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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Work Ethic 1
#14205033 - 03/29/11 05:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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What's the point of having a work ethic? Ever since I was a kid, I've been told that having a work ethic is a good thing, but I can't see why that is true.
What do you think?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14205042 - 03/29/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It can be great if applied to improving your lot in life, which it generally does I think.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Yeah, the hardest working humans: slaves and peasant farmers and coal miners and such, are really riding high.
--------------------
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Im not sure if I would call that work ethic...
In any case, do you think their lot in life would be the same if they didnt work so hard?
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14205961 - 03/29/11 08:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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As far as I can tell, a work ethic mostly helps the wealthy who own the means of production and get the most benefit from someone who is dedicated to and sacrifices for their work.
It seems like a sheeple mentality. What a great thing for a wealthy business owner to have employees who think it's "good" to work hard. Kinda like a bank teller who gets shot trying to thwart a bank robber who's about to steal what amounts to a profitable insurance company's money.
Makes no sense to me.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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XUL
OTD Janitor



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 28,261
Loc: America
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14206035 - 03/29/11 08:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I admit I dont have good work ethic when it comes to jobs that are less than 10 dollars an hour.
I just cant care enough.
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4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14206094 - 03/29/11 09:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: As far as I can tell, a work ethic mostly helps the wealthy who own the means of production and get the most benefit from someone who is dedicated to and sacrifices for their work.
It seems like a sheeple mentality. What a great thing for a wealthy business owner to have employees who think it's "good" to work hard. Kinda like a bank teller who gets shot trying to thwart a bank robber who's about to steal an what amounts to a profitable insurance company's money.
Makes no sense to me.
Work ethic is what allows lower class people to move up in class, and middle class people to at least stay the same. This is still pretty meaningless imo considering I don't believe in free will.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,857
Last seen: 1 hour, 27 minutes
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14207696 - 03/30/11 03:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Some of the hardest working people I've known were business owners, doctors, lawyers and scientists.
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Weltall
lost in a strange world


Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 79
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Freedom]
#14207707 - 03/30/11 03:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I always thought work ethic was the want and willingness to do a job and do it correctly to the best of your own ability.
--------------------
"STAND TALL AND SHAKE THE HEAVENS." SICUS PACUS PARABELLUM
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Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Weltall]
#14207914 - 03/30/11 05:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Weltall said: I always thought work ethic was the want and willingness to do a job and do it correctly to the best of your own ability.
To me, work ethic is taking the time and effort to "do it right," whatever that may mean in any context.
I don't cut corners on tasks, I hate it when people do. While I might not always get it right, it won't be for lack of trying on my part.
Same feeling applies for a job.
Maybe it's shameful to be a working "sheeple," but I think being bad at your job or not trying are more shameful.
It might be a bit different because I'm an engineer and there is professional pride (and people's lives) at stake, but I'd like to think I'd be just as dedicated if I was a cashier, being friendly and ringing up people's groceries.
EDIT: Showing up on time every day looking nice, too. It says "I give a fuck about what I do here, the money you're paying me isn't wasted"
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
Edited by Kid_Orgo (03/30/11 05:49 AM)
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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my work ethic isnt working 
could any1 suggest a good work ethic ethic?
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Kid_Orgo] 1
#14208045 - 03/30/11 06:55 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Showing up on time every day looking nice, too. It says "I give a fuck about what I do here, the money you're paying me isn't wasted"
And the owner of the firm says "Thanks for so completely swallowing your brainwashing that you actually take pride in amplifying my wealth as you get a fair wage no where near what I get".
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14208436 - 03/30/11 09:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Showing up on time every day looking nice, too. It says "I give a fuck about what I do here, the money you're paying me isn't wasted"
And the owner of the firm says "Thanks for so completely swallowing your brainwashing that you actually take pride in amplifying my wealth as you get a fair wage no where near what I get". 
Without the business owner they would be unemployed.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: 4896744]
#14208446 - 03/30/11 09:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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What does that have to do with the price of tea?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14208453 - 03/30/11 09:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Being employed is a good thing. Or, more accurately, having the choice of being employed or not is a good thing.
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Obey
The Analocalypse



Registered: 10/19/08
Posts: 270
Loc: Dirty South
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Yea Work ethic is complete and utter bullshit. Its just an way for employers to make the employee feel like their not pulling their weight, while in reality they are making not even 1% of what the fat ass spider solitaire playing boss is making by just sitting on his ass. YES WORK ETHIC IS COMPLETELY IMPORTANT.
-------------------- Anything that is posted by myself Obey is completely fiction. Any pictures posted come from an external unknown source.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Obey]
#14208520 - 03/30/11 09:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I hate working, & I'm glad I don't have to work. 
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (03/30/11 09:59 AM)
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cbhead23
Frisbee



Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 539
Loc: GA
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Poid]
#14208611 - 03/30/11 10:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I remember being shocked when I got my first job at 16, working at a movie theater. No one had any work ethic, yet I busted ass. We all got paid the same regardless.
I still bust my ass at any job I get, but it gets me nowhere. All my bosses like me, I get good references, but it's like I am expending energy I don't absolutely NEED to to expending. Pulling other peoples weight at a minimum wage job gets you nowhere.
If I could bust my ass in college, everything would be worthwhile.
Oh well...
Work ethic pays off in some ways while in others it's almost a huge waste of time.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest



Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14208661 - 03/30/11 10:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah, I agree. They say don't bite the hand that feeds you, but more often it just seems like an excuse to be alright with being an economic slave.
Money is power in this society and a good many boss' will do their best to abuse that power.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Joolz


Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 3,614
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Because I choose to not be a piece of shit human being, and I like my job.
-------------------- Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.
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stranger_danger
psychonaut



Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 1,738
Loc: somewhere around here
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Joolz]
#14211277 - 03/30/11 06:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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i dont think ethnics do no work... thats they problem, really..
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mikeisapro
Pro
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 3,206
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: quinn]
#14212154 - 03/30/11 09:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
quinn said: my work ethic isnt working 
could any1 suggest a good work ethic ethic?
I like that, it's not working. This is always perceived as a bad thing. We reinforce the idea that work ethic is good by even thinking and speaking in these terms that society has us thinking and speaking in. After all, if a person is not working, isn't that perceived as negative (despite unemployment rate)? Just like when anything else isn't working or doesn't work.
I don't know enough about utilitarianism to make this claim, but fuck utilitarianism
-------------------- Life without drugs lacks substance(s).
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DisoRDeR
motional



Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid] 1
#14214356 - 03/31/11 11:24 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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A strong work ethic overcomes direct selfishness, establishing some motivation greater than immediate personal gain to drive human action.
Manipulating this motivation in others can prove beneficial to selfish people.
What are your thoughts regarding a work ethic applied in a non-profit organization, government, co-op, etc. where the benefits of one's efforts are supposedly more widely distributed?
What about working for yourself?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Freedom]
#14214418 - 03/31/11 11:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said: Some of the hardest working people I've known were business owners, doctors, lawyers and scientists.
Yep. A willingness to do for yourself and not be a parasitic loser. Sheeple does not enter into the equation. Say Diploid did you know that performing hard work even for somebody else can impact your lot in life positively? It's true. You get promotions and raises and shit. Who knew?
--------------------
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14214508 - 03/31/11 12:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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i equate work ethic with energy or chi (keep reading plx ), and as such it's actually completely central to human happiness. Although, you don't have to put it towards anything, having lots of chi kept inward and not used is really the foundation of bliss. But it feels good to influence external reality as well, in the form of art and overall lifestyle. It's hard to see what the flow is when your days are all the same And having a good work ethic is paramount to erecting the awesome structures in life that bring about diversity and newness
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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13.step
cynical bastard



Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Quote:
Kid_Orgo said:
Quote:
Weltall said: I always thought work ethic was the want and willingness to do a job and do it correctly to the best of your own ability.
To me, work ethic is taking the time and effort to "do it right," whatever that may mean in any context.
I don't cut corners on tasks, I hate it when people do. While I might not always get it right, it won't be for lack of trying on my part.
Same feeling applies for a job.
Maybe it's shameful to be a working "sheeple," but I think being bad at your job or not trying are more shameful.
It might be a bit different because I'm an engineer and there is professional pride (and people's lives) at stake, but I'd like to think I'd be just as dedicated if I was a cashier, being friendly and ringing up people's groceries.
EDIT: Showing up on time every day looking nice, too. It says "I give a fuck about what I do here, the money you're paying me isn't wasted"
This.
I don't get it why you equate work ethic with having to work jobs you don't like for people you don't like. That's just sucking at life, not work ethics fault you dirty commies...
Would you say fuck work ethics if you had your own business and the amount and quality of work was directly proportional to your income? Maybe that's why ya'll got shitty jobs...
--------------------
Not to be taken seriously by any means!
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Say Diploid did you know that performing hard work even for somebody else can impact your lot in life positively?
I dunno. I'm fortunate to be pretty well off and don't have to work. But if I did, I would not give more than a fair exchange for my wages. Sacrificing for one's work (read: for the owner of the means of production) sucks in my book.
Life is short. People should work in order to live, not live for their work, IMO.
You can do as you please. Hey, I'll hire you, sure! Come sacrifice to amplify my fortune. I'll let you work overtime for free and everything.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14217186 - 03/31/11 08:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Everybody's gotta work mang, whether its for the man or not is a question of your situation. But there's not a person on this planet that isn't going to have to work hard in some way during their lifetime.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: g00ru] 2
#14217279 - 03/31/11 09:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Plenty of people are born into wealth and never work a day in their life, unless you're counting the tennis court at the country club as work.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14217597 - 03/31/11 09:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Plenty of people are born into wealth and never work a day in their life, unless you're counting the tennis court at the country club as work.
It is a very small minority of people that are able to live like this. Most people with money aren't inclined to let their children bum off of them throughout adulthood in my experience.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: 4896744]
#14218093 - 03/31/11 11:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14219546 - 04/01/11 08:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Say Diploid did you know that performing hard work even for somebody else can impact your lot in life positively?
I dunno. I'm fortunate to be pretty well off and don't have to work. But if I did, I would not give more than a fair exchange for my wages. Sacrificing for one's work (read: for the owner of the means of production) sucks in my book.
Life is short. People should work in order to live, not live for their work, IMO.
Some people find meaning and reward in being useful. Others are happy to be useless. Not your business what other people do.Quote:
You can do as you please. Hey, I'll hire you, sure! Come sacrifice to amplify my fortune. I'll let you work overtime for free and everything. 
Well actually I would work for you to amplify my fortune. Whether yours increases is not my main concern although I realize that I might have more leverage to get more pay if it does. Do you think employers hire people for fun? I also understand that the sole purpose of any company is and should be to provide a return for the owners. If they aren't making money the company goes away. No more jobs for anybody.
Trustafarians, LOL. I wouldn't hire you. You have quite a highly developed sense of entitlement and personal specialness. You are neither. The sole purpose of me hiring you would be to increase my fortune. Increasing your fortune is the price I pay for that. Since you don't care I don't need you
--------------------
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Diploid said: Say Diploid did you know that performing hard work even for somebody else can impact your lot in life positively?
I dunno. I'm fortunate to be pretty well off and don't have to work. But if I did, I would not give more than a fair exchange for my wages. Sacrificing for one's work (read: for the owner of the means of production) sucks in my book.
Life is short. People should work in order to live, not live for their work, IMO.
Some people find meaning and reward in being useful. Others are happy to be useless. Not your business what other people do.Quote:
You can do as you please. Hey, I'll hire you, sure! Come sacrifice to amplify my fortune. I'll let you work overtime for free and everything. 
Well actually I would work for you to amplify my fortune. Whether yours increases is not my main concern although I realize that I might have more leverage to get more pay if it does. Do you think employers hire people for fun? I also understand that the sole purpose of any company is and should be to provide a return for the owners. If they aren't making money the company goes away. No more jobs for anybody.
Trustafarians, LOL. I wouldn't hire you. You have quite a highly developed sense of entitlement and personal specialness. You are neither. The sole purpose of me hiring you would be to increase my fortune. Increasing your fortune is the price I pay for that. Since you don't care I don't need you
It doesn't appear that you are currently in the position to hire anyone and haven't been for quite some time.
glory days, well they'll pass you by...
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Some people find meaning and reward in being useful.
Yeah? So what? Did I say otherwise?
One can be useful in ways that enrich the community instead of the wealthy. That extra five hours of free labor you can give to your boss or volunteering somewhere. I chose the latter.
The sole purpose of me hiring you would be to increase my fortune.
The sole purpose of me working for you is to increase MY fortune, not yours. Sauce for the goose and all that, yeah?
That's not to say I would steal from you or shirk my responsibilities, in case you're reading that into my comments. But sacrificing for you or my job? Not a chance. I'm not part of the brainwashed herd.
And if you were hard up and had to lay me off, you would do it in a heartbeat, no matter how much I might have sacrificed for your company. We each look out for ourselves... well, unless you're a member of the herd.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Toltecatl
Psychonaut


Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 641
Loc: Tardis
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Lack of work ethic is bad in any culture at any time. We all have to work for something, or you become an arrogant, self-entitled douche bag. And blaming your lack of desire to work on your avoidance of becoming sheeple...well that's just an half-assed attempt at blaming "corporations" or "the man" for your outright laziness. You reap what you sow brothers.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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That's what bosses love to hear.
Wanna come work for me? I have a messy garage that needs tidying up. You can work really hard for me and I won't mind. Really! Go the extra mile for me man. It's good for the culture. Think of the children!
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Toltecatl
Psychonaut


Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 641
Loc: Tardis
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14219771 - 04/01/11 09:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Everyone works for something. Just look how hard you work at trolling posts. Fortunately, you can clean the garage yourself (or don't because you're too "well off" and lazy) because my hard work continues to pay off. I work for some really rad people and have a fun time making money to support my family. And guess what? I still have plenty of free time to donate to my fellow brothers and sisters.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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I'm sure your rad employer loves you. No doubt. 
Get back to me when things turn and you get laid off without so much as a thank you card. My garage will still need cleaning.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Toltecatl said: Lack of work ethic is bad in any culture at any time. We all have to work for something, or you become an arrogant, self-entitled douche bag. And blaming your lack of desire to work on your avoidance of becoming sheeple...well that's just an half-assed attempt at blaming "corporations" or "the man" for your outright laziness. You reap what you sow brothers.
Whoever said I had a lack of desire to work? I work around the homestead and at a community college. I don't work for a corporation because I have other choices which are more appealing. If you want to work for a corporation, go for it!
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13.step
cynical bastard



Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Quote:
Toltecatl said: Lack of work ethic is bad in any culture at any time. We all have to work for something, or you become an arrogant, self-entitled douche bag. And blaming your lack of desire to work on your avoidance of becoming sheeple...well that's just an half-assed attempt at blaming "corporations" or "the man" for your outright laziness. You reap what you sow brothers.
Winning!!!
Also some people don't understand what work ethic means here...
--------------------
Not to be taken seriously by any means!
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Toltecatl
Psychonaut


Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 641
Loc: Tardis
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: 13.step]
#14220024 - 04/01/11 10:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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You do realize unless you reply to someone's post directly, your post will be an automatic Re: to the last post in the thread, right? That was the case here. Don't get your panties in a wad.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: 13.step]
#14220073 - 04/01/11 11:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Also some people don't understand what work ethic means here...
From the Wiki:
Work ethic is a set of values based on hard work and diligence. It is also a belief in the moral benefit of work and its ability to enhance character. An example would be the Protestant work ethic. A work ethic may include being reliable, having initiative, or maintaining social skills.
Slacker and hippie cultures have challenged these values in recent times, characterizing them as submissive to authority and convention, and not valuable in and of themselves, but only if it brings a positive result. Others have said that it is more important to work smart than to work hard.
In the 19th century, the Arts and Crafts movement of William Morris in the UK and Elbert Hubbard in the US noted how "alienation" of workers from ownership of the tools of production and their work product was destructive of the work ethic because in the expanding firms of that era, the workers saw no point in doing more than the minimum.
The industrial engineer Frederick Winslow Taylor revised the notion of work ethic to include giving up control over the work process to management so that the latter could study and "rationalize" the work process, and the notion of work ethic thereafter included acknowledgment of management control.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Toltecatl
Psychonaut


Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 641
Loc: Tardis
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14220174 - 04/01/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: I'm sure your rad employer loves you. No doubt. 
Get back to me when things turn and you get laid off without so much as a thank you card.
Not gonna happen
Quote:
My garage will still need cleaning.
No doubt. Since, as you said, you have no work ethic. Have fun with your pig stye,. It suits you and your attitude
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14220177 - 04/01/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Diploid said:Quote:
Work ethic is a set of values based on hard work and diligence.
Hard work and diligence can be done in your own business or on a homestead. It doesn't have to be limited to working for an employer.
Quote:
The industrial engineer Frederick Winslow Taylor revised the notion of work ethic to include giving up control over the work process to management so that the latter could study and "rationalize" the work process, and the notion of work ethic thereafter included acknowledgment of management control.
It appears to me that to give up control of one's work to "management" has created a herd of sheeple.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Not gonna happen [get laid off]
My guess is you're young and haven't been in the workforce long. Time will teach you though, unfortunately.
Have fun with your pig stye,. It suits you and your attitude
I can usually tell when someone knows their argument doesn't hold water when they switch from debating the topic to insulting me instead.
It's also against the rules. Don't do it again.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14220328 - 04/01/11 11:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Some people find meaning and reward in being useful.
Yeah? So what? Did I say otherwise?
You said: "People should work in order to live, not live for their work, IMO."
Quote:
One can be useful in ways that enrich the community instead of the wealthy. That extra five hours of free labor you can give to your boss or volunteering somewhere. I chose the latter.
Who said anything about free labor? Why do you assume that every employer is wealthy? What about taxes? If everybody took your attitude who the fuck would be left to pay the bills?Quote:
The sole purpose of me hiring you would be to increase my fortune.
The sole purpose of me working for you is to increase MY fortune, not yours. Sauce for the goose and all that, yeah?
Which if you are a clock punching cipher with no work ethic is not going to rise. Make me money or get the fuck out. Quote:
That's not to say I would steal from you or shirk my responsibilities, in case you're reading that into my comments. But sacrificing for you or my job? Not a chance. I'm not part of the brainwashed herd.
Oy vey here we go with the "brainwashed" bullshit again.Quote:
And if you were hard up and had to lay me off, you would do it in a heartbeat, no matter how much I might have sacrificed for your company. We each look out for ourselves... well, unless you're a member of the herd.
If there is no work, there is no work. I get fucked last. And I don't expect sacrifice. Why do you think a work ethic entails sacrifice? For whom is it more important to even have a work ethic? The employee or the employer? Self employed people who wish to have a successful business work far harder than any of their employees.
Why do you exploit the brainwashed herd? Who do you think made the computer you use? I hope you get somebody with your attitude when you have to use medical services. Then you might appreciate their work ethic a little more.
And HippieChhick, it isn't me suffering because business is down. It's the employees who have no work. I have no worries.
--------------------
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Toltecatl
Psychonaut


Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 641
Loc: Tardis
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14220764 - 04/01/11 12:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Not gonna happen [get laid off]
My guess is you're young and haven't been in the workforce long. Time will teach you though, unfortunately. [quote/]
Wrong, your guess is, grasshopper. Much to learn you have.
Quote:
Have fun with your pig stye,. It suits you and your attitude
I can usually tell when someone knows their argument doesn't hold water when they switch from debating the topic to insulting me instead. [quote/]
You insult yourself with multiple references to your unkempt domicile. 
Quote:
It's also against the rules. Don't do it again.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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your unkempt domicile.
I dunno about you, but where I come from, we don't live in our garage.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Toltecatl
Psychonaut


Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 641
Loc: Tardis
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14220906 - 04/01/11 01:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: your unkempt domicile.
I dunno about you, but where I come from, we don't live in our garage. 
I don't know about you, but where I come from, garages are a part of the house 
That's like saying my car is sparkling clean....except for all that shit in the trunk. But that doesn't count as "part" of the car becuase you don't ride back there (unless your gagged and tied up of course)
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,857
Last seen: 1 hour, 27 minutes
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14220919 - 04/01/11 01:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: What's the point of having a work ethic? Ever since I was a kid, I've been told that having a work ethic is a good thing, but I can't see why that is true.
What do you think?
A work ethic does benefit society, however it also can be very beneficial to the individual.
There is one basic reason why a work ethic benefits the individual: we often give more weight to the quality of the present than to how our actions in the present will affect the quality of the future.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Hey, by that logic the sewer system is part of the house because it's attached, no?
That's right. No.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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SheerTerror
ST



Registered: 11/28/03
Posts: 2,348
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14221912 - 04/01/11 04:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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The problem is is that there ain't much room for achievement with good work ethic with one employer or in one trade or field. Theres not much recognition, appreciation or room for advancement with good work ethic. You can work hard at one job for 5 years and only notice a $5 an hour pay increase. Because housing and the cost of living is so expensive it takes up all of a persons time and don't allow for any alternatives for living. If housing was affordable and education was the main interest of society there could be a lot more room advancement in something else for each individual.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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You can work hard at one job for 5 years and only notice a $5 an hour pay increase.
Or find yourself out of a job when the economy sours. Just look around.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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SheerTerror
ST



Registered: 11/28/03
Posts: 2,348
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14222279 - 04/01/11 05:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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From my experience in restaurant and warehouse work, work ethic is all there is, each day you either work poorly or work hard. Then the employer takes all the profits and wages stay the same for employees for several years.
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Joolz


Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 3,614
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Quote:
SheerTerror said: From my experience in restaurant and warehouse work, work ethic is all there is, each day you either work poorly or work hard. Then the employer takes all the profits and wages stay the same for employees for several years.
This is true, sadly. My real issue is when I used to work with people on a shift (happily am the only person at my hotel on all my shifts now, thank heavens. I fucking HATE the rabble that work here) and they would just slack off while I was working. Out of touch management doesn't realize it, but it really just makes me mad.
Still, I work a pretty dead-end job until I get a little school under my belt. Then I could move up nicely, but that's no excuse to be a piece of shit worker imo.
-------------------- Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Toltecatl said:
Quote:
It's also against the rules. Don't do it again.

