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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,504
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[AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use
#14208291 - 03/30/11 08:31 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Another reason for ending prohibition and legalizing MDMA ...
Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use March 29, 2011 - Reuters
For a glimpse into real-world drug use, Australian researchers went to parties where people were using a drug known as ecstasy - and discovered that users' brains were at far more risk from the drug than anyone had suspected.
The researchers also found that ecstasy pills often contain a variety of other drugs.
"What's concerning is that most studies looking at toxicity in people or animals look at a single drug," said Dr. Thomas Newton, a professor at Baylor College of Medicine, who was not involved in this study.
"We have no idea what happens when you start mixing like this."
For this study, 56 people who had taken ecstasy at least five times in the past agreed to invite the researchers to house parties where they took ecstasy once again.
The researchers collected a sample of the pills and measured users' blood levels of MDMA - the chemical that's in ecstasy - every hour for 5 hours after people took the drug. At the end of the study, each user received AUS$200 (about US$205, or 128 GBP) for participating.
In some people, the amount of MDMA reached levels that cause injury or death in primates.
The researchers found that only half of the pills consisted entirely of MDMA. The other half also contained methamphetamine or chemicals related to MDMA: MDEA or MDA.
Some pills had no MDMA at all. The ones that did had amounts that ranged widely, from as low as 25 mg to ten times that amount.
"This highlights a significant public health concern, particularly regarding the existence of pills containing more than 200 mg of MDMA," the authors write in their report of the study, which is published in the journal Addiction.
Because the research was intended to capture a realistic snapshot of ecstasy use, the number of pills people took over the course of an evening varied as well. Most users ingested more than one pill; some people took as many as five.
"Taking multiple pills is likely to lead to very high blood concentration, which may be harmful," Dr. Rod Irvine, the lead author of the study, wrote in an email to Reuters Health.
That's because concentrations of MDMA in users' blood did not stop climbing during the 5 hours of sampling.
"We were surprised that the...concentrations continued to rise throughout the study," Irvine, a professor at the University of Adelaide, said. "The higher levels are approaching those that have been shown to be damaging to brain cells in animal models."
Three users had blood concentrations greater than 700 mg/L, which was poisonous to primates in laboratory studies. Another three users had concentrations very close to that level.
"Those are big numbers," Newton said of the blood concentrations.
Irvine said that most users continued to take more ecstasy throughout the night, even though their blood concentrations from the initial pill had not peaked.
The authors speculate that users might develop a tolerance to the drug while they're using it, making them feel less intoxicated even while their blood levels of the drug are increasing.
None of the users in the study suffered any immediate health problems from taking ecstasy.
According to the US National Institute on Drug Abuse, ecstasy can interfere with heart rate and temperature regulation and can cause brain damage.
Seven of every 100 twelfth-graders say they have tried ecstasy.
Irvine said that collecting data at parties is a valuable way to get a sense of what people are actually exposing themselves to.
For instance, in 14 people the amount of MDMA in the blood reached levels that had never been studied in humans in the lab.
In laboratory studies, ethical considerations prevent researchers from testing such high doses in people, so the amounts they experiment with "do not reflect the range used naturally," Irvine wrote.
Regarding the information Irvine's team collected, Newton said, "It's very unique to pull that off."
The research was funded by the National Health and Medical Research Council of Australia.
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Heffy
BrauMeister



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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: veggie]
#14208347 - 03/30/11 08:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
In some people, the amount of MDMA reached levels that cause injury or death
Quote:
"The higher levels are approaching those that have been shown to be damaging to brain cells in animal models."
Quote:
Three users had blood concentrations greater than 700 mg/L, which was poisonous to primates in laboratory studies. Another three users had concentrations very close to that level.
It seems as if they are referring to the Ricaurte study, am I wrong? It would be pretty unscientific of them to base their presumptions off such a questionable study, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that's exactly what they did, whether intentionally or not.
Quote:
None of the users in the study suffered any immediate health problems from taking ecstasy.
-------------------- I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund
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argg
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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: Heffy] 1
#14208494 - 03/30/11 09:39 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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how many liters of blood in the human body? They said some people tested at 700mg/L so that's a lot of molly they ate.
I searched and it seems 5.6 liters are an average so that is 3.9 grams of pure molly in there if that is the case. Who does 3.9 grams of molly at once?
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twiztidthoughts
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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: veggie]
#14208935 - 03/30/11 11:11 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
each user received AUS$200 (about US$205, or 128 GBP) for participating.
Why cant I ever find some kind of study like this to participate in? lol
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shroomgatherer
Connoisseur of the finer things



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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: twiztidthoughts]
#14209467 - 03/30/11 01:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
twiztidthoughts said:
Quote:
each user received AUS$200 (about US$205, or 128 GBP) for participating.
Why cant I ever find some kind of study like this to participate in? lol
Yeah that should buy a nice 20-pack (of E) for their next weekend!
Having/seeing my blood being taken while rolling on E might be a little strange though.
.
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Perun
Mahapralaya...



