called and edit this post) but they are really only useful for secondary decomposers like agaricus bisporus or dung loving types. For our primary digesting exotics sterilising should be better than pasteurising, killing off more competitors.
You need to do some homework and read up on pasteurization. Pasteurization temp is 160f, much too high for spawning and has to be cooled for a couple hours. Yes it is bacteria, an no you cant use pasteurization for agaricus, etc because they require unsterilized substrate to fruit.
The reason why sterilization didn't occur after the pasteurization went too long is because the sterilizing was incomplete and only killed off colonies of beneficial bacteria while letting thermophiles live with no control.
-------------------- Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise. Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated. For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.
|
Ozzy
TimeLord




Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,067
Loc:
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
#14215687 - 03/31/11 04:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
How's it going Buckeye! I am running the same wire ( 12guage) between the thermostats as you with a 50 amp breaker and 8 guage wire for the plug . Haven't had any problems yet. so you say you are not using the thermostats anymore? How is that working out ? it doesn't get to hot?
EDIT : for clarification on wiring.
Edited by Ozzy (03/31/11 11:46 PM)
|
Buckeye Oysters
From Zero to Hero



Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1,849
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: Ozzy]
#14215742 - 03/31/11 04:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ozzy said: How's it going Buckeye! I am running the same wire ( 12guage) as you with a 50 amp breaker . Haven't had any problems yet. so you say you are not using the thermostats anymore? How is that working out ? it doesn't get to hot?
Going Good!
I'd definitly recommend the heavy duty cord, it took about 50 loads before it broke but still dangerous. Yeh im not using thermo anymore. As long as water in barrel it wont get too hot but if your plug ends and wire arent low enough gauge they will overheat and at least melt the plastic wire casing and plug ends.
-------------------- Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise. Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated. For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.
|
Ozzy
TimeLord




Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,067
Loc:
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
#14215776 - 03/31/11 04:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Interesting, How much faster do you think it is. Mine generally take 30-40 min when jump starting from my hot water heater. and 60 to 75min when running cold.
|
NSF
Eager to learn


Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 548
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
#14216876 - 03/31/11 07:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Buckeye Oysters said:
You need to do some homework and read up on pasteurization. Pasteurization temp is 160f, much too high for spawning and has to be cooled for a couple hours. Yes it is bacteria, an no you cant use pasteurization for agaricus, etc because they require unsterilized substrate to fruit.
The reason why sterilization didn't occur after the pasteurization went too long is because the sterilizing was incomplete and only killed off colonies of beneficial bacteria while letting thermophiles live with no control.
No no i didn't say why can't you add your spawn once it comes to temp. I meant, why can't you heat just your water to temp, then drop your substrate into the already hot water and pasteurise it. Then when it's done, of course drain it, let it cool and then add your spawn.
And with the agaricus bisporus...i beg to differ, i'm pretty certain commercial growers DO padteurise their substrate, but no, they do not sterilise it.
--------------------
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: Ozzy]
#14217546 - 03/31/11 09:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ozzy said: How's it going Buckeye! I am running the same wire ( 12guage) as you with a 50 amp breaker . Haven't had any problems yet.?

#12 wire is required by code to be connected to no larger than a 20 amp breaker. The wire can heat up and cause a fire if the breaker doesn't trip when the current rating of the wire is reached. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
|
Ozzy
TimeLord




Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,067
Loc:
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14218061 - 03/31/11 11:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
Ozzy said: How's it going Buckeye! I am running the same wire ( 12gauge) as you with a 50 amp breaker . Haven't had any problems yet.?

#12 wire is required by code to be connected to no larger than a 20 amp breaker. The wire can heat up and cause a fire if the breaker doesn't trip when the current rating of the wire is reached. RR
I meant between the thermostats. the wiring for the plug is 8 gauge.