Toltecatl, please keep the people you're debating with out of the debate; this is your only warning, read the rest of the rules before you post here again:
Forum Rules: Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology (Updated 12/11/09)
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Toltecatl
Psychonaut


Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 641
Loc: Tardis
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Poid]
#14223136 - 04/01/11 08:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Toltecatl said:
Quote:
It's also against the rules. Don't do it again.

Toltecatl, please keep the people you're debating with out of the debate; this is your only warning, read the rest of the rules before you post here again:
Forum Rules: Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology (Updated 12/11/09)
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13.step
cynical bastard



Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Quote:
Toltecatl said:
You do realize unless you reply to someone's post directly, your post will be an automatic Re: to the last post in the thread, right? That was the case here. Don't get your panties in a wad.
I have no idea why you said that. I was responding to you, and I also was agreeing with what you said, in a manner suited to you profile...
I said some people don't know what work ethic means because they think it's that thing that makes you be a sucker at a shitty job...
Diploid - who do you think gets laid off first if they have to let go of somebody? The guy that works his ass off...or someone like you who is sticking it to the man...
Also you say you never worked? Did I get that correctly? Then sorry mate, but your argument is purely theoretic and doesn't hold much water just by that alone.
--------------------
Not to be taken seriously by any means!
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: 13.step]
#14224830 - 04/02/11 05:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
13.step said:
I said some people don't know what work ethic means because they think it's that thing that makes you be a sucker at a shitty job...
Diploid - who do you think gets laid off first if they have to let go of somebody? The guy that works his ass off...or someone like you who is sticking it to the man...
Also you say you never worked? Did I get that correctly? Then sorry mate, but your argument is purely theoretic and doesn't hold much water just by that alone.
Thats the truth right there. In general I try to balance the work I put in and what I get back for it, work in this country (US) is usually a contract between the individual and whoever they work for. If you're getting ripped off, leave the job or take it quitely.
Easier said than done if you actually have to work to survive, like about 6,774,000 people on this planet. Its easy to call the workers sheep - but I'd like to see you walk the walk.
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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Joolz


Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 3,614
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: ahchela]
#14224944 - 04/02/11 07:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I bust my ass off at my hotel. I have to run around and scrounge up all the towels I can because the management company refuses to buy more. I also get the pleasure of telling people when we don't have a room available for them, even though they made a reservation online. There are many other things that I have to deal with that I doubt you guys want to hear about.
I see all these people talking about work ethic and how it means nothing, and I can't help but think those people are exactly like the pieces of shit that I worked with at fast food places in high school. Maybe I'm being unfair, but at this point in the day I don't care.
-------------------- Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14225374 - 04/02/11 10:33 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Plenty of people are born into wealth and never work a day in their life, unless you're counting the tennis court at the country club as work.
these people get fucked karmically. There's absolutely no way to be happy on this world if you aren't honest with yourself and able to stay in the moment. But hey, they might have been born with less karmic requirements and in that cause their work will be very different then the kind of work you're generally referring to.
That's why children of comfort and privilege often make really good artists...spirituality and art do require leisure time in many respects.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: g00ru]
#14225978 - 04/02/11 01:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said:
Quote:
Diploid said: Plenty of people are born into wealth and never work a day in their life, unless you're counting the tennis court at the country club as work.
these people get fucked karmically.
Even if they've never done anything "wrong"?
Quote:
guruu said: There's absolutely no way to be happy on this world if you aren't honest with yourself and able to stay in the moment.
What in the fuck does that have to do with what's being discussed here? 
Quote:
guruu said: But hey, they might have been born with less karmic requirements and in that cause their work will be very different then the kind of work you're generally referring to.
In what way(s) would it be different?
Quote:
guruu said: That's why children of comfort and privilege often make really good artists...spirituality and art do require leisure time in many respects.
What do you mean by "spirituality"? Do you have any proof that children of comfort often make really good artists? What do you mean by often? How often?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Poid]
#14226248 - 04/02/11 01:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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summarize then respond, poid, summarize then respond. What I mean is that many people that don't do shit with their time are often unhappy, and that being comfortable isn't enough to make a happy life, and that this is why, even though Diploid doesn't like working hard, he really has to if he wants to be happy because that is just the nature of things, you get out what you put in.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Poid]
#14226335 - 04/02/11 02:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: I hate working, & I'm glad I don't have to work. 

It's allright, it's not like you're in the danger of being offered a job.
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Quote:
DisoRDeR said: What about working for yourself?
I think that might just be the most selfish thing possible, I'm pretty sure you don't want that.
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Quote:
Toltecatl said: Lack of work ethic is bad in any culture at any time.
The culture of the bums would disagree.
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14226363 - 04/02/11 02:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: My garage will still need cleaning.
Too lazy to clean it?
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
Poid said: I hate working, & I'm glad I don't have to work. 

It's allright, it's not like you're in the danger of being offered a job. 
*alright Maybe I could use my typo-noticing skills to make something of myself some day.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: g00ru]
#14226546 - 04/02/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said: What I mean is that many people that don't do shit with their time are often unhappy...
And many people who do "do shit" (whatever that means...) with their time are also often unhappy; what's your point?
Quote:
guruu said: ...and that being comfortable isn't enough to make a happy life...
Maybe it isn't for some.
Quote:
guruu said: ...and that this is why, even though Diploid doesn't like working hard, he really has to if he wants to be happy because that is just the nature of things, you get out what you put in.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Poid]
#14226583 - 04/02/11 03:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
guruu said: What I mean is that many people that don't do shit with their time are often unhappy...
And many people who do "do shit" (whatever that means...) with their time are also often unhappy; what's your point?
some are, but I would say generally more happy, because they are putting their energy to a constructive purpose which naturally makes you a more balanced person
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,857
Last seen: 1 hour, 27 minutes
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Poid]
#14226632 - 04/02/11 03:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Maybe I could use my typo-noticing skills to make something of myself some day. 
I just found out how much the business world pays you if you are a good editor.
I was always told that writers don't make shit. I guess that's if you write stories about unicorns flying robotic dinosaurs to battle the evil spirits of Netru.
Apparently there is a shortage of competent writers who are willing to write/edit business material.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: g00ru]
#14226663 - 04/02/11 03:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
these people get fucked karmically
You know this how?
--------------------
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Freedom]
#14226727 - 04/02/11 03:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
guruu said: What I mean is that many people that don't do shit with their time are often unhappy...
And many people who do "do shit" (whatever that means...) with their time are also often unhappy; what's your point?
some are, but I would say generally more happy, because they are putting their energy to a constructive purpose which naturally makes you a more balanced person
What do you mean by "do shit"? I don't think there is a single human being who does absolutely nothing at all; some people like being "constructive", and others prefer spending the entirety of their lives relaxing, or having fun. You haven't provided any evidence for your claim that people who "do shit" are generally more happy than people who don't (not that I'm surprised, just pointing it out).
Quote:
Freedom said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Maybe I could use my typo-noticing skills to make something of myself some day. 
I just found out how much the business world pays you if you are a good editor.
I was always told that writers don't make shit. I guess that's if you write stories about unicorns flying robotic dinosaurs to battle the evil spirits of Netru.
Apparently there is a shortage of competent writers who are willing to write/edit business material.
Yeah, there's this editing class in one of the community colleges in my area; the description says something like "If you're the type of person who always notices spelling errors, then this is the class for you!"; I may just sign up for it some day in the near future...
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,857
Last seen: 1 hour, 27 minutes
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Poid] 1
#14226769 - 04/02/11 03:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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then you'll need to meet someone who knows someone who needs an editor.
And then you'll find yourself in the business subculture and probably be thinking, "what the hell am I doing here?"
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Freedom] 1
#14226809 - 04/02/11 03:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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But then he'll be thinking: I am avoiding a karmic fucking.
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Toltecatl
Psychonaut


