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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms
    #1421156 - 04/01/03 08:24 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Hi Everyone
I desperately need help... :-(
I've never been a frequent drug user - only used pot a couple of times in the past which a friend gave to me, who swore to the deeply spiritual effect of the weed. The same friend gave me some shrooms. I never asked for em - he said they would "increase the is-ness of things" - he also said that they were virtually non-toxic... of course he forgot to mention that they can permanently screw up your mind and lead you to inexplicibale mental horrors and ultimately suicide :-( I took only 2 capsules (2 grams of Psilocybe Stropharia cubensis) about 3 weeks ago. I had the most nightmarish time of my life :-( no hallucinations or auditory distortions, but extreeeeme, horrifying paranoia... I thought my mind was going to collapse, that I would go insane and would see nothing but horrifying immages for the rest of my life (even if I fell asleep, went into a coma or died). To my horror the feelings have persisted for about a month now :-(

I've always been a happy person, smiling through the toughest times of my life. I was always a happy kid too despite family troubles. My wife walked out on me a little over a year ago, my parents became homeless and moved in with me, and I lost 2 jobs in the last year and yet... I remained happy through seemingly terrible times. I've been meditating for most of my life and firmly believe that all things good and worth having - joy, happiness, love, compassion - are to be found inside of each of us. I've never been drawn to materialistic things, not because I think that they're bad in any way, but I simply never found any joy in them. My happiest moments have been meditating by a lake or on a hilltop, in sheer extascy and rapture (In keeping with the mind-identification theme from Fight Club...I was Jack's Spirtual bliss). I always used to wonder why people get depressed - this was a terrible thing I did... I judged... I thought that people just need to "be happy". After taking the shrrooms I've plunged into the depths of hell myself :-( I get utterly terrible panic attacks lasting hours (6-7 hours at times, if not entire days). I feel like any minute I'll go insane and will start to see horrific images/sounds. Everything around me (that I used to consider exquisitly beautiful) now seems baren and hostile :-( The shrroom has turned my very soul inside out. I feel I've seen such horror that I'll never recover. I had never known such horror before - i.e. I never thought the mind could come up with such dreadful ideas and attack itself so relentlessly... but I guess at some level I must have, since the shroom can't create anything new in the mind. Reading bad trip reports and permanent psychosis reports from shrooms is what really spurred the bad thoughts - now I really believe I'm going to rot in hell :-( I've gotten extreemly suicidal as a result - only because I'm in soo much agony :-( I wish I could be my old happy self again,
I wish I hadn't taken it, I wish I could take time back, but I can't. "I am Jack's regret"...

I used to read a lot of Castenada, Philosophy, Spirituality and now all of that (which I used to cherish and view as wisdom) is comming back to haunt me... I keep questioning Reality and really freak out at times. My mind attacks me with ideas like, "is this real ?", "what if the only reality is horror ?" and terrible things like that. The constant questioning of Reality thows me into the depths of hellish fear.
I keep telling myself to think positive... "Ignore this terrible drug ("Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas"). I've also tried shutting off my internal dialogue, which can be tough to do, but even when I do acheive a certain level of menatal quietitude, it can have varying effects (i.e. at times I still feel anxious and depressed despite the absense of thoughts).
When ever I manage to head outside I see that most people seem to be happy and are smiling... I wish I was normal, I wish I could replug myself back into the Matrix, wish I could lead a relatively happy Zombie-like existance like most normal people do. I didn't go to work for a week and show up late everyday and keep running away frequently when the panic gets too bad... it's only a matter of time till I lose this job :-( But the job isn't that important, I'll just be happy if I could simply not be in pain anymore (I don't care if I'm jobless or homeless, just need to stop the pain).

