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XUL
OTD Janitor



Registered: 03/16/05
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If a tree falls in the forest and no person or animal is around to hear it, then does it make a soun
#14210269 - 03/30/11 03:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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If a tree falls in the forest and no person or animal is around to hear it, then does it make a sound?
Somone posted this on facebook and a debate has started.
Such things were said:
-- Yea it does. You can record the sound with any modern day recording device
-- a tape recorder is a machine, not a "someone"
-- Yes but he is disputing the idea of whether or not a sound exists in time when a human or animal is not within range of that certain sound. Its trivial to acknowledge the fact that a recorder is a machine. We already know that. When he said "around" I am assuming he meant within range of sound (mechanical vibrations transmitted through an elastic medium) and time. Recording the sound by means of device is simply creating a record which indicates that the sound did indeed exist.
-- It does not make a sound, because sound is a perception, which is the interpretation by the brain of a sensory input.
-- Sound - mechanical vibrations transmitted through an elastic medium. Or, Sound is a sequence of waves of pressure that propagates through compressible media such as air or water.
-- wether or not its doesnt make sound because it is only a perception/interpretation of our brain.
-- I believe mechanical vibration implies not only that we may hear something but that we also may feel the vibrations.
What do you think??
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Superide
PROcrastinator


Registered: 01/19/11
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Re: If a tree falls in the forest and no person or animal is around to hear it, then does it make a soun [Re: XUL]
#14210310 - 03/30/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think I hate sayings like that.
Of course it makes a sound, a tree can't fall to the ground silently.
The whole argument arises from whether someone is around to hear it and the definition of sound
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Divinity
Wanderer of Paths



Registered: 11/17/09
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Re: If a tree falls in the forest and no person or animal is around to hear it, then does it make a soun [Re: Superide]
#14210383 - 03/30/11 04:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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regardless if a person is there to hear it or not, a tree makes the same sound it would if it would fall anyothertime
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STR80180
Stranger

Registered: 12/13/10
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Re: If a tree falls in the forest and no person or animal is around to hear it, then does it make a soun [Re: Superide]
#14210405 - 03/30/11 04:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It sure will make compression and rarefaction waves of air molecules but without an inner ear to turn those waves into brain signals their technically is no sound.
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XUL
OTD Janitor



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 28,261
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Re: If a tree falls in the forest and no person or animal is around to hear it, then does it make a soun [Re: STR80180]
#14210420 - 03/30/11 04:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
STR80180 said: It sure will make compression and rarefaction waves of air molecules but without an inner ear to turn those waves into brain signals their technically is no sound.
And these waves, are they vibrations? I was under the impression that vibrations could be felt without hearing them.
But then again im not an expert on sound.
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STR80180
Stranger

Registered: 12/13/10
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Re: If a tree falls in the forest and no person or animal is around to hear it, then does it make a soun [Re: XUL]
#14210578 - 03/30/11 04:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Compression and rarefaction waves aren't vibrations as such, it's more the airs reaction to vibration. Think of a speaker going in and out, when it pushes out the air molecules in front are compressed and when it pulls back the air molecules are rarefied and this energy is passed onto surrounding air molecules and it henceforth moves through the air at the speed of sound. Higher pitched sounds have many more compression and rarefaction cycles per second called Hertz (Hz) than bass sounds. These waves make their way into you ear where a piece of skin and some tiny hairs turn the differences in air pressure into brain signals
Low frequency sound will make things vibrate and you can physically it, hell sound waves behave like shock waves from 194 db up.
Dropping a pebble in water is a pretty good model for how sound travels
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest



Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: If a tree falls in the forest and no person or animal is around to hear it, then does it make a soun [Re: STR80180]
#14210669 - 03/30/11 05:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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There are two ways of looking at this question:
a) Definition of the universe = what we can determine through scientific enquiry. Sounds is not based on our ability to hear it. (Objective)
b) Definition of the universe = A sensory mind world which YOU are at the centre of. As far as you know for sure there is nothing other than this sensory world. In which case you have no idea whether it made a sound because you weren't there to hear it. IMO this is what the question is trying to get at however in this depiction the question is irrelevant anyway so the best answer is option "a)" and they ought to have made a better question to express the sentiment. (Subjective)
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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huxmush
Wanderer


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Re: If a tree falls in the forest and no person or animal is around to hear it, then does it make a soun [Re: Grapefruit]
#14216010 - 03/31/11 05:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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There's a third way of looking at this question:
c) Stop worrying about esoteric questions about other frames of reference and explore your own.
I used to get hung up on over-analysing this sort of stuff, but you end up in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Heck, I'm still trying to get over the potential hidden meaning in these 3 words:
"Does it matter?"
or its inverse:
"It doesn't matter"
I could write pages just trying to (meta-)analyse those.
I think the 'verse needs to solve us as much as we need to solve it.
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
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Re: If a tree falls in the forest and no person or animal is around to hear it, then does it make a soun *DELETED* [Re: huxmush]
#14220054 - 04/01/11 10:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Post deleted by the bizzleReason for deletion: p
-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest



Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
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Re: If a tree falls in the forest and no person or animal is around to hear it, then does it make a soun [Re: huxmush]
#14220384 - 04/01/11 11:55 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
huxmush said: There's a third way of looking at this question:
c) Stop worrying about esoteric questions about other frames of reference and explore your own.
I used to get hung up on over-analysing this sort of stuff, but you end up in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Heck, I'm still trying to get over the potential hidden meaning in these 3 words:
"Does it matter?"
or its inverse:
"It doesn't matter"
I could write pages just trying to (meta-)analyse those.
I think the 'verse needs to solve us as much as we need to solve it.
As I said, I think it's a bullshit question. "however in this depiction the question is irrelevant anyway" Was just showing what the question is driving at.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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R2-D2
horseradish


Registered: 12/14/10
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Re: If a tree falls in the forest and no person or animal is around to hear it, then does it make a soun [Re: Grapefruit]
#14221204 - 04/01/11 02:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Do trees make sound?
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.




Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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Re: If a tree falls in the forest and no person or animal is around to hear it, then does it make a soun [Re: R2-D2]
#14222140 - 04/01/11 05:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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the question was not meant to have an answer, the point was to close down certain mental circuits to make way for satori.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
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Re: If a tree falls in the forest and no person or animal is around to hear it, then does it make a soun [Re: STR80180]
#14222492 - 04/01/11 06:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
STR80180 said: It sure will make compression and rarefaction waves of air molecules but without an inner ear to turn those waves into brain signals their technically is no sound.
Well said!
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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