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Re: Work Ethic [Re: 13.step]
#14227714 - 04/02/11 06:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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my bad that was directed at hippiechick
Edited by Toltecatl (04/02/11 07:02 PM)
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badchad
Mad Scientist

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Posts: 13,372
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14227779 - 04/02/11 07:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Some time ago, us humans figured out that if we work together, and form "societies", "clans" or whatever, that life could become better for the collective whole.
A society of people who work hard, and try increase their chances of a better standard of living. Generally speaking, this holds true for the individual, regardless of whether or not he gets his/her boss rich in the process.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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13.step
cynical bastard



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..well that's ironic...
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Diploid
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Quote:
Diploid said:My guess is you're young and haven't been in the workforce long. Time will teach you though, unfortunately.
Wrong, your guess is, grasshopper. Much to learn you have.
Ah well, my bad. It was a guess born out of the lack of maturity in your insulting posts where you opt for saying nasty things about me instead of debating the topic.
Nevermind then.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14230181 - 04/03/11 08:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think everyone primarily has their own work ethics. The employee will do good stuff to the employers company as long as the employee gets something back from the work he does. That's the employees work ethic, as it's up to him what it is that he gains. He sets his own standards. The employers work ethic not always is to get the most profit on all 'costs'. If he decides wisely, both ethics can meet somewhere in the middle to become a fruitful coexistence, so they can share a 'similar' work ethic.
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Simms
Fuckwit


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Re: Work Ethic [Re: g00ru]
#14231404 - 04/03/11 02:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said:
Quote:
Diploid said: Plenty of people are born into wealth and never work a day in their life, unless you're counting the tennis court at the country club as work.
these people get fucked karmically. There's absolutely no way to be happy on this world if you aren't honest with yourself and able to stay in the moment. But hey, they might have been born with less karmic requirements and in that cause their work will be very different then the kind of work you're generally referring to.
That's why children of comfort and privilege often make really good artists...spirituality and art do require leisure time in many respects.
You say that people who have been born as rich people and don't have to work get fucked karma as implying that those wo work hard do not get fucked karma?
I know a person who has worked her entire life, only to have no wealth. Constant nervousness and sadness.
Then there are the ones who are born rich, but work hard, have good education and become something good. And then there are those who are not born rich and work hard, get education and become something as good or even better. The question is, which one is better? The latter has to work a lot harder, he has to work hard even to get his basic privileges, what the other already has. So any one of those who say that everyone is somehow equal and has to work hard, is not ultimately right.
It is true, that artists need to be free from certain constraints. But ultimate artistry comes from ultimate experience, limitations and ways to prevent those limitations. In Victorian era, for example, there were many artists, and most of them came from rather wealthy families, there are not many artists noted as being born poor. However, only few of those artists turned out to be great. Then again, artistic beauty and wittiness is very subjective thing and it can not be measured, so statistics really does not apply in this one. And there were some rich exceptions like Grimshaw etc. Van Gough was poor, very poor, and eventually he went completely insane, probably from lack of nutrition in hand with events that crafted his psychological mind. It is noted that young independent students are most creative people, and the best works always come from people who are young and studing, going through hardships and lack of proper nutrition. Small starvation expands the possibilities of mind, and creative thinking comes out. When your stomach is full, you become lazy and sleepy.
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Simms]
#14231429 - 04/03/11 02:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Simms said:
Quote:
guruu said:
Quote:
Diploid said: Plenty of people are born into wealth and never work a day in their life, unless you're counting the tennis court at the country club as work.
these people get fucked karmically. There's absolutely no way to be happy on this world if you aren't honest with yourself and able to stay in the moment. But hey, they might have been born with less karmic requirements and in that cause their work will be very different then the kind of work you're generally referring to.
That's why children of comfort and privilege often make really good artists...spirituality and art do require leisure time in many respects.
It is noted that young independent students are most creative people, and the best works always come from people who are young and studing, going through hardships and lack of proper nutrition.
Do you have a source to back this statement up?
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Simms
Fuckwit


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Yeah, I have seen an actual study that concludes this. But currently I am too distracted to search it up. Meanwhile flush my words if you have to, I came here to give some input, not to gain right.
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13.step
cynical bastard



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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Simms]
#14231553 - 04/03/11 03:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Everybody knows that bipolars are the most creative people, bipolars and homosexuals....
For a thread with the title work ethic there is far to little about work ethic inside...
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



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Re: Work Ethic [Re: 13.step]
#14231596 - 04/03/11 03:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
13.step said: Everybody knows that bipolars are the most creative people, bipolars and homosexuals....
For a thread with the title work ethic there is far to little about work ethic inside...
Well, 13.step, cynical bastard, there are actually people who think that work ethic does not have to be about working for an EMPLOYER. Maybe you can enlighten everybody as to why worker for an employer is superior to working for oneself?
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13.step
cynical bastard



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You just opened your brain and poured everything that came out over your keyboard, am I right? 'cause that's what I've been saying all along... 
My last post was a remark about how this thread is more about who you do the work for and why than how you do your work...
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



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Re: Work Ethic [Re: 13.step]
#14231785 - 04/03/11 04:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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13.step said:Quote:
I said some people don't know what work ethic means because they think it's that thing that makes you be a sucker at a shitty job...
Diploid - who do you think gets laid off first if they have to let go of somebody? The guy that works his ass off...or someone like you who is sticking it to the man...
I saw this earlier in the thread. I don't think someone is a sucker or a sheeple for working at a shitty job and doing the best they can. I've worked at many shitty jobs in my life and did the best I could.
What I think makes someone a sheeple is anyone who thinks that the employer actually gives a damn about your hard work and has your best interests at heart. An employer thinks about his own best interests. I think that people just need to be vigilant and not rely solely on their work ethic as it relates to their employer. Have a back up plan in case the employer lays you off. It depends where you live also. Here in Texas, being in the good ol' boy network is actually more important than work ethic.
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13.step
cynical bastard



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You can't really read, can you? Where does it say that you are a sucker if you do your best at a shitty job in what you just quoted?
And the employer cares very much about your hard work because you are working for him and he is giving you his money for that work, so naturally he wants the most he can get, if you're expecting hugs an kisses, then yeah...fuck those guys.
Also here is what I think about the matter:
Quote:
13.step said:
Quote:
Kid_Orgo said:
Quote:
Weltall said: I always thought work ethic was the want and willingness to do a job and do it correctly to the best of your own ability.
To me, work ethic is taking the time and effort to "do it right," whatever that may mean in any context.
I don't cut corners on tasks, I hate it when people do. While I might not always get it right, it won't be for lack of trying on my part.
Same feeling applies for a job.
Maybe it's shameful to be a working "sheeple," but I think being bad at your job or not trying are more shameful.
It might be a bit different because I'm an engineer and there is professional pride (and people's lives) at stake, but I'd like to think I'd be just as dedicated if I was a cashier, being friendly and ringing up people's groceries.
EDIT: Showing up on time every day looking nice, too. It says "I give a fuck about what I do here, the money you're paying me isn't wasted"
This.
I don't get it why you equate work ethic with having to work jobs you don't like for people you don't like. That's just sucking at life, not work ethics fault you dirty commies...
Would you say fuck work ethics if you had your own business and the amount and quality of work was directly proportional to your income? Maybe that's why ya'll got shitty jobs...
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Epigallo
Stranger