I went to the ER after the shrroom and then to a private doc and they simply prescribed Ativan and Paxil respectively and gave me no time at all to listen to what I was going through and how I felt. Typical doc solution... here's a pill. I havn't taken either yet, I want to do this without more drugs, I want to be my old happy self again, I want to erase this memory from my mind so I never even know that such terror exists. I don't want to have to battle this for the rest of my life (and I don't want to end my life either - but if it comes down to it, suggestions for painlessly departing from this extreeemly painful existance would be *greatly* appreciated).
I can't run from my own mind... "where ever I go there I am..."


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid]
    #1421217 - 04/01/03 09:20 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

the only option i see here is to ask God for help... :cool: 


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InvisibleKOPELANDIAA
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid]
    #1421222 - 04/01/03 09:25 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

...wow, it seems that you weren't a so happy person finally ? I think (but just my two cents, i'm not psychiatrist) that you deliberately putted all your troubles (familly, etc) in the background, in your mental trashcan where you thinked it will let you in peace...but there is no deal like that with the shrooms, they show you what you are and they want you to be mature. In my opinion, you must not regret to have taken those shrooms ( iknow i know, i'm not in your situation).
Now, what you have to do ( ithink) is to take all this shitty stuff like you must have read in Castanedas...it's a challenge ! The shrooms showed you a reality, a part of a reality in fact, maybe a side of you that you always refused to see...i think that now you deeply understood the horror, but this horror is not all, there is millions of realities and know you have to come back or rediscover the other side: the beauty, the bliss, the joy, the love wich enlight everything...you can do it because love is every where...even in the heart of the horror...
Remember Don Juan's words: fear is the first challenge. Of course there is maybe a neurological problem with you (persistence of symptoms, etc) but i'm sure you'll won after all because you seems to be good minded (and my english is awfuuuull)...well don't know what to say else but just keep in mind that the shrooms are not an awfull drug and that you had this experience because you HAD to. Nobody can tell why but it's like that, don't regret it, it's past, now think about the learning and the meaning of all this mess...why did the mushrooms showed you that ? Maybe you have to rediscover the light now...hmm
I don't know what you exactly must do, i'm not a specialist and not in your mind...
As for me, i'll fight against the fear and myself....i'll take another shrooms...but i can't be sure that is the good advice or not ! It's the way to fight fear and phobia .
Maybe a psychanalyse would be good for you too if there is still some hided events in your subconscious wich are doing this hell that made you posting here...
I hope i wasn't too confuse and, most of all, that it helps a little !
Anyway i'm 100% sure that you'll not be stucked in this forever...cause i can FEEL it !
Good luck and tell us informed


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Anonymous #1

Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid]
    #1421238 - 04/01/03 09:41 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

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OfflineAislingGheal
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shro [Re: lucid] * 1
    #1421303 - 04/01/03 10:50 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)


Just hang in there, you have friends here, people who are willing to help. Mushrooms can act as an amplifier of the inner condition, any unresolved conflicts in the subconscious can be highlighted during the psychedelic experience. On the bright side this is an opportunity to deal with things and reintegrate as a better, stronger person.

You're into philosophy and spirituality? Read the book "The Problem of Pain" by C.S. Lewis, this can be helpful to you. Is there anyone close to you that you trust, who is kind and understanding? Share your problems with them and get some feedback, nothing helps like a kind soul who has been there. Anyone who has spent time in self reflection comes up against the problem of pain and a realization that their understanding of reality is incomplete. This is the impulse that has driven forward the greatest minds in philosophy and religion. Just remember that you are not alone, that you have a part to play in this world, this reality, and that in itself is important. Reality is a many faceted jewel, each facet shows a piece of the whole, we ourselves are like this. Just don't stay stuck in a particular facet, strive to see the whole picture. Pain can be a teacher, fear is short-lived. How can I say this? Because hope and love exist as well.

I'm sure I speak for many here when I say that if you need help just let me know, I'll do my best. Keep us posted.




