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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: faceyneck] * 1
    #14200255 - 03/28/11 08:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

nice work faceyaneck!

congrats. i been on mind vacation. but i think im back...


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Invisiblevirus1824
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: eatyualive]
    #14202373 - 03/29/11 05:43 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I've tried a tub without bagging it all together. but it fruited prematurely. I did stuff the polyfill quite tight but forgot to wrap the lid of the tub with cling wrap. This might have caused FAE to occur.
I'l try another one soon.


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: virus1824]
    #14202410 - 03/29/11 06:02 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

virus1824 said:
I've tried a tub without bagging it all together. but it fruited prematurely. I did stuff the polyfill quite tight but forgot to wrap the lid of the tub with cling wrap. This might have caused FAE to occur.
I'l try another one soon.




There are many causes of early-pinning. So, I have some questions if you don't mind. :lol:

1. What substrate ratio did you use?

2. What was your substrate?

3. What was your spawn-to-bulk ratio?

4. Was your culture tested on agar before use?

5. How long was it in colonization before it started fruiting?

6. Did you mix your spawn and bulk substrate together or just layer it?

7. Was your bulk substrate properly pasteurized?

A culture with contamination in it - say a small bacterial infestation - can cause early pinning.

Sorry for the 20-questions. :lol:


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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14202420 - 03/29/11 06:08 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Lol Hold on.

1 1:3

2. Coir Gypsum Perlite.

3. Same as 1? sorry if i misinterpret

4. Culture is obsoletely clean 100% guaranteed.

5. 3 weeks about.

6. Layered this one

7. I don't have a meat thermometer But i followed RR's jar pasteurization tek and am quite certain i do it right :lol:

Gimme a diagnosis doc :jamming:

Ps. I do add it was colonizing at about 25C but in the last week the temp dropped to 19C constant. (we use heat from pipes runing through the building, if the weather picks up people shut off their heat and it gets colder in our room)


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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread *DELETED* [Re: virus1824]
    #14202428 - 03/29/11 06:11 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by Morelman

Reason for deletion: Never again...



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Invisiblevirus1824
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: Morelman]
    #14202429 - 03/29/11 06:12 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

No. It was shut the whole time.


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InvisibleMorelman
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread *DELETED* [Re: virus1824]
    #14202446 - 03/29/11 06:23 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by Morelman

Reason for deletion: Never again...



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Invisiblevirus1824
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: Morelman]
    #14202462 - 03/29/11 06:29 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

half a quart substrate followed by a nice layer of bulk on top so nothing was exposed. Colonization was quite vigorous at first. Slowed, stopped and then pinned like mad at about 85%. no fanning no opening the lid :shrug:

But we will see if this was a one off, although any further feedback is much appreciated.


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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: virus1824]
    #14202717 - 03/29/11 08:47 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

virus1824 said:
half a quart substrate followed by a nice layer of bulk on top so nothing was exposed. Colonization was quite vigorous at first. Slowed, stopped and then pinned like mad at about 85%. no fanning no opening the lid :shrug:

But we will see if this was a one off, although any further feedback is much appreciated.




It sounds to me like your mycelium ran into a contam barrier, perhaps some bacteria colonized that 15% of the sub before the mycelium could overtake it.  The mycelium recognizes that it can't overtake anymore space, figures it's 100% colonized (which is a pinning trigger.)

IME if this occurs, green usually starts popping up in the spots that were previously contaminated by bacteria, and then it's all over.

If this did happen, the most probable cause is overhydrated substrate.

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Invisiblevirus1824
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: Sillicybin]
    #14202727 - 03/29/11 08:51 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

i doubt it's a contamination. Coir is pretty contam resistant for starters. The spawn was 100% colonized and free of contaminations. The bulk was on perfect field capacity. I'l have a update by tomorrow since the tub is at a friends house and he is coming home tonight. so we will see by then. The root cause will be found no matter what.