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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14232076 - 04/03/11 04:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I guess I would say that someone who makes work their play( e.g. an enthusiastic hobbyist), will be better off in mind and body than someone who has a less fruitful type of play (e.g. playing first-person shooters).
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Simms]
#14232628 - 04/03/11 06:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well everybody is different obviously, and some people have it worse than others. Plenty of people work hard their whole lives and aren't happy. I'm just sayin, we are all born with dues that we have to pay, and there's no way around that. It's different for everybody. But just because you are born into a rich and comfortable life doesn't mean you don't have dues to pay (karma). You could very easily still have internal barriers or whatever that need to be worked through.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14240624 - 04/05/11 08:03 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Apparently, too much work ethic can kill ya: 
--
By: Joey Davis
Racking up overtime at work may not be worth it when it comes to your health, according to a recent study.
Researchers at UCL (University College London) found that people who work an 11-hour day increase their risk of heart disease by 67% compared to their co-workers who work a standard seven or eight hours.
In the study, 7,095 British civil servants aged between 39 and 62 were tracked over an 11 year span. During that time, 192 participants suffered a heart attack.
Those who worked 11 hours or more a day were 67% more likely to suffer a heart attack thank those working fewer hours.
Researchers, who published the findings in Annals of Internal Medicine, say the findings could be useful to general practitioners when calculating a patient's risk of heart disease when factoring in other indicators such as blood pressure, diabetes and smoking habits.
ABC News
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14241010 - 04/05/11 10:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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So can sitting on your fat ass all day doing nothing but collecting your welfare check.
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14241117 - 04/05/11 10:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Apparently, too much work ethic can kill ya: 
by my understanding of "ethic," it is your personal values, so it isn't exactly a quantity. It's just a person's own set of morals or philosophy pertaining to work.
So a certain set of values can kill you. That's why my work ethic includes that some things are just not worth killing yourself over.
-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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So can sitting on your fat ass all day doing nothing but collecting your welfare check.
Do you know what a Straw Man Fallacy is?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14241258 - 04/05/11 11:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: So can sitting on your fat ass all day doing nothing but collecting your welfare check.
Do you know what a Straw Man Fallacy is?
Yes. Do you? Maybe you should reread the definition. What does pointing out that sloth is also unhealthful have to do with a straw man? Or were you referring to your own post?
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13.step
cynical bastard



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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14241445 - 04/05/11 11:47 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Maybe you should reread the definition of work ethic
So we can avoid stupid arguments about how being a sucker at your job is bad for you.
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SheerTerror
ST



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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14241510 - 04/05/11 11:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well without a college education there ain't much for work opportunities unlike maybe the 1940s. Entry level jobs are $7.00 an hour, 40 hours a week. I once got a good job as welder at a major factory in the area and they paid $8.00 an hour, $240 a week. This is how it is currently in America is there ain't much out there for work opportunities and the cost of living continues to rise. So it just leaves work ethic and working multiple jobs to afford rent.
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13.step
cynical bastard



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Work ethic can actually cost you money...
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Work Ethic [Re: 13.step]
#14241578 - 04/05/11 12:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
13.step said:
Quote:
Maybe you should reread the definition of work ethic
So we can avoid stupid arguments about how being a sucker at your job is bad for you.
If I work hard and start my own company and keep working hard to grow it who's the sucker? Such diminished expectations from all the little boys and girls. Too bad. So many pity parties, so little time.
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SheerTerror
ST



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Re: Work Ethic [Re: 13.step]
#14241745 - 04/05/11 12:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
13.step said: Work ethic can actually cost you money...
How could good work ethic cost money? You mean by a injury at work? Wouldn't you just claim disability, unemployment and workman's comp?
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13.step
cynical bastard



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No...I see work ethic as a set of values by which you guide your work by, they are generally positive ones in regard to amount and quality of work.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but work ethic doesn't mean working hard, as much as it means respecting your job and doing it the best you can, now if your work is fixing cars, and the employers tells you to cut corners, and that conflicts with your work ethic, wouldn't you leave that job and thus lose money (hypothetically speaking)
Zappa what the hell are you talking about?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Work Ethic [Re: 13.step]
#14241968 - 04/05/11 01:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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That everybody here seems to think the only work you can do is as an employee of some giant faceless conglomerate. Sad.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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What does pointing out that sloth is also unhealthful have to do with a straw man?
That I'm not talking about sitting on asses or collecting welfare checks. I'm talking about doing your job competently and nothing more than that.
I even gave a working definition that included nothing about sitting on asses or welfare checks. You made up that strawman, then shot it down as if it has anything to do with the price of tea.
Maybe you should reread the definition.
Maybe you should reread this thread. I gave the working definition for the purposes of this thread quoted directly from Wiki.
Is this a reading comprehension problem? I can't help you with that.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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13.step
cynical bastard



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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14242142 - 04/05/11 02:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Here's a better look at what work ethic mean IMO: linkylink
That wiki page seems written by a dirty hippie...
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14242169 - 04/05/11 02:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: What does pointing out that sloth is also unhealthful have to do with a straw man?
That I'm not talking about sitting on asses or collecting welfare checks. I'm talking about doing your job competently and nothing more than that.
I even gave a working definition that included nothing about sitting on asses or welfare checks. You made up that strawman, then shot it down as if it has anything to do with the price of tea.
The link of yours I responded to was some asinine study about working long hours being a health threat. So is sitting on your big fat ass all day doing nothing. You brought up the health issue. Take your beating like a man.Quote:
Maybe you should reread the definition.
Maybe you should reread this thread. I gave the working definition for the purposes of this thread quoted directly from Wiki.
Is this a reading comprehension problem? I can't help you with that.
No, I suspect that there aren't many comprehension issues you can help with.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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So is sitting on your big fat ass all day
Except that the working definition for "lack of work ethics" we're using says nothing about sitting on asses or welfare checks. It's about not doing more than a competent job. Hence your made up strawman definition for lack of work ethic that is not on the table.
some asinine study about working long hours being a health threat
So you disagree that working long hours is a health threat?? Are you joking?
What part of that study is faulty that you characterize it as "asinine"?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14242307 - 04/05/11 02:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: some asinine study about working long hours being a health threat
So you disagree that working long hours is a health thread?? Are you joking?
You mean health threat, right?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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13.step
cynical bastard



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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Poid]
#14242320 - 04/05/11 02:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Nah I'm pretty sure he meant:

