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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid]
    #1429157 - 04/04/03 03:07 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Have any philosophers taken shrooms/lsd/hallucinogens ? just wondering how they deal with the amplified reality distoring affects (given that they think about such existential questions) ?


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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OfflinePed
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid] * 1
    #1430380 - 04/04/03 11:21 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

The only philosopher I'm aware of who has experience with psychedelic drugs goes by the name of Alan Watts. I have plenty of his lectures recorded if you'd like them. Let me know.

It seems to me like your thoughts are constantly spinning out of control. That is classified as a "symptom" of "schizophrenia". Let me ask you: Have you noticed any perceptual distortions since your mushroom experience? Any frightening shifts of the visual field, or misinterpretations of sensory input? Have you ever felt as though your visual or audiospectral fields are "breaking apart"? If you have any doubt whether or not you've experienced these things, you probably haven't. They are very distinct events.

From the way you describe your living, and from what I can see here on my screen, I think it would be extremely beneficial for you to cultivate mental discipline.

This is a problem I've been working to overcome in myself as well, through meditation. I'm not referencing the "type" of meditation that suggests enlightenment or holiness, or anything divine. Just the act of sitting, and being very deliberate about collecting your mind, finding a center, attaching to one process and quieting everything else.

I use a Zen technique to do this. I'll share it with you.

In this technique, posture is not important but it helps a great deal. Assuming a "correct" posture draws your attention to the practice at hand, and creates an association in your mind that you are doing something unattached to other aspects of your life. For example, if you try to meditate at the kitchen table, your mind will think it is time to eat. Calming your thoughts becomes more difficult.

The Burmese position works well for most people. Gather some coushins, and just sit cross legged, with your back slightly arched concave. Push your head toward the cieling. Place your hands where you would like. Some people cup them on their lap, others let them rest on their knees. Allow your gaze to fall about three feet infront of you. Once you find this posture, you'll notice that it's very comfortable and easy to hold for long periods. Don't be discouraged if you can't find the posture right away -- finding the right position can be a meditation in itself.

Once sitting, focus on the breath. Breathe inward, count 1. Exhale, count 2. Continue this until you've reached 10 without becoming distracted by passing thoughts. If a thought blooms in your mind that takes your attention away from your breath, deliberately draw your mind back to focusing on the breath, and start over again from 1. If there any persistent recurring thoughts that come up, continue breathing, but engage the thought until you come to resolve. It's important that you do not allow yourself to be distracted from the recurring thought by another thought. Try to keep your mind on one thing at a time.

Once you reach 10 without being distracted by uncontrollable thoughts, repeat the count as long as you like. Remain quiet for as long as you feel comfortable doing so.

I've found that practicing this has greatly improved my quality of life, as well as enhanced by ability to construct ideas into communicable form.

Do not subsitute professional advice for meditative practice. Again, if you feel dangerously dysfunctional, find a person who is knowledgable and experienced enough to handle your situation externally.

Hope this helps.


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid]
    #1430454 - 04/04/03 11:50 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

OK, ive been where your at, but not the same degree.  I got out of it and you will too.  I had a trip go real bad, i had dosed much higher in the past but that trip for some reason was real bad.  I had bad anxiety with the same worries, i was so incredibly intoxicated while on mushrooms i convinced my self i was insane, and was permantly.  Well i went thru a while feeling like i was still going insane.  If i smoked a good amount of marijuana it felt like i was still tripping. 

I never felt suicidal, but i did have many many irrational thoughts about really stupid stuff, poking my eye out, breaking the guinie pig's leg.  Like what the fuck, why would am i thinking about this, scared me real bad.  I would never EVER do anything like that, but it totally freaked me out bad that i could even come up with that thought or cumpulsion to do it. 

Time basically healed me, i just tought myself to relax and understand that all the thoughts are irational and just stupid random thoughts id never act on.  I never had anything like that till after i started tripping a lot.  I dont want to blame mushrooms on it.. but i think the frequency i was using them deffinatly contributred to it.