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Edited by virus1824 (03/29/11 08:57 AM)

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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: virus1824]
    #14202903 - 03/29/11 09:51 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Im going to buy a Brand new rubbermaid, mix substrate/poo, and let it colonize. No bag in my fruiting conditions. When ready to fruit i will then cut the holes with a fine razor and add the fan! O and ill def sterilize tub. And no bag inside the tub either. Its too much trouble. I remove substrate after dunk anyway so i can pick pinnage


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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: highc]
    #14202932 - 03/29/11 10:00 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

highc said:
Im going to buy a Brand new rubbermaid, mix substrate/poo, and let it colonize. No bag in my fruiting conditions. When ready to fruit i will then cut the holes with a fine razor and add the fan! O and ill def sterilize tub. And no bag inside the tub either. Its too much trouble. I remove substrate after dunk anyway so i can pick pinnage




This is going to be very hard to do. A razor isn't gonna cut it" in this case man .... :shrug:

A drill is a better option.

You also are going to need the holes cut prior to spawning or you will wind up with problems during colonization.

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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #14202941 - 03/29/11 10:02 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Hot ass razor. But i thought as long as the lid wasn't sealed tight you would be okay?


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: virus1824]
    #14203518 - 03/29/11 12:36 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

virus1824 said:
i doubt it's a contamination. Coir is pretty contam resistant for starters. The spawn was 100% colonized and free of contaminations. The bulk was on perfect field capacity. I'l have a update by tomorrow since the tub is at a friends house and he is coming home tonight. so we will see by then. The root cause will be found no matter what.







Yeah, 1. and 3. were definitely the same thing. Sorry, I was tired. :penguindog:

I've tried layering with coir, and it never once fully colonized. I tried it about 15 different times, and out of those 15, maybe 3 ended up fully colonizing. All started pinning before full colonization as well. This was with properly pasteurized coir even. :justdontknow:

Quote:

7. I don't have a meat thermometer But i followed RR's jar pasteurization tek and am quite certain i do it right :lol:




There's no possible way to properly pasteurize without a meat thermometer unless you've done it over and over again many times with a meat thermometer first to know the process.

That means no, it was not properly pasteurized. :lol: That, along with the layering of the substrate, most likely caused the early pinning. The improper pasteurizing easily could've allowed for something to take hold on some of the substrate.

Coir rarely fully colonizes for anyone. I have yet to see a picture of fully-colonized coir. I've seen it get white and fluffy on the top, but then the sides and bottom remain wispy at best. I've grown hundreds and hundreds of pounds of coir and manure, and assisted about that many people with their grows as well, and I've learned both manure and coir need to be properly pasteurized to avoid bad results from time-to-time, for most people. Also, for whatever reason, manure is far LESS prone to contamination than coir, if used as a mushroom substrate. I don't know why exactly, but I have my theories.

So yeah, get a meat thermometer. They're less than $10.00 worldwide, usually around $5.00. Properly pasteurize, and mix your spawn and substrate together.

Follow this procedure for making up your tub. Just be sure to properly pasteurize your substrate this time, even though large_dose doesn't. He's special for whatever reason. :imspecial: :laugh2:

Everything large_dose does in that tek is what I do, regarding tub assembly, and colonization/fruiting procedure. I do add the extra step of loosening up the polyfil as loose as it can be at the time of fruiting, and begin to fan the substrate. (...if you're wondering; no, I don't fan during colonization. :lol: I've done that in the past to prove a point.)

Hope it works out better for you this time. :kenthumbup:


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #14203520 - 03/29/11 12:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ProfessorPinHead said:
Quote:

highc said:
Im going to buy a Brand new rubbermaid, mix substrate/poo, and let it colonize. No bag in my fruiting conditions. When ready to fruit i will then cut the holes with a fine razor and add the fan! O and ill def sterilize tub. And no bag inside the tub either. Its too much trouble. I remove substrate after dunk anyway so i can pick pinnage




This is going to be very hard to do. A razor isn't gonna cut it" in this case man .... :shrug:

A drill is a better option.

You also are going to need the holes cut prior to spawning or you will wind up with problems during colonization.





Some people gotta learn the hard way, both for tub assembly and air exchange.

