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OfflineSalvia_Antics
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Is there such thing as pure energy?
    #14215570 - 03/31/11 03:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm talking about energy which is universal, underlying all forms of energy(kinetic and potential). "Pure energy". Maybe there is no answer or I'm missing something with the definition of energy. I have heard it talked about when looking into antimatter/matter collisions but I'm still confused.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: Salvia_Antics]
    #14215849 - 03/31/11 04:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

No, not in science.  "Purity" is not an attribute that energy can have in science.  In mysticism and spirituality they use a different definition of energy and I have heard them talk about purity before.

I have heard people talk about electromagnetic waves as though they are "pure" energy, but I believe that to be an incorrect statement.  I mention this because electromagnetic waves are what come out of matter/anti-matter collisions.  I would guess that the person you heard is defining the energy tied up in mass and 'unpure' and energy tied up in electromagnetic waves as 'pure', but that is not a meaningful distinction and scientists dont generally talk about energy in those terms.

Energy can have different 'quality' levels though.  You can have high quality energy and low quality energy.  How quality is defined here is as a measure of the energy's ability to do useful work.  For example, the ocean contains a vast amount of thermal energy but it is of low quality and thus cant be used for useful work.  (ie, you cant run a boat off of the ocean's thermal energy).  The hot gases inside the ship's engine contain less energy than the ocean, but it is energy of a higher quality and it can actually do useful work - thus the ship is able to run off of the energy in its combustion chamber.


Edited by DieCommie (03/31/11 04:56 PM)


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OfflineSalvia_Antics
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14217837 - 03/31/11 10:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What kind of energy are they talking about with E=mc^2 ?


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: Salvia_Antics]
    #14217990 - 03/31/11 11:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Nuclear potential energy.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14218997 - 04/01/11 04:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

> Nuclear potential energy.

Strong or weak?


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Invisiblecc2
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: Seuss]
    #14222184 - 04/01/11 05:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

heat or light maybe? it's subjective IMO though. unless new subatomic particles are discovered :smile: I think that ones matching close to "pure energy" were theorized but not discovered as of now.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: cc2]
    #14222317 - 04/01/11 05:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

cc2 said:
heat or light maybe? it's subjective IMO though. unless new subatomic particles are discovered :smile: I think that ones matching close to "pure energy" were theorized but not discovered as of now.




Not really.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: Seuss]
    #14222409 - 04/01/11 05:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Nuclear potential energy.

Strong or weak?




I left my post intentionally ambiguous because I wasn't really sure at the time but was leaning towards "both".  It really depends on the process that is occurring.  In a typical fission event, which I assumed--perhaps without basis--Salvia_Antics was referring to, the primary contribution is undoubtedly from the residual strong force.  There are nucleon conversions happening but I'm unsure without looking into it if these are energy-releasing or energy-consuming reactions, so I don't know for sure if the weak force is contributing to the energy released. 

On reflection though, even electromagnetic energy has mass when stored in chemical bonds, and kinetic energy also has mass.  So of course the E can refer to any kind of energy at all.  Of course photons are massless "incarnations" of energy, but as soon as they are absorbed by something with mass, its mass increases.  I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the massiveness of gravitational potential energy, but the relation should still hold even in that case.


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Invisiblecc2
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14225220 - 04/02/11 09:33 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Quote:

cc2 said:
heat or light maybe? it's subjective IMO though. unless new subatomic particles are discovered :smile: I think that ones matching close to "pure energy" were theorized but not discovered as of now.




Not really.




then what's you're looking for is just utopia, or a theoretical definition, unless Ki is scientifically accepted. :smile:


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: cc2]
    #14229993 - 04/03/11 06:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

cc2 said:
Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Quote:

cc2 said:
heat or light maybe? it's subjective IMO though. unless new subatomic particles are discovered :smile: I think that ones matching close to "pure energy" were theorized but not discovered as of now.




Not really.




then what's you're looking for is just utopia, or a theoretical definition, unless Ki is scientifically accepted. :smile:




I'm not looking for "pure energy".


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14231937 - 04/03/11 04:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

he is trying to help. you can't see that?


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #14232068 - 04/03/11 04:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
he is trying to help. you can't see that?




And the relevance to that question is...?

What do his intentions have to do with the validity of his suggestion or ChuangTzu's posts?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14233320 - 04/03/11 09:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

hmmm? i thought we were talking about Salvia_Antics question here? not ChangTzu's.
and i didn't call anyone's validity into question here. :shrug:
Quote:

cc2 said:
Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Quote:

cc2 said:
heat or light maybe? it's subjective IMO though. unless new subatomic particles are discovered :smile: I think that ones matching close to "pure energy" were theorized but not discovered as of now.




Not really.




then what's you're looking for is just utopia, or a theoretical definition, unless Ki is scientifically accepted. :smile:




Look^

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:

I'm not looking for "pure energy".




who cares? ^

this isn't about ChangTzu or anybodies validity, other than OP's.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #14233349 - 04/03/11 09:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

you indicated in your post that you were replying to Chuang Tzu, hence I thought you were replying to Chuang Tzu.  If you intended to reply to someone else other than the person listed in your post, I wasn't aware.

Quote:

akira_akuma said:


Quote:

ChuangTzu said:

I'm not looking for "pure energy".




who cares? ^

this isn't about ChangTzu or anybodies validity, other than OP's.




It is indeed about ChangTzu's intentions as that was the claim cc2 made.  In reply Chuang Tzu says he is not looking for that which cc2 states that he is looking for.

Perhaps you have some difficulty with the reply to: feature or "quick reply"?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: johnm214]
    #14233404 - 04/03/11 09:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

no, but i am having a problem with someone being discredited for no apparent reason. ChangTzu is not the one asking the questions here... so why does he get to discredit someone else's posts and information? this isn't validity, it's nonsense, and i was just pointing that out.

PS: just because cc2s posts are in the direction of ChangTzus posts, it's still clearly a reference to the OP's post, which asks whether one can deduce if there is pure energy or not.

in this case, it seems that changtzu forgot that he was posting to OP not RP, because the reply was to the context of discussing the OP not ChangTzu's observations. they were clearly dismissed as opposed to being accepted. simple.


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OfflineTrippy_Smurf
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #14264745 - 04/09/11 10:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Pure energy exists.  Google Information Society Pure Energy.


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OfflineMedici_head
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: Trippy_Smurf]
    #14274380 - 04/11/11 07:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I would lean towards the idea that there is no such thing as "pure" energy, but only forms of it e.g. light, sound, heat, etc. EDIT: pure energy is an interesting theoretical concept though :smile: medici


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Edited by Medici_head (04/11/11 07:24 PM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: Medici_head]
    #14274888 - 04/11/11 09:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Medici_head said:
I would lean towards the idea that there is no such thing as "pure" energy, but only forms of it e.g. light, sound, heat, etc. EDIT: pure energy is an interesting theoretical concept though :smile: medici



good post.


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OfflineSalvia_Antics
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Re: Is there such thing as pure energy? [Re: Medici_head]
    #14278517 - 04/12/11 03:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Medici_head said:
I would lean towards the idea that there is no such thing as "pure" energy, but only forms of it e.g. light, sound, heat, etc. EDIT: pure energy is an interesting theoretical concept though :smile: medici




Yeah, it seemed to spark a lively debate. I wish I could have participated but i'm far to layman.


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