--------------------

"I hate having to pick between the lesser of two evils. But I'm glad Obama was elected. McCain was another war monger. I'd rather deal with our country going into debt than trying to take on afghanistan...oh wait FUCK!" - Fungus_tao


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid]
    #1421404 - 04/01/03 12:11 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Seek the help of a mental professional. This is the best advice you are going to get. They CAN help you.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineAislingGheal
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shro [Re: Phluck]
    #1421530 - 04/01/03 02:11 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)


I have to agree with Phluck that the first thing is to seek professional help. I truly meant what I wrote earlier but I'm no professional, Phluck's advice is best.


--------------------

"I hate having to pick between the lesser of two evils. But I'm glad Obama was elected. McCain was another war monger. I'd rather deal with our country going into debt than trying to take on afghanistan...oh wait FUCK!" - Fungus_tao


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InvisibleBuddha5254
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shro [Re: AislingGheal]
    #1421620 - 04/01/03 05:17 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Dude, PLEASE read my Private Message I sent you. Go see a therapist not a doctor.


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OfflineEightball
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid]
    #1421639 - 04/01/03 05:26 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

sounds like you had a scary trip and had quite a bit of post tramatic stress. my sugestion would be to try it again with someone experienced who can talk you through any problems that surface.


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


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Invisibleslppe
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid]
    #1422179 - 04/02/03 03:28 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)



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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: slppe]
    #1422602 - 04/02/03 09:27 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Hi Everone,
I'm still in *very* bad shape, but the
extreemly kind and supportive words from this
message board have really helped. I was
surprised that so many people have responded.
I can't seem to get help from anyone in the
community and can't really afford to see
a therapist (I live in Montreal, Canada but
therapy is the one thing NOT covered by insurance :-(
arn't I lucky ?!

Not sure what to do anymore...very skeptical
about trying anything "alternative"...that's how I got into
this horrible nightmare in the first place... by
trying to make myself a better person by taking
psycoactive substances. Perhaps I should have
just resorted to standard techniques the way
"normal" people do (at least most of the people
I see on the street don't appear to be in
constant agony and seem to be able to cope with
work very well - much, much better than I seem to
be doing). On the other hand "standard techniques"
don't seem to help me at all (in fact made things
worse) when my ex left (the writings of Castenada,
Eckhart Tolle, and Krishnamurthi yanked me right out
of that)... so I'm not sure about
anything anymore - constant doubt... not sure who
to believe, who to trust... I know one things for
sure... I should *never* have taken the shrrooms.
I also keep getting *very darn* unlucky :-( I've
been reading of people who very transformed
extreeemly positively after taking shrroooms
(became amazing artists, amazing scientists etc).
Most of these people had very positive people they
were around when they tripped... in my case, I had
a friend on the line who used to be extreemly
depressive and kept telling me that I've always
been anxious and depressive (I tried to IM other
friends but they were busy, I also tried to call a therapist
friend but couldn't get through). Then my parents
kept telling me that all I needed to do was to
EAT ! that would solve all my problems... now I've
gained about 25 Ibs... that combined with Castenada
(worst of all) and "Reality questioning" has made
for a "fabulous" experience :-((
All I ever wanted was a bit of peace and happiness
and to be a slightly better person (i.e. work better
and perhaps be able to help others more and need
even less myself). Also my mom is the God of Fear installation
(as much as I love her and as much as I recognize
that she's just been trying to help me through this)...
she told me to STOP READING ALL THIS NONESENSE immediately
and to keep myself busy (not bad advice but sounds like she's
advocating constantly running away...). I told her about
NO-MIND meditation and she sez it's "DANGEROUS !"
I asked her about Magnesium supplements and she sez it's "DANGEROUS !!"
everything she doesn't know about is "DANGEROUS !"
(and she's a Doctor btw)
I feel I need help, and I'm getting plenty, but what
I'm not getting is "the RIGHT KIND OF help". I wish I
knew where I could get that (of course I realize part
of that is within me). I need to talk to someone, I need
help NOW (timely help is the key to preventive terrible
things in medicine) but I can't seem to find any... perhaps
if I had gotten help soon after I started freaking out
after the shrroom I wouldn't be in this terrible state
today and would be an extreemly creative scientist (but who's to say)...
feel like GOD himself has abandoned me :-(
My parents are almost as dysfunctional as I am,
my Dad is extreeeemly anxious and is constantly
fidgiting and switching channels (I don't do this
but my anxiety manifests itself differently - i.e obsessing
about terrible thoughts and going insane), and my
mom is constantly PARANOID and AFRAID, she thinks
my dad will steal all her things and kill her and
keeps her doors bolted twice.
My dad smashed our computer monitor once when I was
a kid because he said that we (kids) broke the
lid on the on/off button... my parents have been
fighting *viciously* (I mean it litterally) every
since I can remmember.
BUT, at least they seem to be coping with thier life situations.
I was always the calm peaceful center of our home, and
my brother hated that - he wanted me to be badly affected
by what was going on in our home.