Edited the post upthread for clarification.
Edited by Ozzy (03/31/11 11:47 PM)
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: Ozzy]
#14224107 - 04/01/11 11:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
That looks like #12 connected to the element. What wattage and voltage is it?
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
|
SpawnRun
Morchella esculenta



Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 301
Loc: Oregon
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
#14224321 - 04/02/11 12:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Buckeye Oysters said:
Quote:
NSF said: I'm happy that you've got it sorted but without trying to sound like a smart arse why didn't you add your substrate after you'd reached temperature.
Also, if you've got partial sterilisation then why would this increase contam rates?
@shroom jitsu: i'm of the belief that these beneficial bacteria aren't bacteria at all (i'll find out what they're called and edit this post) but they are really only useful for secondary decomposers like agaricus bisporus or dung loving types. For our primary digesting exotics sterilising should be better than pasteurising, killing off more competitors.
You need to do some homework and read up on pasteurization. Pasteurization temp is 160f, much too high for spawning and has to be cooled for a couple hours. Yes it is bacteria, an no you cant use pasteurization for agaricus, etc because they require unsterilized substrate to fruit.
The reason why sterilization didn't occur after the pasteurization went too long is because the sterilizing was incomplete and only killed off colonies of beneficial bacteria while letting thermophiles live with no control.
Pseudomonas putina is the most common bacteria that helps trigger the Agaricus complex to fruit. And, you can use a pasteurized peat/soil-based casing soil for Agaricus, provided the temp does not exceed 145F during pasteurization.
-------------------- Clayton Wiseman
|
Ozzy
TimeLord




Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,067
Loc:
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14224964 - 04/02/11 07:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: That looks like #12 connected to the element. What wattage and voltage is it?
It is 12awg.
I choose the 50 amp breaker because there are two elements at 4500 watts. the line is a 240
I didn't think a 20 amp breaker would be sufficient to run it. Am I incorrect in thinking this?
Should I swap out the 12 and jump to 10 and lower the breaker amperage to 40??
|
Not Quite Social


Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,418
Loc: Midwest
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: Ozzy]
#14226588 - 04/02/11 03:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Sorry, I'm confused. I recently bought two food grade steel drums and I was planning on buying a propane burner, but ... are you all talking about something like this? An electric drum heater?

What's the better and less expensive way to heat up my drum to pasteurization temps? For whatever reason I'm more comfortable with the idea of electricity (shock) than gas (bomb).
Thanks, Ed
PS Thanks for posting, Buckeye. When you do I almost always learn something.
--------------------
Edited by Not Quite Social (04/02/11 03:12 PM)
|
Humility
Working on it



Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 6,745
Last seen: 7 years, 11 days
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: Not Quite Social]
#14228934 - 04/02/11 11:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Thanks for this post, reminded me I gotta buy a thermometer to make sure my temps are where I want them.
--------------------

|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: Ozzy]
#14229183 - 04/03/11 12:04 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Not Quite Social said: Sorry, I'm confused. I recently bought two food grade steel drums and I was planning on buying a propane burner, but ... are you all talking about something like this? An electric drum heater?

What's the better and less expensive way to heat up my drum to pasteurization temps? For whatever reason I'm more comfortable with the idea of electricity (shock) than gas (bomb).
Thanks, Ed
Propane or wood is best to heat the water. If you want electric heat, get a proper hot water heater element, which goes inside the drum. You don't want one of those wrap-around heater sleeves. It will take hours to get to temp.
Quote:
Ozzy said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: That looks like #12 connected to the element. What wattage and voltage is it?
It is 12awg.
I choose the 50 amp breaker because there are two elements at 4500 watts. the line is a 240
I didn't think a 20 amp breaker would be sufficient to run it. Am I incorrect in thinking this?
Should I swap out the 12 and jump to 10 and lower the breaker amperage to 40??
At 240 volts, a 4.5K element draws 18.75 amps. #12 wire should never be connected to higher than a 20 amp breaker, and if you run for over an hour within 80% of the rated trip current, the breaker will likely trip.
What you need to do is use #10 wire and connect it to a 30 amp breaker. For two elements, feed them separately from two 30 amp breakers. Be sure to ground the metal parts of the drum to the electrical panel ground. You could get away with the 50 amp breaker, but you really should run the larger wire all the way to the element. I cringe when I see #12 tied to a large breaker. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
|
Ozzy
TimeLord




Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,067
Loc:
|
Re: What over pasteurization does to your grow [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14230265 - 04/03/11 08:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Thanks for the advise RR, I will swap the 12 for 10 to the elements, and modify my write up on the drum to match. Being safe is better than being dead I have heard.
Thanks for posting buckeye, It has led to some safer practices with the drums!!!!!!!
Edited by Ozzy (04/03/11 09:00 AM)
|
|