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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: argg]
#14209501 - 03/30/11 01:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
argg said: how many liters of blood in the human body? They said some people tested at 700mg/L so that's a lot of molly they ate.
I searched and it seems 5.6 liters are an average so that is 3.9 grams of pure molly in there if that is the case. Who does 3.9 grams of molly at once?
(Its Lola,im on Perun's account)
Answering your question: WHO? Everyone....many of my friends, aquaintances, etc. Even i have done 2g (or a bit over)miself.
Its very common in Europe. Our night-outs dont start at 17h and end at 23h.
Here you start at dinner,eating good (cuz u wont for atleast 2 days); after dinner you start rollin'.You go to the pub area till 2am,than to a club,than to the after-hours and after that(around 14hrs)to some of your friends house to come down and chill...
If its a party, they usually start at 21h and end on the next day at the same time.They're 24hrs parties.(But u have everything; chillout area, bars, plenty of free water, toillets, shadow and sun areas and different types of tents with ethnic music, or selling clothes.I mean anything u might need is there or someone gets it for u).
Our festivals are even better! 
I love it,i love rolling in my country.
-------------------- First: Then:
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The Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: Perun]
#14209531 - 03/30/11 01:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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People who are dancing on the weekends and enjoying the extremely brief life of a human is far more respectable than those who are afraid of breaking a finger nail and act as spectators on the sideline.
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5-HT2A
Registered: 01/30/10 
Posts: 1,794
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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: The Whale]
#14209611 - 03/30/11 01:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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This is all old news. Of course it's not pure MDMA, which is purely the fault of those who made it illegal and the criminals who profit off the situation.
Legalize it and the pills will be pure and of a specific amount of the drug.
Turn on the AC, and toxicity is greatly mitigated.
Smoke a bowl or two before dropping, and toxicity is further mitigated.
And stfu about "primates." If you're doing a study on humans, discuss humans. Monkeys don't = humans.
Any questions anti-drug soccer moms?
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FleshCap
FleshCap



Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 685
Loc: Cali Underground
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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: 5-HT2A]
#14209632 - 03/30/11 01:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Personally, I have found Ecstasy to be a drug that is best used infrequently. I only do it a few times a year and have found the experience to be more rewarding when it's not overdone.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: FleshCap]
#14209661 - 03/30/11 01:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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OLD NEWS, WHY KEEP TALKING ABOUT IT LIKE THIS? THAT IS ALL.
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LeeHarvOz
Homie


Registered: 10/13/10
Posts: 2,339
Last seen: 1 year, 7 days
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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: argg]
#14209755 - 03/30/11 02:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
argg said: how many liters of blood in the human body? They said some people tested at 700mg/L so that's a lot of molly they ate.
I searched and it seems 5.6 liters are an average so that is 3.9 grams of pure molly in there if that is the case. Who does 3.9 grams of molly at once?
i've seen it done
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: Perun]
#14210127 - 03/30/11 03:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Perun said:
Quote:
argg said: how many liters of blood in the human body? They said some people tested at 700mg/L so that's a lot of molly they ate.
I searched and it seems 5.6 liters are an average so that is 3.9 grams of pure molly in there if that is the case. Who does 3.9 grams of molly at once?
(Its Lola,im on Perun's account)
Answering your question: WHO? Everyone....many of my friends, aquaintances, etc. Even i have done 2g (or a bit over)miself.
Its very common in Europe. Our night-outs dont start at 17h and end at 23h.
Here you start at dinner,eating good (cuz u wont for atleast 2 days); after dinner you start rollin'.You go to the pub area till 2am,than to a club,than to the after-hours and after that(around 14hrs)to some of your friends house to come down and chill...
If its a party, they usually start at 21h and end on the next day at the same time.They're 24hrs parties.(But u have everything; chillout area, bars, plenty of free water, toillets, shadow and sun areas and different types of tents with ethnic music, or selling clothes.I mean anything u might need is there or someone gets it for u).
Our festivals are even better! 
I love it,i love rolling in my country. 
Wow - 2 grams? I'm sorry, but that's just plain DUMB. You really feel the need to take two fucking GRAMS of MDMA to have a good time?
I've partied all night before too, and the most I've taken is 600mg. And that was pretty excessive. I don't understand how that is event remotely necessary unless you have a huge tolerance or a history of abuse leading to less serotonin receptors.
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Superide
PROcrastinator


Registered: 01/19/11
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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: pwnasaurus]
#14210372 - 03/30/11 04:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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At the end of the night of people taking prodigious amounts of E and no one sustained health problems....WHY IS THIS ILLEGAL!
Legalize it and make pure pills available of a certain dosage.
Those who dislike drugs and don't want to partake don't have to. For those of us who enjoy rolling, we have safe titrated amounts to enjoy without the fear of persecution.
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shopdropper
Professional Psychonaut


