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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14210771 - 03/30/11 05:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

No, but his posts do smack of dogmatic fundamentalism. He could make a great atheistic underachiever.


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Offline4896744
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14210918 - 03/30/11 05:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

iThink said:
I wouldn't have thought this was even worth discussing, but apparently there are a good amount of Christians in this forum.

I say that Christianity just another made up religion that is only prevalent today due to Constantine making it the religion of the Roman Empire to gain more control over his subjects.




No shit, Sherlock. How many Christians do you think actually read the Bible? Religions don't become popular through studied analysis of history and scripture by every participating individual, they become popular through social and (in Constantine's case) political necessity.

It's so easy to write off things we don't understand as "bullshit." Too easy, in my opinion.




I wouldn't have thought this was even worthy of a thread until I ended up in a debate with multiple Christians at once in another thread.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
General is fine, puerile isn't. Religions are never 'made up.'




Of course they are "made up". Sure, I would not say that most or all of every religion was "made up" at one time or was made with the intent to deceive, but you are creating your own special definition of "made up".


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: 4896744]
    #14210927 - 03/30/11 05:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What part of Christianity are you talking about that is "made up" "bullshit"?


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Offline4896744
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14210951 - 03/30/11 05:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
What part of Christianity are you talking about that is "made up" "bullshit"?




All of it, except for some areas concerning historical events.

EDIT: Scratch what I just said and lets go with the "magic" parts.


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Edited by iThink (03/30/11 05:57 PM)

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #14210956 - 03/30/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:brbjesus: <--------That part.


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: 4896744]
    #14210966 - 03/30/11 05:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
What part of Christianity are you talking about that is "made up" "bullshit"?




All of it, except for some areas concerning historical events.




And what parts are those?


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Enlil said:
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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Poid]
    #14210991 - 03/30/11 06:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
:brbjesus: <--------That part.




Right, so let's just discredit the thousands of years of groundbreaking history, poetry, and philosophy found in the Bible because the ending was obviously tacked on.

Nothing could be more myopic.


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Enlil said:
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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14211013 - 03/30/11 06:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
:brbjesus: <--------That part.




Right, so let's just discredit the thousands of years of groundbreaking history, poetry, and philosophy found in the Bible...


Why would we do that? That would be fucking retarded.


Quote:

Tchan909 said:
...because the ending was obviously tacked on.


That's only one example of something that was made up--there isn't enough bandwidth on the Shroomery to mention all the bullshit.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14211024 - 03/30/11 06:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Wait, what "groundbreaking history"? Do you actually consider the Bible to be historically accurate? :curbyourenthusiasm:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Poid]
    #14211031 - 03/30/11 06:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

All of language is made-up if you want to get at the heart of it. :shrug:

The Jesus story, as preserved by the church co-opted by the Roman state, is far more devious than it appears on the surface. Not only is half of it made-up, but it cites Old Testament passages and uses Old Testament language in a way that subverts the meaning and intent of those writings and renders them obviously untrue when addressed using the language and ontology we have inherited from it.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14211046 - 03/30/11 06:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
All of language is made-up if you want to get at the heart of it. :shrug:


I don't think that's what iThink meant by "made up"...


Quote:

Tchan909 said:
The Jesus story, as preserved by the church co-opted by the Roman state, is far more devious than it appears on the surface. Not only is half of it made-up, but it cites Old Testament passages and uses Old Testament language in a way that subverts the meaning and intent of those writings and renders it obviously untrue when addressed in the language that you and I are speaking right now.


I'm sure historians have taken this to account, and still concluded that it's not historically accurate.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Poid]
    #14211099 - 03/30/11 06:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

But historians make stuff up too, they just do it to the best of their (albeit extensive) knowledge.

"Bullshit" occurs in situations where vested interests interfere with historical records to meet their own needs. I have no doubt that the Bible is rife with bullshit, but it nonetheless provides a framework for the predominating historical narrative we know today, one where kings and emperors are automatically held as morally and practically inferior to a hippie who died in the act of nonviolent protest.

The Bible is a beautiful fucking book.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14211126 - 03/30/11 06:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
But historians make stuff up too, they just do it to the best of their (albeit extensive) knowledge.


So why do you think the Bible is historically accurate?


Quote:

Tchan909 said:
"Bullshit" occurs in situations where vested interests interfere with historical records to meet their own needs. I have no doubt that the Bible is rife with bullshit...