Im back to 100%, feel great and happy doing good in collegeblah blah.....  Havent tripped since then but i think i will again in the future.

Time heals, the trip probably showed you stuff about your life that was really hard to except.  Grieve and deal with it and you will be ok.  :cool:

im really drunk/stoned right now but i hope that helped.


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This is the only time I really feel alive.

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Offlinebaraka
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: baraka]
    #1430463 - 04/04/03 11:53 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

oh ya... i have never taken any anti depressants or anything, but i did take 5-htp for a while and i think it helped.  Might of been placebo tho :smile:.  Might be somthing to try.  i think i took 200 mg a day. or 2 pills morning  2 at night think they where 50s.


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This is the only time I really feel alive.

Edited by baraka (04/04/03 11:55 PM)

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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: baraka]
    #1430988 - 04/05/03 08:44 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Hi Everyone,
To answer Ped:
"It seems to me like your thoughts are constantly spinning out of control" - exactly, destructively so :-( no perceptual distortions at all, except that when I wake up in the middle of the night, for a very brief moment I frequently don't know where/who I am and get very frightened before being able to put things together (this has been increasing in frequency/intensity and my dreams are getting very very anxious too :-( but no visual/auditory distortions while I'm awake, at least not yet...
By "enlightenment" I simply meant "the end of suffering", i.e. "feeling a deep joy and absence of pain and perhaps a sense that u are more than just a collection of thoughts" - I realize I'm being vague here, but I didn't mean it in a divine/holy sense either. I will certainly try the meditation technique u mentioned, I'm also trying desperately to see a psychiatrist but aparently there's a 6 month wait to see one here in Montreal (so much for the terrific health services in CA :-( - but to be fair at least I don't have to pay to see a regular doc.
To answer Baraka:
Thanks for sharing your experience with me :-) It's good to know that people have recovered.

So far I havn't shared my detailed experience of the trip itself so I'll do that now and try to be brief:
Basically, I had a really tough day at work, came home a bit tired/bored and was thinking of going out to my usual spot to meditate when I thought... hmmm... maybe I'll do something different today, maybe I'll just pop a couple of these shroom things that my friend was raving about (bear in mind I completely trusted my friend and since he never mentioned anything even close to permanent damage of any kind, I was unaware of such possibilities - and he had said that "1 cap would have no affect, 2 would have a very mild affect and 3 might produce mild visual distortions double images etc"). So I popped 2 shroom capsules (I'm assuming that's about 2 grams - they were about the size of your avg 1gram vit c capsule) and sat down at my computer and started checking my mail etc... after about 30 minutes it "hit !" I suddenly felt "extreeeeeme" panic (keep in mind that I was slightly bored/down before the shrooom but extreeemly calm, hardly panicing in any way), so I got even more worried at this very unusual sensation. A few months ago I had had a very mild bit of worry when I took weed (I've only had weed twice), cauze weed just made me extreemly forgetfull and I couldn't hang onto a single thought and I remember thinking "what if I just stay this way forever"... but, since I didn't know that weed could cause permanent damage, I remember calmly thinking that "no one has ever gone mad with weed..." and realizing that I'd be back to normal within the hour - which I was. Now, when I took the shroom and started to panic, I thought "gosh, this is going to last for hours ! what should I do... so I started looking up shrooms on the net and trying to figure out how long this would last and if there was anything I could take to help me just sleep through this... to my horror, the first thing I found on the web sites were talks of permanent insanity after taking shrrooms !! as u can imagine, this *really, really* freaked me out. I tried desperately to see if I could find something positive, but my mind had just latched onto the stories of people going permanently nuts after shrrooms. Then I called up my friend who tried to calm me down, and was with me on the phone for a major part of the trip, but he just kept trying to distract me and talk about other things (which didn't really help since I was conciously aware that he was just trying to distract me and that kinda made things worse - I had an undercurrent sensation that I was still panicing and couldn't really do anything about it). I spent about 9 hours in utter horror (took the shroom around 7:30 - amazing that I still remember that - and never went to sleep till around 4 the next morning and only slept a couple of hours that day), the memory of the next day are kinda vague, I remember that I was extreeemly anxious and went out for a run and then tried to find more info on the net regarding shroooms which just made matters worse. Since then I've basically been "stuck in a moment... and I can't get out of it". Even if I make an attempt to try to get out of it I feel angst since I feel that I'm running away from the panic. My parents and the few friends that I have recommend staying busy and keeping my mind engaged in something or the other... but 1) I can't seem to focus my mind on anything and 2) I don't want to run from this forever, my favourite activity in the past was just sitting alone, by myself, and not doing anything... I want to be able to do that again, I don't want to constantly be keeping myself busy and feeling deep down inside that I'm evading the impending doom of horrible thoughts...how long could I keep that up ? how long could I run from my own mind ?... I think that would be repression. Not sure what to do... to give myself up to these crazy thoughts/feelings and just hope that somehow, by watching them, they're run out of gas/dissappear/lose momentum, OR if I should try to discipline my mind and keep vigilant control and try to steer my mind from these thoughts and instill positive thoughts... I'm hoping that the former is the way to go, but I'm willing to try anything. In the past positive thoughts just used to come natually, not sure why/how but it was beautiful, I never had to "battle off bad thoughts", now it seems to have flipped, destructive thoughts are all that arise and I feel like I have to battle them off with positive thoughts that I need to craft...