I took the shrooms when I was feeling a bit down
(had had a lousy day at work) and then things just
went insane. It was the first time I took a "leap of faith"
- i.e. I just took the shrrooms on my friends recommendation
without reading up on them first (I didn't even know about
this web site before). I've almost *never* done this in the
past, I believe in taking very informed decisions and generally
research even vitamins thoroughly before taking em. It's not
like I'm a shrroom head, I just took them once unwittingly,
I feel like it was an accident (like taking a wrong turn, colliding
with an 18 wheeler and being crippled for life) but I realize
that it was my responsibility (but one must take some risks in life,
unfortunately mine turned out to be disasterous).
If anyone knows of support or therapists who might make
concessions or just people I could talk with in Montreal
I'd really appreciate it.
BTW, AslingGheal the suggestion for reading "The Problem of Pain" was
excellent ! I've been reading teh rreviews on Amazon and it seems
like a very helpful book.
And much thanks to KOPELANDIAA for the kind words and most
of all for having faith that I'll pull through this !
Some people
have suggested that "well I guess u weren't so happy before after all
before the shrooom"
i.e. I had simply "convinced myself that I was happy"... hmmm... well I wonder
how that's different from "actually being happy" ? perhaps the latter
implies a materialistic link - i.e. "one can only be happy when they
get a million dollars"... If I had simply "convinced myself that I was
happy" in the past, then I sure wish I could do it again cause it
used to feel great !
I am Jack's anxious ramblings...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid]
    #1422863 - 04/02/03 12:24 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

wow, rough ride...
there are a few "shrinks" out there who have worked (and done some tripping themselves) with psychedelics & helped patients/clients come out the other side of "chapel perilous"...
canadian dr abram hoffer (do a web search for some of his books & stuff: some possible keywords might include: orthomolecular psychiatry; megavitamin therapy; schizophrenia & niacinamide)
czech dr stanislav grof (now in california?) (websearch words: spiritual crisis intervention; spiritual emergence network; psychospiritual counseling; psychedelic crisis intervention)
u.s. psychedelic therapists robert masters & jean houston
...
the "quick & easy fix" may not work for everyone (based on some of dr hoffer's 50 years of studies including work with alcoholics (& lsd therapy), mentally ill patients (esp schitzies, treating with niacin or niacinamide at first, then branching out to include zinc, vit B6, nadh, vit C, etc... & psychedelic "freakouts" (& non-freakouts - hoffer & fellow doc humphrey osmond turned aldous huxley on the mescaline back in the mid-50s)
it won't cost you more than a few dollars to purchase a bottle of niacinamide capsules or pills at the pharmacy or healthfood store, and it is quite possible that taking 100 - 250 mg 3 or 4 times per day with meals could cause a noticable decrease in your post-trip angst within a few days
(note: the form aof B3 called niacin will also work, but causes a disconcerting bodily sensation called "flushing" where your skin looks very red sometimes, and feels incredibly hot & itchy due to a marked vasodilation of skin capillaries -- it won't "hurt" you but it feels super tingly...)
~
good luck with re-establishing a comfortable relationship with "reality"...
~
prayer, meditiation, hypnosis, guided imagery, even exorcism are all possibilities, but i consider large doses of vitamin B3 to be relatively non-invasive & worth the miniscule investment...
~
hang in there & let us know how things are going...
be well...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Anonymous #1

Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid]
    #1424581 - 04/02/03 11:56 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

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InvisibleKOPELANDIAA
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: ]
    #1424606 - 04/03/03 12:03 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

COURAGE !!!
I'm sure the end of this bad trip is near, believe me !