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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: Superide]
#14211702 - 03/30/11 08:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Haha I've seen people take .5g at a time, a few times in a night. They think the negative side effects are good. Nystagmus they call "flutter vision" haha. The shit they get is crap quality I gave them my shit and .5g was all they took that night they still got their flutter vision
-------------------- DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME: no guarantees can be made about the accuracy of the information herein. The information dicussed in these posts is purely hypothetical, and for intelectual purposes only. Any similarity between internet chat and real life is pure coincidence.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: shopdropper]
#14211755 - 03/30/11 08:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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aahahahahaha flutter vision... i know people who get this too.
oh shit, whoa man... yeah.... oh yeahhhh... I SO HIGH; FLUTTER VISION!
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shopdropper
Professional Psychonaut


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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: akira_akuma]
#14211800 - 03/30/11 08:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Lol basically they aren't getting any higher just increasing negative side effects, Jaw clenching,nystagmus, goosebumps bumps, ect. Lol.
-------------------- DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME: no guarantees can be made about the accuracy of the information herein. The information dicussed in these posts is purely hypothetical, and for intelectual purposes only. Any similarity between internet chat and real life is pure coincidence.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: shopdropper]
#14211833 - 03/30/11 08:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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yeah, they some often do...
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mexicanjewlucas
sleep, save, blow stuff up




Registered: 12/11/10
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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: shroomgatherer]
#14213170 - 03/31/11 02:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroomgatherer said: Yeah that should buy a nice 20-pack (of E) for their next weekend!
in australia the street price on the west coast is about $50 (or was when i was taking them around year 98-02), east i think about $30.
-------------------- "We can get 2 birds stoned at once."
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slagMUFFIN
Spiney ribbed Mooslet

Registered: 03/27/11
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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: mexicanjewlucas]
#14213219 - 03/31/11 03:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
mexicanjewlucas said:
Quote:
shroomgatherer said: Yeah that should buy a nice 20-pack (of E) for their next weekend!
in australia the street price on the west coast is about $50 (or was when i was taking them around year 98-02), east i think about $30.
Wew those prices seem a little steep.west coast 02 prices as per those lucid memories wern't that high. singles 30-35 each depending on avaliability, very good rolls (everyone knew what was good and what was bad) could go as high as 40. 50 sounds like club prices . East coast has it e-z-e, bastards! 30 singles and below for bulk, of course price varies!
It will be a happy happy day when MDMA is pharma grade and legal. Lots of happy faces that day.
-------------------- enveloping stuff and fucking shitup with perixomes. I will lysis the shit outta yew!
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lucas_southoz
Adelaidian



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 1,196
Loc:
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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: slagMUFFIN]
#14213241 - 03/31/11 03:24 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Single around $20-$25.. 10 pack usually $180... Thats in the south..
Half of it ain't even e anymore, too many dodgy dealers trying to get away with selling shit.
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LightShedder
Trading currencies



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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: lucas_southoz]
#14213342 - 03/31/11 04:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm not denying the neurotoxicity of MDMA. As a voluntary non-user of MDMA i call BULLSHIT on this "study" which would be better classified as a story. In order to reach blood levels of 700mg/L one would have to consume retarded amounts. They claimed the strongest pills being eaten that night (and it was pills, no mention of Molly) were 250 mg MDMA (also unlikely). Someone would have eaten at least 20 of those pills alone to reach that. Unless your CNS had some awesome ecstasy-replicating-intensifier that could increase the amount of MDMA you consumed after it enters your bloodstream lol. Jk about that one.
Honestly though, 125 mg or less of MDMA sounds appropriate a handful or less times. It loses it's magic after that anyway. Why abuse it in higher doses then that? Face it. It is dangerous strictly because of the LD50 alone. Even if it were legal and manufactured purely and dosed accurately, it's still easy to overdose fatally when the LD50 is possibly only 5 times as high as a moderate dose? (10 mg/kg=ld50{maybe} while 2 mg/kg is a typical dose)
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mexicanjewlucas
sleep, save, blow stuff up




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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: LightShedder]
#14213396 - 03/31/11 05:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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yeh, i never paid over $30. i did have connections though.
-------------------- "We can get 2 birds stoned at once."
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shopdropper
Professional Psychonaut


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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: mexicanjewlucas]
#14213420 - 03/31/11 05:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Wow swim was sellin 7 grams for $550 USD really decent quality MDA in 2010
-------------------- DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME: no guarantees can be made about the accuracy of the information herein. The information dicussed in these posts is purely hypothetical, and for intelectual purposes only. Any similarity between internet chat and real life is pure coincidence.
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Humility
Working on it



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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: shopdropper]
#14213552 - 03/31/11 06:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I can't imagine it's that difficult to smuggle drugs into AU, the coastline is a smuggler's paradise.
If I lived in AU I'd for sure be in the distribution business.
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Cyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out



Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
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Re: [AU] Greater brain risks from "real-world" ecstasy use [Re: Humility]
#14214053 - 03/31/11 10:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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"Something bout those little pills, the thrills they yeild until they kill a million brain cells!! I'm going down to.. LA LA LAND!!!"
 Raving this weekend. WOO!!
-------------------- Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world? There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K Something abut that anaesthetic rush... Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One
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