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid]
    #1431181 - 04/05/03 11:01 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Hi Everyone,
I've been pouring over psychedelic induced psychosis articles over the net and found a really good article at:
http://www.psychedelic-library.org/grof2.htm

As thankful as I am to my friend for being there for me during the nightmarish trip, according to the article, his trying to distract me might be the reason I'm still caught up in this unresolved panic. To quote the article:

"The avoidance techniques developed by the self-help movement, although less harmful than the approach based on the medical and psychiatric model, are also counterproductive. Attempts to engage the subject in superficial conversations ("talking them down"), to distract them by showing them flowers and beautiful pictures, or taking them for a walk does not solve the underlying problem. This can be seen at best as playing for time&#8212;keeping the individual occupied with distracting maneuvers until the crisis subsides or diminishes with the waning of the pharmacological effect of the drug. These approaches are based on the erroneous assumption that the drug has created the problem. Once we realize that we are dealing with the dynamics of the unconscious, not a pharmacological state, the short-sightedness of this approach becomes obvious. The danger in using techniques that encourage avoidance lies in the failure to confront and resolve the unconscious material that underlies the emotional and psychosomatic crisis. LSD sessions in which the emerging gestalt is not completed are conducive to prolonged reactions, negative emotional and physical aftereffects, and "flashbacks".

Need to see a good therapist who *really* knows about psychedelics and would be willing to make concessions for a now jobless nut :-( Not sure how to find one in Montreal, CA. If anyone has any recommendations I'd *really* appreciate it.


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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Invisibledjfrog
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid] * 1
    #1431306 - 04/05/03 12:33 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Okay, here's the situation as I read it. You're an introvert, you find satisfaction internally. Thats fine. You're a bit of an intellect too in that you've made something of a hobby out of philosophical type consideration. To a large degree this was just a game to you, though at times the sames lines of thought provided support against your suffering. Thats all fine and good.

Then you took mushrooms and became unhappy. You had an extremely different experience, and suddenly the philosophical dialogue can't stop and no longer supports you against suffering. You perceive your way of life as having been taking by a sort of supreme destroyer.

One thing I noticed is that you repeated consider mushrooms or the effect of the last trip to be devastatingly permanent. Your statement "I feel I've seen such horror that I'll never recover" admits that you feel there is something supreme to that experience that won't come to and end. I think you need to remind yourself that mushrooms are just a drug with a relatively short duration of affect (less than one day). Now there has been a long-lasting effect, but that is not the drug. What you're experiencing now is a whole bunch of concerns and negative thoughts, out of a proportion with what you're used to.