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InvisibleXibalba
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: KOPELANDIAA]
    #1424897 - 04/03/03 01:27 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)


The number one thing you have to do is to stop talking/ thinking about being "permanently screwed up" or "crippled for life," because it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

People who have frequent panic attacks are only afraid of having another panic attack, and that fear is what causes them. You're going crazy and getting paranoid and living in fear of going crazy and getting paranoid and living in fear. If you can see this is irrational and ironic, you're getting better- and if you can actually find it funny, you're going to be fine.

Sit down during one of your more calm, rational times and try to figure out what you are so afraid of, what exactly is wrong in your life- and then what you intend to do about it.

What if reality isn't real... What if, indeed? Well, then we're all off the hook, aren't we? So might as well try to have some fun while you're here. There are valid things to get depressed and terrified over, and metaphysics isn't one of them.
If I explained my personal worldview to most people, they'd wonder how I can believe all that and not kill myself. Yeah, life's fucked up. For the most part I don't let it get to me, because it's not like I can change the nature of human existence. I can, however, find things to make me smile.

You want to 'erase this memory from your mind.' Which is a natural impulse but it's the wrong thing to do. You need to deal with it, learn from it, overcome it- that may take a while, but it won't take the rest of your life, the way trying to supress it would.

And I also think this is a case of a lot of bad stuff in your life being "de-repressed" all at once- you've had a pretty traumatic and dysfunctional family life, and while you say you never let it affect you, I think you've just got really good at hiding your feelings from yourself.
You talk about "no-mind meditation" "shutting off your internal dialogue..." looking for happiness inside yourself, and alone out in nature- all those sound good, but they also suggest some degree of withdrawal from social reality.

If 2 grams of mushrooms was all it took to knock down your entire reality, it must have been a pretty flimsy structure to begin with.

If you are able to stop thinking about this as the terrible mistake that ruined your life and start thinking about it as the point where you had to reassess all your assumptions, confront your weaknesses and begin fixing yourself- that too will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Just my un-qualified non-medical opinion, but hope I made some sense to you.

Do find another shrink who is willing to talk to you about all this stuff rather than just dispensing a drug. Know that you can take the Paxil and it probably will make what you are feeling now go away- certainly try that, at least, before quitting your job or killing yourself.


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OfflineFliquid
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid]
    #1425202 - 04/03/03 03:22 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I would think the best way to resolve it would be to try again, but this time with someone you trust fully. Who has good experience. And giving into the feeling can help also. You were holding back to much. Which builds up pressure. Like fear, if you never face it. It will become larger and larger. Till it eats you up.

For anyone who doesn't agree, this is my opinion. And i believe it will help MUCH better then any pill or doc. Since you (Lucid) were a selfresolving person before, you will have to resolve it again. A very big sub problem was awakened. NOW FACE IT, or live with it for a very long time.

Be strong, no fear! Fuck fear! We only need it in REAL dangerous situations.
Most of us here have used shrooms, and can tell you "its not a dangerous situation". Its a direct contact with you.