Then what are you arguing against? :confused:


Quote:

Tchan909 said:
...but it nonetheless provides a framework for the predominating historical narrative we know today, one where kings and emperors are automatically held as morally and practically inferior to a hippie who died in the act of nonviolent protest.

The Bible is a beautiful fucking book.


So is Homer's Odyssey. :homerdrool:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Poid]
    #14211173 - 03/30/11 06:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I never said the Bible was historically accurate, but the modern concept of history, itself, is based mainly upon the precedent set by the Bible and related traditions.

My main thrust in all of this is not that the Bible should be taken at face value; quite the opposite, it should be studied with a critical eye on its relationship with modern culture.

This whole story that the Bible is "bullshit" that can be safely ignored is enormously disempowering, and I suspect much of the modern popularity of anti-Biblical atheism has been aided by people who, for whatever reason, do not want us to understand our cultural heritage or our place in the world beyond what we can immediately see and buy.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: EternalCowabunga] * 1
    #14211500 - 03/30/11 07:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Christianity and mental illness go hand in hand in my experience




As self appointed spokesperson for the mentally ill, I resent this insulting religious association!

:kingcrankey:


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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Blondell_Letrange] * 1
    #14211805 - 03/30/11 08:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i think a big part of the problem on both ends of this issue is neither side knowing much about what they're defending. i respect theist and atheist world views, but ffs know what the hell you're talking about before you open your mouth.


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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14212101 - 03/30/11 09:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Guys, Tchan is right. The bible is beautiful and important because it does show us pieces of history (some made up, some true) and even the made up bullshit has affected history.

For example the idea that we are all equal as in "all equal in the sight of God) and not only equal, but equally inferior and dirty. What do we hear preached over the TV today? Democracy. All slaves are equal.

Another idea is the idea of free will. They used (maybe just Paul, I dont know) the idea of free will to impose guilt and therefore the need for "salvation"


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Offline4896744
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: mikeisapro]
    #14213886 - 03/31/11 09:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mikeisapro said:
Guys, Tchan is right. The bible is beautiful and important because it does show us pieces of history (some made up, some true) and even the made up bullshit has affected history.

For example the idea that we are all equal as in "all equal in the sight of God) and not only equal, but equally inferior and dirty. What do we hear preached over the TV today? Democracy. All slaves are equal.

Another idea is the idea of free will. They used (maybe just Paul, I dont know) the idea of free will to impose guilt and therefore the need for "salvation"




:facepalm:

You start off with declaring a subjective statement as fact, and then make a weak attempt at expanding on what was already discussed. Sure the bible gives some insight into history, but guess what, so does every other work of fiction that is supposed to be in a certain time period.

You act as if having a somewhat accurate recount of different events that were widely known at the time is some huge accomplishment.

Also, what do you mean by "All slaves are equal"? Are you implying that democracy or a free market enslaves us in a bad way? What would be the better alternative?


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: 4896744]
    #14214144 - 03/31/11 10:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm really not trying to put forward the idea that the Bible is a reliable historical narrative... however, I am saying that a well-read familiarity with its truths as well as its distortions is essential to cultural literacy.

I think it's been well-established for quite some time now that the Bible is not a reliable historical record, and you'd probably find livelier debates on the subject hundreds of years ago. I do not believe that the Earth was made 6000 years ago, and neither does anybody else with half a brain.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Offlinemikeisapro
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: 4896744]
    #14214178 - 03/31/11 10:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

mikeisapro said:
Guys, Tchan is right. The bible is beautiful and important because it does show us pieces of history (some made up, some true) and even the made up bullshit has affected history.

For example the idea that we are all equal as in "all equal in the sight of God) and not only equal, but equally inferior and dirty. What do we hear preached over the TV today? Democracy. All slaves are equal.

Another idea is the idea of free will. They used (maybe just Paul, I dont know) the idea of free will to impose guilt and therefore the need for "salvation"




:facepalm:

You start off with declaring a subjective statement as fact, and then make a weak attempt at expanding on what was already discussed. Sure the bible gives some insight into history, but guess what, so does every other work of fiction that is supposed to be in a certain time period.

You act as if having a somewhat accurate recount of different events that were widely known at the time is some huge accomplishment.

Also, what do you mean by "All slaves are equal"? Are you implying that democracy or a free market enslaves us in a bad way? What would be the better alternative?



No I didn't say it was a bad thing, it's the nature of things. I was implying that the idea of everybody being equal is false, but it is propagated in our society to the middle class and the poor as if it were true. I guess it's "bad" that a falsehood is treated as true.


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