Thoughts in your mind will echo and will naturally flow into other thoughts. But, the mushrooms are over. The painful, direct exposure that you felt, is over. Fear and concern are natural patterns of thought which typically serve to protect us from pain. However they've become out of proportion for you and so they are no longer beneficial. Realize that the concrete problems you face now, though real and severe, are nothing you couldn't deal with before and are nothing you can't deal with now. To cultivate a healthy mindset, you need to stop focusing on the fear and stop prioritizing the lines of thought that cause you this suffering as fear. You have likely observed that thoughts are a passing thing, and that the persistence comes through one thought leading to another. This connection of thoughts though is directed by your attention, and it is your focus that compels some thoughts to propagate while others fade from your attention.

The next time these feelings creep in, try this exercise in shifting your focus towards discovering a beneficial reaction from the fear. That is the natural and intended result of fear. The first thing you can do is list those fears, all of them, in a notebook. It is ok to list the same fear twice in different forms, you are trying to represent not just the general concern but the specific aspect of that concern which might concretely bother you. Also list some things which are important to you, like your job or your wife, that concretely affect your life in a positive way. Number each of things things, you will be coming back to each in this exercise.

Now go through the list of numbered items again. For the fears, write how the concretely hurt you (if its a general metaphysical fear, does it keep you awake so that you can't live normally? Does it mess up your diet?). Cross out those numbered where you are not able to determine how they concretely affect your life in a negative way, they will not be reconsidered for the duration of this exercise. For the numbered items you wrote which were not fears but just generally beneficial things, write how they concretely improve the quality of your life.

Now go over each numbered item again, and for each item which is not crossed off, identify a concrete action you can take to improve that situation. If the numbered item was a fear, the concrete action should reduce the fear or one of the negative side effects of the fear. For the numbered beneficial items, the action should help perpetuate those beneficial state of affairs, or attenuate the benefit you get out of them. For those numbered items where you were not able to come up with a concrete action, cross it out it will not be reconsidered for the rest of this exercise.

Now go over each numbered item again, comparing just the concrete actions you identified for each. Pick out the best in terms of easy of completion and magnitude of effect. If any actions are listed twice, that action is to be prefered. At this point your sifting a plan of things to do in the near future.

Okay, thats basically the whole exercise. One important aspect of it is focus- by listing the items once, you are not going through constantly reconsidering these things in your head for an indefinate amount of time. You are also identifying those things you can improve, and shifting focus away from those which you can not control, or which only have an imaginary negative effect. Also you are creating an action plan which, if you follow, will probably lead you to future success. If you get stuck, send me the list you have so far in a PM. Maybe even if you're not stuck I can make other suggestions. If you end up crossing out everything on your list, you are stuck again so send me the list in a PM.

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OfflineAlobar
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shro [Re: lucid]
    #1431690 - 04/05/03 04:00 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Yiza yeah, man. Isolate them thar fears, and then tackle 'em! Yer the man, fear ain't got nothin' on you! And try to laugh about it all... Remember humor? It's the only thing that keeps us going, keeps us "sane." Unravel that mortal coil and use it as a whip. Put on some cowboy boots with spurs and say "Yee-haw, baby! Got-damn dem dar shit, telly-hoot, ye know?" and shake yer hips and do a little jig and kick up some dust and end it all with a good fat splat o' spit, right thar in the dirt, and then look at it with yer neck stretched and yer hand scratchin' yer chin with one eye squintin'... That thar's some spit. Yes indeed.
I be reailzin' that it's easier said than done, mm-hmm, but what you gotta do is remember the one thing that you never forgot... Pick yer nose every once in a while! Them nasal cavity thangs are... Oh. Excuse me. As I was sayin', try and make an effort not to take yer self so seriously. Easier said than done, for sure. I myself have one hell of a time... But take solice in the fact that yer nothin' but a hair on the broad shoulders of the stinky three-hundred pound linebacker that is the universe... And remember also that yer not just the hair, yer the follicle, too, and perhaps you're capable of growing somethin' beautiful afterall, albeit the fact that yer growin' on a hulking beast of a man... All those zits and moles surrounding you, covered in sweat and a thin film of something resembling cheese, don't worry about them, even if the effluvium aint to yer liking... And all that cholesterol flowin' beneath the surface, making things a little tight.... Well, hey. Builds character, right? A deprivation of the right nutrients can bring many blessings.... This is getting out of hand.
Just make an effort to smile, okay? Soon the effort will feel more natural, but you have to try! Depression is a very attractive venue. Don't give in to it's satisfying juices-- there's a more pleasurable world waiting just around the corner!
Have fun,
M.