Given the fragile nature of his argument and all...
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Poid]
#14242449 - 04/05/11 03:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Damned speel checker.
Here's more on the study published in that "asinine" refereed medical journal Annals of Internal Medicine:
April 5, 2011 -- People who work 11 hours or more on a daily basis may be at increased risk of developing coronary heart disease, a British study indicates.
The researchers note that doctors often use information from the Framingham Risk Score, which identifies common factors of heart disease, to predict a patient’s 10-year risk of developing coronary heart disease.
This score includes risk factors such as age, sex, cholesterol levels, blood pressure, and smoking habits, but not psychosocial factors such as daily work hours.
Scientists at University College London studied data on 7,095 civil service workers between the ages of 39 and 62, who at the beginning of the research project in 1991-92 showed no signs of coronary heart disease after a medical examination.
The participants were screened for coronary heart disease every five years until 2004. The researchers found that adding information about the participants’ work habits to standard data used in the Framingham risk score modestly improved prediction of people who would develop coronary heart disease.
According to the researchers, adults who said they worked 11 hours a day or longer had a 67% higher risk for developing coronary heart disease than people putting in seven or eight hours a day.
After a median of 12.3 years, 192 of the participants had been diagnosed with coronary heart disease. Tracking Heart Risk
The study was based on data from the British Whitehall II study, an examination of British civil servants that was established in 1985 to identify characteristics of a working environment and health-related risk behaviors.
Participants, more likely to be men and younger, were between 49 and 53.6 years of age. They filled out questionnaires to record working hours.
According to the study:
* 54% of the participants worked seven hours a day. * 10.4% worked 11 hours or more.
The researchers say they were able to demonstrate that long working hours, when added to Framingham risk scores, better predicted coronary heart disease and death.
Because long working hours are common, the study has important implications, according to the researchers. They say incorporating information on working data in their assessments of patients may help doctors do a better job of evaluating people with coronary heart disease.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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13.step
cynical bastard



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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14242482 - 04/05/11 03:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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OK, and the correlation with work ethic is...?
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: Work Ethic [Re: 13.step]
#14242567 - 04/05/11 03:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Here's part of the definition again since scrolling back seems out of the question for some:
"Work ethic is a set of values based on hard work and diligence. It is also a belief in the moral benefit of work and its ability to enhance character. An example would be the Protestant work ethic."
By the working definition, work ethic involves "hard work". I.e. long hours. Therefor it is a risk to your health if you believe a respected, refereed medical journal.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14242610 - 04/05/11 03:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Once again I will repeat that a life of sloth is also detrimental to your health. Do I need to post a study about that?
I see you have abandoned your "straw man" nonsense. And you still haven't spent any time dealing with the fact that a work ethic is not restricted to putting in long hours working for other people. Some people work hard for themselves. What a concept! I'm glad you're happy with doing nothing.
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meatcakeman
the search for bodhisattva



Registered: 07/03/07
Posts: 8,380
Loc: el sol
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14242684 - 04/05/11 04:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Here's part of the definition again since scrolling back seems out of the question for some:
"Work ethic is a set of values based on hard work and diligence. It is also a belief in the moral benefit of work and its ability to enhance character. An example would be the Protestant work ethic."
By the working definition, work ethic involves "hard work". I.e. long hours. Therefor it is a risk to your health if you believe a respected, refereed medical journal.
sure, work ethic might be detrimental to your health, but what is 'health' when you're destined to die? in such a dilemma, happiness through work ethic might be a far more purposeful route rather than maintaining 'health' from doing nothing. work ethic requires attaching a purpose to something. such an investment in time and sweat creates a deep metaphysical bond between the worker and his work. it becomes a mean to an end. achieving our goals is a very healthy way to maintain our mental health.
-------------------- 大开眼界
 
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Indeed. There is always the "life worth living" question. Not in regards to what anybody else values but strictly in terms of what the liver perceives.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Once again I will repeat that a life of sloth is also detrimental to your health.
Once again, I agree. But the definition of LACK OF WORK ETHIC is not to be a sloth. The definition (for purposes of this thread and posted near the top) is to not do more than a competent job. Hence your sloth comment is a strawman.
Why is that so hard?
Do I need to post a study about that?
No one is disputing that. What I'm disputing is your characterization of a study demonstrating that working long hours is harmful to your health. You called it "asinine".
So if that study is "asinine", tell me in what way. What is faulty about that study that renders it "asinine"?
And you still haven't spent any time dealing with the fact that a work ethic is not restricted to putting in long hours working for other people.
JE-ZUS!
It is the WORKING DEFINITION FOR THIS THREAD. If you want to start another thread with another definition for work ethic, be my guest. I started this thread on the premise that the POSTED DEFINITION from Wiki early in the thread IS the topic on the table. THAT is the definition we're discussing, NOT something else you made up. That is your straw man.
You are debating something not on the table (sloth and welfare) and shooting it down as if it's something I put forth. That's a strawman by definition.
Why is this so hard?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Posts: 81,741
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14243320 - 04/05/11 06:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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1. According to the definition you linked to, no, it isn't what you say it is but all fucking right it will rest.
2. The title of this thread is simply "Work Ethic". You have made several posts positing that you think working hard is for schmucks.
3. You should get some exercise.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Once again I will repeat that a life of sloth is also detrimental to your health.
Basically, you're saying that not working is necessarily detrimental to your health? Don't you know that you can not work, and still be healthy?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Posts: 81,741
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Poid]
#14243382 - 04/05/11 06:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Once again I will repeat that a life of sloth is also detrimental to your health.
Basically, you're saying that not working is necessarily detrimental to your health? Don't you know that you can not work, and still be healthy? 
You can also work and be healthy. Can Poid follow a point? Or does Poid only jump in and comment out of context?
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meatcakeman
the search for bodhisattva



Registered: 07/03/07
Posts: 8,380
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Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Poid is Poid.
:poid:
-------------------- 大开眼界
 
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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2. The title of this thread is simply "Work Ethic". You have made several posts positing that you think working hard is for schmucks.
Well, you got me there. The title could have been better. And though I didn't exactly say that working hard is for schmucks, that's close enough and I stand by it.
If I worked, I would do it competently, but I would do no more than that. I think I'd be the better off for it. I read in the paper every day about people who worked their ass off and are now being evicted after being laid off by the employer they gave so much to.
Not that I fault the employer necessarily. But when it comes time to lose money or let someone go, employers will (sometimes reluctantly) let someone go, work ethic or not. So work ethic (beyond competent performance) counts for little with me.
3. You should get some exercise.
Where are you getting this? I'm in excellent shape.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Once again I will repeat that a life of sloth is also detrimental to your health.
Basically, you're saying that not working is necessarily detrimental to your health? Don't you know that you can not work, and still be healthy? 
You can also work and be healthy.
I know; you seemed to be implying that one cannot be healthy unless they work when you said that a life of sloth is detrimental to one's health.
If that is what you were implying, then, obviously, you are fucking wrong; a person can be lazy/slothful, and still be healthy. Laziness does not necessarily cause bad health.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14243412 - 04/05/11 06:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have extracted a great amount of personal joy and reaped not just financial rewards from working hard. If your going to do something do it with all your heart.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: If your going to do something do it with all your heart.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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13.step
cynical bastard



Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14247842 - 04/06/11 02:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Here's part of the definition again since scrolling back seems out of the question for some:
"Work ethic is a set of values based on hard work and diligence. It is also a belief in the moral benefit of work and its ability to enhance character. An example would be the Protestant work ethic."
By the working definition, work ethic involves "hard work". I.e. long hours. Therefor it is a risk to your health if you believe a respected, refereed medical journal.
Talk about scrolling back, you're incapable of reading my response from a couple of posts up...
Ok by that definition you are right, that definition is retarded though. Look again at what I posted, any moron can edit wiki and that seems to be the case here. And quit barking about a working definition it's posted on the second or third page so it's just an argument for your point of view.
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Not to be taken seriously by any means!
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: 13.step]
#14247896 - 04/06/11 02:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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That definition came from the Wiki. It's also essentially the same definition given by reference.com, thefreedictionary.com, and merriam-webster.com.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/work+ethic a belief in the moral benefit and importance of work and its inherent ability to strengthen character.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/work+ethic (Philosophy) a belief in the moral value of work (often in the phrase Protestant work ethic)
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/work%2Bethic : a belief in work as a moral good
Ok by that definition you are right, that definition is retarded though.
The thing that is retarded here is your opinion.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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13.step
cynical bastard



Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14247986 - 04/06/11 03:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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You know there are no retarded opinions...or defintions for that matter, right?...
Quote:
Work ethic is a set of values based on hard work and diligence.
This part I disagree with find retarded, the definitions u posted hardly include it...so what's your point?
As I see it you get work ethic confused with protestant ethic.
Also here is again a link that pretty much sums up how I see work ethic: work ethic
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Not to be taken seriously by any means!
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: 13.step]
#14247997 - 04/06/11 03:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Also here is again a link that pretty much sums up how I see work ethic
Except that this is my thread I started to discuss the definition I gave, not the one you have in mind. You are welcome to start your own thread with your own definition. This one's already taken.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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13.step
cynical bastard



Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14248051 - 04/06/11 03:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Dude, chill...I'll get out of your thread if you go all butthurt about loosing an argument...
And you gave the definition on the 3rd page, so that doesn't really count...
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Not to be taken seriously by any means!
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14248184 - 04/06/11 03:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Also here is again a link that pretty much sums up how I see work ethic
Except that this is my thread I started to discuss the definition I gave, not the one you have in mind. You are welcome to start your own thread with your own definition. This one's already taken.
Are we redefining the term 'work ethic' to suit our purposes? I'm skeptical about the validity of defining a word so that it fits ones argument, sounds like an extension of circular logic.
As far as the idea you're purporting, of simply working hard and making sacrifices for your job (over time, holidays) - my opinion on whether this is a positive or negative thing depends on the individual's motivation.
A lot of people are stuck in dead end jobs and have to sacrifice just to keep the shitty job.
On the other hand a lot of people are either self employed or have a job they love and enjoy the work or what they're working for. In these cases making sacrifices and working over time seems positive. For example, I'm a musician. My job involves sitting around on drugs playing guitar, I do overtime and holidays - and I like it.
As far as an actual personal moral code based on working hard, it seems to be a good thing to me as long as the playing field is level and the individual is getting the return they work for. Most people I know, work too long and hard with a fractional return. Many but not most, are on the positive side of the scale.
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: ahchela]
#14248218 - 04/06/11 03:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Are we redefining the term 'work ethic' to suit our purposes?
No, we're using the definition given by at least four authoritative sources.
But even if I decided to, for the purposes of this thread, define work ethic as a green booger, so what? It's my thread. My definition. My topic. We're discussing what I propose, no matter what that is.
You can start a thread of your own if you don't like mine.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid] 1
#14248240 - 04/06/11 03:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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No PSP thread is complete wihtout lame-ass definition arguments.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Define "definition".
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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zappaisgod said:Quote:
And you still haven't spent any time dealing with the fact that a work ethic is not restricted to putting in long hours working for other people.
I agree with this. And earlier in this thread, someone said you are "selfish" if you work for yourself. Apparently there are people who think that working for a corporation is the Highest Level of Good.
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: 13.step]
#14248727 - 04/06/11 05:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
13.step said: You can't really read, can you? Where does it say that you are a sucker if you do your best at a shitty job in what you just quoted?
And the employer cares very much about your hard work because you are working for him and he is giving you his money for that work, so naturally he wants the most he can get, if you're expecting hugs an kisses, then yeah...fuck those guys.
Also here is what I think about the matter:
Quote:
13.step said:
Quote:
Kid_Orgo said:
Quote:
Weltall said: I always thought work ethic was the want and willingness to do a job and do it correctly to the best of your own ability.
To me, work ethic is taking the time and effort to "do it right," whatever that may mean in any context.
I don't cut corners on tasks, I hate it when people do. While I might not always get it right, it won't be for lack of trying on my part.
Same feeling applies for a job.
Maybe it's shameful to be a working "sheeple," but I think being bad at your job or not trying are more shameful.
It might be a bit different because I'm an engineer and there is professional pride (and people's lives) at stake, but I'd like to think I'd be just as dedicated if I was a cashier, being friendly and ringing up people's groceries.
EDIT: Showing up on time every day looking nice, too. It says "I give a fuck about what I do here, the money you're paying me isn't wasted"
This.
I don't get it why you equate work ethic with having to work jobs you don't like for people you don't like. That's just sucking at life, not work ethics fault you dirty commies...
Would you say fuck work ethics if you had your own business and the amount and quality of work was directly proportional to your income? Maybe that's why ya'll got shitty jobs...
I didn't say work ethic means you have to work jobs you don't like for people you don't like. Maybe YOU have reading comprehension problems. I think that work ethic means doing the best you can, EVEN IN a shitty job. I didn't say I have a shitty job now, I said I have workED (past tense) at shitty jobs. That was because I wasn't born to rich parents.
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Quote:
Diploid said: Are we redefining the term 'work ethic' to suit our purposes?
No, we're using the definition given by at least four authoritative sources.
But even if I decided to, for the purposes of this thread, define work ethic as a green booger, so what? It's my thread. My definition. My topic. We're discussing what I propose, no matter what that is.
You can start a thread of your own if you don't like mine. 
This is a strange argument, but whatever. By your definition, work ethic being tied to some sense of morality... Morality is extremely subjective... so speaking in the basic universal terms of morality, work ethic would probably be neutral.
As far as personal, I think that would depend what you get out of your job. Doing something that has meaning to you, could tie it in morally.
My own work doesn't have much to do with morality, so I would say its irrelevant. Though a lot of hard work is required to get anything done in the field or really enjoy it, it has nothing to do with morality.
If you were a doctor in an ER then I could see how morality would be tied in, if someone's life is in your hands you'll probably feel a strong sense of responsibility.
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: No PSP thread is complete wihtout lame-ass definition arguments. 
It is pretty boring.
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
Edited by ahchela (04/06/11 06:49 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: ahchela]
#14249911 - 04/06/11 09:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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By your definition, work ethic being tied to some sense of morality...
Also by Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_ethic "a belief in the moral benefit of work and its ability to enhance character"
And also by reference.com: by http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/work+ethic "a belief in the moral benefit and importance of work and its inherent ability to strengthen character."
And also by free dictionary.com: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/work+ethic "a belief in the moral value of work (often in the phrase Protestant work ethic)"
And even by Merriam Webster. You know. Those people who write dictionaries for aliving?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/work%2Bethic "a belief in work as a moral good"
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14250332 - 04/06/11 10:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I stand corrected, looks like every dictionary I can find says that.
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Work Ethic [Re: Diploid]
#14251882 - 04/07/11 07:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Once again I will repeat that a life of sloth is also detrimental to your health.
Once again, I agree. But the definition of LACK OF WORK ETHIC is not to be a sloth. The definition (for purposes of this thread and posted near the top) is to not do more than a competent job. Hence your sloth comment is a strawman.
Why is that so hard?
If that's your attitude, you're probably living very slothfully. The point of this thread is anti-work ethic and it is a very fine line between that attitude and outright laziness.
Do I need to post a study about that?
Quote:
You are debating something not on the table (sloth and welfare) and shooting it down as if it's something I put forth. That's a strawman by definition.
somebody call the waaaaambulance
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Quote:
HippieChick8 said: zappaisgod said:Quote:
And you still haven't spent any time dealing with the fact that a work ethic is not restricted to putting in long hours working for other people.
I agree with this. And earlier in this thread, someone said you are "selfish" if you work for yourself. Apparently there are people who think that working for a corporation is the Highest Level of Good.
No shit?! People actually have different preferences? Why that's outrageous!
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
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this whole thread is unethical
-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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