I'll stop now before this becomes to large for anyone to even try and read it...  :grin: 


--------------------
:dancing: My latest music! :yesnod:


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Offlinefoghorn
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: Fliquid]
    #1427773 - 04/04/03 04:19 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

hey.. i know this sounds like a stupid/trivial solution for your troubles lucid, but i suggest physical activity to help clear up your head and get yourself back on track

if there are any sports or just outdoor stuff you can get yourself into, you'll feel alot better mentally and physically having gone out and done something active, even if its just for an hour

i am just speaking from experience - and i know sports are probably the last thing on your mind right now, but i know it always brings me up when im down to play a pickup game of basketball with a few friends..

regardless of weather or not you do/can take my advice, i hope you feel better soon

take it easy


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OfflinePedM
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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid] * 1
    #1428748 - 04/04/03 02:07 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Lucid,

When I was much younger, I, like yourself,  imbibed some mushrooms without really knowing what I was doing.  I had a wonderful time, but shortly after the experience some very unsettling problems began to manifest.  To make a long story short, within a year I was diagnosed with schizophrenia (no particular brand thereof), and was on a regime of hefty antipsychotic drugs.  It's important that you do not assume you're on that path.

Having direct experience in "the system" of psychiatry, I must offer you some advice on the matter.

Some people here have told you bluntly to seek professional help. In my opinion, that is something you should pursue with a great deal caution.  The field of psychiatry has an extremely narrorow approach to treating the human mind.  Instead of treating the patient, they often treat the patient's symptoms, and even more often they categorize both the symptoms and the patients into poorly defined diagnoses.  Very rarely is any effort undertaken to find the cause of the problem. 

You feel unhealthy, but you seem pretty grounded and aware of your situation nonetheless.  Before seeking professional help, ask yourself these questions:

1) Am I continuing to deteriroate?
2) Am I a danger to myself?
3) Am I a danger to other people?
4) Is my ability to function in life severely impaired?

If you answered yes to any of those, then of course find a professional.  It's very important, though, that you educate yourself about what you are pursuing.  Don't take a prescription because the doctor says so.  Find out exactly what the medication does, how it does it, and what side effects and dangers it carries.  Always be exploring other avenues of treatment.

Educate yourself on the mind, on psychology, on spirituality.  Learn how the mind responds to certain circumstances, and pair those circumstances with reactions you're experiencing.  Search for the cause of your problem.  Always ask why.

It's through repeating all of those steps that I managed to pull myself back onto my feet, rid myself of daily medications, and build up enough mental discipline to cope with that which I couldn't.  Avenues that helped me include cognitive behavioral therapy, homeopathy, cranial sacral therapy, and endless study.  The biggest hinderence to my wellness I can honestly say were the medications that were supposed to make me well.  Don't look up to your psychiatrist. :smile:

After I managed to find my resolve, I weighed the risks and decided to try the mushrooms again.  Many good things followed.  There has been a far reaching positive impact on my life; the experience(s) benefit my arts, my speech, my day-day conduct.  Of course, I've not overcome the problems that put me in psychiatric care -- but I've found the drive and the objectivity to subdue, and eventually be rid of them.  Every day is progress.

Psychedelic drugs have this manner of taking a snapshot of time, a set of circumstances that were domininant at any given instant before the experience begins, and forcing them on you.  As an example, spilling a glass of juice prior to the beginning of the effects can destroy a person's experience.  Explore how you were feeling before the effects of the mushrooms began.  Some of your best insights will be there, I bet.

I find it interesting that your friend described mushrooms as enhancing the "is-ness" of things.  Gautama Buddha described the feeling of enlightenment as an "overwhelming suchness."

Good luck with everything.
         


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


Edited by Ped (04/04/03 02:14 PM)


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: Ped]
    #1429135 - 04/04/03 04:58 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Ped, You're post was extreeeemly encouraging. I was very impressed by how "together" your response seemed, both in content and tone.

basically, I would answer yes to all 4 questions
1) Am I continuing to deteriroate? yes
2) Am I a danger to myself? yes
3) Am I a danger to other people? I'm causing extreeme grief to my family
and loved ones by my psycho babble and talks of suicide
4) Is my ability to function in life severely impaired? yes, I just cut back to 1/2 time on my job due to inablity to function (as a software engineer I need my mind every minute, something I unfortunately don't seem to have anymore :-(