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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shro [Re: Alobar]
    #1432067 - 04/05/03 06:40 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

/me gives lucid a big hug.

Quote:

Not sure what to do... to give myself up to these crazy thoughts/feelings and just hope that somehow, by watching them, they're run out of gas/dissappear/lose momentum, OR if I should try to discipline my mind and keep vigilant control and try to steer my mind from these thoughts and instill positive thoughts




Hey. From my personal experience with depression and from what I have learned studying depression ( I'm working in research on dep, and writing a thesis about it) the second way is definately the way to go. The mind is geared to focus on stuff that is making us anxious. It's a survival mechanism so that you focus on the problem of a bear entered your cave and run away. So you may have some trouble not focusing on the anxious thoughts. If so, try and dispute them first. Find reasons as if you are arguing with someone else as to why the problem is not permanent (eg. other people have experienced the same thing and got better), pervasive (you were OK before the trip, there have been times since when you havent felt quite so bad, I have gotten out of negative situations before), personal (other people have experienced this, I am a strong person etc). Then put off thinking about whatever till eg. 10 minutes at 9-30 that evening, and if you do, telll yourself STOP. If there are thoughts that keep popping up, dispute those too. This is where your ideas about the subjective nature of reality can help you. We have thousands of experiences in our lives. If you are down, chances are you are unfairly focusing on the negative ones. The negative thoughts you throw at yourself may be just as valid as some abuse a drunk on the street may yell at you. Chances are there are lots of positive experiences you have had as well, and you need to use these of evidence of what else is and what you are capable of.

Rumination makes your mood worse. Your mind actually does a better job of becoming rational about stuff, if you let your unconscious do the processing while you are not thinking about it.

The technique I described works and if you use it, you will begin to notice a change in your mood. Meditation is also a good idea. It is hard while you have lots of thoughts, but gradually, it will become easier. Also dont be too afraid of drugs, if you are feeling it is all too much. They can give you a "chemical kick". And it wouldn't be forever.


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.

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Offlineska8ball
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shro [Re: enotake2]
    #1433222 - 04/06/03 10:27 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

i may not be right but what i can see is that you have a fear of loosing controll of your mind... maybe because your whole life you have been controlling your emotions and not letting them flow... i belive we have sadness because it needs to be felt but i belive we have it also so we can appreciate happiness. Your constant need to be happy did not allow you to flow with life correctly (in my oppion) but created the facade that life should be lived this way. TO an extent ignorance is bliss however, now you are no longer ignorant and you should see that reality is only in the eyes of the beholder... life is a subjective thing that is different for everybody so reality is only what you perceive - i believe as long as im conscious im in reality because what experience is only in our minds(senses are information to the mind our computer). My friend went through a similar thing and conquered it with this thought... i have had a bad trip by using this philosophy to over come it, if u dont belive anything is wrong there wont be - the mind is more powerful than you think because honestly what is wrong? the fact that ur mind believes that there is something wrong...i don't know if this helped but i tried..


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shro [Re: ska8ball]
    #1434398 - 04/06/03 08:58 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Wow djfrog, great post.

The night of my bad trip, i had definate feelings of losing control, like i couldnt keep my head together. That fear stemmed out from all of my problems and what i had to deal with to get over it.


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This is the only time I really feel alive.

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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shro [Re: baraka]
    #1434635 - 04/06/03 09:58 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

I wish I never did shrooms, now they show me the bad side of things.


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"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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InvisibleXibalba
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shro [Re: downforpot]
    #1436851 - 04/07/03 04:58 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

>I wish I never did shrooms, now they show me the bad side of things.

If you think of the psychedelic experience in terms of cognitive liberty, might the old saying about those who would trade liberty for security apply here?

"Cognitive security" is a state most easily attained by denial or ignorance (which, as the even older saying goes, is bliss.) So if you don't want to be shown the bad side of things, by all means do not eat mushrooms. Find a nice dogma structure to devote your life to, preferably one that promises eternal paradise and has all the answers you need available in one book.

The harder path to take is to acknowledge that there is bad stuff- maybe even more of it than good stuff- find your own reasons to live and be happy in spite of it all.
Suffering balances out joy but does not negate it. The joy is still there.
However, to completely remove the suffering will negate the joy- because the only way that will happen is death.
So a mix of pain and pleasure (as our lives always are) is preferable to no feeling at all.
Or maybe just the desire to see all that can be seen is enough. (In the ironic words of our oppressors, "Scientia Est Potentia.")

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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shro [Re: Xibalba]
    #1436873 - 04/07/03 05:06 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

i have no idea what the fuck you just said.


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"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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OfflineAlobar
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shro [Re: Xibalba]
    #1436969 - 04/07/03 05:40 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Nice post.
I was asked in my British Literature class today, "Why does Milton begin Paradise Lost with Satan and his army, and not Adam/Eve or God.  Why does God allow Evil to exist?"  I assumed that my prof. desired an answer from a Christian perspective.... And he cut me off when I went into the whole "balance" idea...  So I hurried up and said hey, "The good is so much more satisfying when knowing about the alternative..."  That brought on a nice little debate. :wink: 

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OfflineTripOnIn
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid]
    #1439694 - 04/08/03 02:27 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

One thing to keep in mind is that your consiousness, has the ability to re-kindle the old you simply by calling on an uncousnious memory. As a religious person, simply have faith that you can overcome this confusion. Although reality is definatly questionable, the one thing to keep in mind is that YOU, and YOU alone create this reality. It is up to you to see yourself in the world around you (people, places, things). It is up to you to find an interest in things that once toyed with your curiosity. It is up to you to think a little less, and find something fun, forget about how it's spose to feel, and just everything wash over you as you drift through it. This life is like a movie

"Be a spectator"-Jesus

Child in a cage

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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid]
    #1451647 - 04/11/03 06:02 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

have you ever read Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoyevsky? Have you ever seen the movie, What Dreams May Come? it might give you a second thought about Your Thoughts. Maybe there are things from the past that have been on a train heading for this point in your life, and maybe you just stumbled. and you need to pick yourself back up.

I know this is what ive been trying to do for the past 2 years now. and the following and previous is how i feel i relate to your situation. i hope it might give you a second thought.
-----------
alluding to literature:

There is a quote in Crime and Punishment where a character is in dialogue talking about a new psychological therapy where logical argument was used to cure mental ailments. It was believed by one psychologist that no one was really crazy, but for some reason or another they just didnt understand the world. locked on the wrong path. Their constant view of chaos only further distorted their ability to rationalize the world around them.
----------

Trying to Remember each moment is a chance to turn your life completely around. That it may be rough, and get more rough, but thinking of it just as a new beginning. That its just a part of your life, and your going through a hard time are just some of the things that have helped bring me back around.

Island by aldous huxely was a wonderful book. and has taught me some things about excersized i could. For instance , If you ever think it gets too much and your in fear, you can just make that fear grow as fast and as much as you can. but in doing that you realize that its not so bad, and eventually you will stop thinking about it. because when it comes back around its dilluded by your maximizing its consitancy. weeding out the fear.

and there isnt much anyone can say that will help you out with it. its your subjective universe your in. just try to take it one day at a time. Ive tried not to resist things, because when you resist and fear thats when you get scared and sad and think about suicide. you just lock yourself into those thoughts.


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What?