You're absolutely right about being aware of my situation tho... having read psychology, spirtiual texts, countless self help techniques, philosophy in the past has given me quite an insight into how my mind works (or at least I think I have an insight - not sure if there's a diff ;-) in fact, I think that might be part of the problem... i.e. everytime someone trys to help me including my own internal dialogue, I'm aware that it's "just a technique to try and help me" which kind of deflates it (i.e. nothing seems to "click" - i.e. no suggestion seems to come across as a revalation, my mind is starting to become immune to positive thoughts :-(
Also, I get caught up in existential/metaphysical debates in my mind which drives me further nuts (e.g. do I have free will ? i.e. how do I know I can even help myself or if I'm just doomed)... I think these are things the avg depressive/anxious person doesn't think about. My fears arn't "what if my friends laugh at me" they're more like "what if I'm just doomed to be in eternal pain and I have no choice in it ?"... "how do I know any joy even exists" very scary thoughts and not something that really have an answer... they're intractable problems of the mind. I'm also caught in *excessive* self doubt...I doubt everything, things people tell me, things I tell myself, reality itself...
This all stems from reading Castenada, crazy friends etc, and before the shroom it didn't seem like a big deal to question these things... I guess I never "really" questioned them, it was just "interesting thoughts" back then and then I would just go back to my regular happy life. If anything they were "exciting" adventerous thoughts - now they're frightning horrifying things that I obsess about. I've also been trying the "watching the thinker" techniques that many many mystic traditions (and even certain therapists) advocate - i.e. that "I am not my mind" I exist independent of my thoughts (in direct oposition to "I think therefore I am")... but I keep doubting that too... I feel like I have no stable ground to stand on anymore... nothing that I can say "this is for sure" and then build up on that... and I don't mean just saying it, I mean *really* knowing it without *any* doubt... something that I can use as a premise to ground myself in. Currently, I feel like "I am my mind... and my mind is hell... hence I'm in hell :-("
sounds insane doesn't it ? exactly, that's why I keep thinking I'm going insane :-( but I must somehow get rid of all this doubt and be sane again...be at peace.
It's encouraging to know that there's others out there who have battled the post-shrroomatic stress and managed to move on with their lives.

I don't want to kill myself, not really afraid to die, but the whole religious upbringing makes me fear that I *might* go to hell if I don't (wouldn't want to risk eternal pain)... see more fear...sigh the whole fear thing...
I wish all the prophets had said... "sure God will forgive everyone and everyone will live in peace forever..." that would have been pretty "neat" ;-)

Any further advice would be greatly appreciated !
Much thanks for your (and everyones) time to reply to me and to support me through this...
even tho my mind wants to reject what I'm going to say, I'll say it anyways... it's a
reminder that there's still good out there in the world... that good exists...:-)

I quite enjoyed the statement u quoted from the Buddha :-)


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Desperately need help :-( Freaked out a month after shrooms [Re: lucid]
    #1429150 - 04/04/03 05:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

btw, someone mentioned that I was a "self resolving" person in the past... this is extreeemly true... even when my wife left nothing anyone said to me made a diff (in fact it mostly made things worse). What really helped me back then was that I would go to a lake to mediate everyday and deliberatly think about what happened... to face it and try and deal with it... and I did this for almost 2 months and somehow it worked...
but the diff is that in the past I didn't have excessive doubt and I didn't think about crazy existential questions (i.e. I didn't think I was losing my mind in any way)... in fact I was convinced that by observing and thinking my mind would help me through the tough time. Unforunately, no I'm stuck in perpetual doubt of everything... that's what keeps me from freeing myself from this nightmarish loop of insane thought... sometimes I get so confused with my own thoughts that all thoughts cease (this is similar to Zen Koans where they deliberately do this to stop thoughts), and then I freak out even more thinking that I'm going to lose my mind... sigh... perhaps I can use this in a positive way somehow... stop all thought and become "enlightened" (which I'm hoping means the end of suffering - since that's all I care about now)...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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