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Offlinejorneyer
Stranger

Registered: 04/12/03
Posts: 12
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1453981 - 04/13/03 12:11 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Lucid;
I read your posts and am concerned... but not too much. It is clear that the shrooms have activated stuff that you have been burying. Ultimately they are a healing plant, given by God. If you are having trouble then you are going through a painful HEALING.
Another way to look at this is that you are enduring the "Dark night of the soul" which all spiritual seekers undergo eventually. You seem to have noticed that your problem stems from the incessant jabbering in your head. What is really happening is your Ego is dissolving. You are just stuck halfway. Good thing you got here for help the rest of the way.
Now, I want you to go back out to the lake where you stored up some power before. Bring any supplies which would seem positive. You will need to sit in meditation, maybe a few times. As you sit, just let be. Just be there, with no expectation and no judgement. You must dismantle your ego. This is difficult as you probably know because your ego thinks it is you. That is why you are having trouble right now, the real you is emerging, and the ego is resisting. Now, if you can just sit and *be* then you will soon see that you are separate from the jabbering in your head. You are observing the noise, the negative talk, but it is not YOU. You exist above and around that voice... it is contained in you.
But it thinks it is bigger than you... and you have believed it. That is why you need to sit, just sit and allow that calmness and space to come. Then you will be able to see that you are bigger and stronger than that negative voice in your head.
Good luck

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Offlinejorneyer
Stranger

Registered: 04/12/03
Posts: 12
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: jorneyer]
    #1454662 - 04/13/03 12:04 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Give us a word, Lucid... we are worried about you
It's been 2 weeks since you posted

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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: jorneyer]
    #1454884 - 04/13/03 03:34 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Hi Everyone,
Much much thanks to *everyone* for their kind words, adivce, inspiration and hope ! I'm still hanging in there (bad choice of words for a paranoid suicidal depressive nut ;-)
I've been put on meds and have started to see a psychologist, but I think the most help has come from people on this forum. I can't believe that people have been kind enough to take out the time to actually reply to me and try to help me (which is much more than what I can say for all the docs I've been to so far). I'm still very paranoid about imminent insanity, but I'm starting to feel slightly better than before. I've gained a *lot* of weight tho (20 Ibs) which has made me bit more depressed, but honestly, I'm not that concerned (if I can just get some level of mental stability back in my life and start to function I'll be happy). I don't have anyone to talk to (and I mean that litterally) since I just moved up to this city a couple of months ago and was just starting to settle in when I had the shroom nightmare. I've started meditating again and have been using all the techniques that people suggested here (listing my fears, trying to exagerate them in my mind, watching my thoughts, becomming present, etc) and put together they seem to have some helpful effect. It's just become a struggle to preserve basic mental and worldly functions.Unfortunately, I'm also starting to run out of money and my family is in no position to help me so I'm starting to worry about that too. But my priority is to get better first - somehow. Sometimes the depression is unbearable and all I can think about is swallowing the extensive benzo collection I've accumulated over time, but at least there seem to be fleeting moments (ever so brief) where I think "maybe this isn't permanent and I'll get through this depression and horror and be my old self again". I can't describe how terrible my depression is most of the times - I just feel like there's *absolutely nothing* that I could even imagine that would make me happy... utter dispair and hopelessness... even flowers seem hostile. It's becomming difficult to imagine why I used to mediate for days by the lake or stare enraptured at the beauty of flowers and the little things in life - but I must have found some joy in it since I do remember doing those things. I feel hollow from the inside now. Lifeless, bereft of joy. This has become my constant state. I walk out and I see most people smiling and I wonder "why are they smiling"... I can still smile, but it's only because I still remember how to make the facial expression... there doesn't seem to be any feeling behind the smile. I've obsessively been reading about bad trip reports on the net which only makes it worse - got to stop doing that, but I read somewhere that over 10 million people in the U.S. have taken shrooms (and many millions world wide), so I'm hoping that the number of people permenantly messed up by extreemly low doses of shrooms are extreeemly rare (need to get some statistics on my side, something to give me hope). I'll keep writing back to let everyone know how things are going. Thank u all sooo much for your kindness, support and friendship :-)


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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