...I did. :lol:


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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14203567 - 03/29/11 12:46 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

me too......... :shrug:

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Invisiblevirus1824
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14203599 - 03/29/11 12:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

faceyneck said:
Quote:

virus1824 said:
i doubt it's a contamination. Coir is pretty contam resistant for starters. The spawn was 100% colonized and free of contaminations. The bulk was on perfect field capacity. I'l have a update by tomorrow since the tub is at a friends house and he is coming home tonight. so we will see by then. The root cause will be found no matter what.







Yeah, 1. and 3. were definitely the same thing. Sorry, I was tired. :penguindog:

I've tried layering with coir, and it never once fully colonized. I tried it about 15 different times, and out of those 15, maybe 3 ended up fully colonizing. All started pinning before full colonization as well. This was with properly pasteurized coir even. :justdontknow:

Quote:

7. I don't have a meat thermometer But i followed RR's jar pasteurization tek and am quite certain i do it right :lol:




There's no possible way to properly pasteurize without a meat thermometer unless you've done it over and over again many times with a meat thermometer first to know the process.

That means no, it was not properly pasteurized. :lol: That, along with the layering of the substrate, most likely caused the early pinning. The improper pasteurizing easily could've allowed for something to take hold on some of the substrate.

Coir rarely fully colonizes for anyone. I have yet to see a picture of fully-colonized coir. I've seen it get white and fluffy on the top, but then the sides and bottom remain wispy at best. I've grown hundreds and hundreds of pounds of coir and manure, and assisted about that many people with their grows as well, and I've learned both manure and coir need to be properly pasteurized to avoid bad results from time-to-time, for most people. Also, for whatever reason, manure is far LESS prone to contamination than coir, if used as a mushroom substrate. I don't know why exactly, but I have my theories.

So yeah, get a meat thermometer. They're less than $10.00 worldwide, usually around $5.00. Properly pasteurize, and mix your spawn and substrate together.

Follow this procedure for making up your tub. Just be sure to properly pasteurize your substrate this time, even though large_dose doesn't. He's special for whatever reason. :imspecial: :laugh2:

Everything large_dose does in that tek is what I do, regarding tub assembly, and colonization/fruiting procedure. I do add the extra step of loosening up the polyfil as loose as it can be at the time of fruiting, and begin to fan the substrate. (...if you're wondering; no, I don't fan during colonization. :lol: I've done that in the past to prove a point.)

Hope it works out better for you this time. :kenthumbup:




Hey good info and much appreciated! Im doing a tub at the moment with mixing (gotta try everything you know)  I'l take the advice and invest a couple of bucks in a meat thermo.
Lol btw this aint my first tub or anything. I've had my ups and downs but this was the first that pinned prematurely. So you don't have to show me tutorials :wink:


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: virus1824]
    #14203849 - 03/29/11 01:49 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I've been growing for almost 6 years now, and I still read through other people's teks. :wink:


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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14203881 - 03/29/11 01:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

faceyneck said:
Quote:

Ryath said:
Quote:

Landslide said:
So steer a noob in the right direction here.....

Now we are saying that bags might not be necessary. I get that. But what would you do if you are using for example Morelman's Modified Tub ?

Would covering the holes with micropore allow enough GE without too much AE? Or because of the small number of holes, would it be better to just leave them be open? Or am I way off with this idea?




I'd also like to see what is recommended for this.

And even though I don't yet have that green flag from you guys, I have a hybrid tub pretty much uncovered on day 3-4 of colonization. I'm curious to see what happens, even if it leads to contam hell (not that I want this...), so that I know for certain not to ever do that again.

I think the greater concern is the substrate drying out so long as everything was properly pasteurized because hpoo is pretty contam resistant, right? wrong? fail?




I'd go with micropore tape over the holes, and manual fanning once every other day. :super:

The other option IS to place in a bag, loosely, and open it up to 'burp' it once a day. :thumbup:




just wanted to update on the hybrid... the tub ended up having a bag over it with some 1-2" holes on the top and left sides. the right side is the open-end part of the bag. there's a fan in the closet, but it isn't on more than an hour or two a day.



DEFINITELY loving properly pasteurized poo-based sub thus far!

However, I either need to up the spawn ratio or rush the spring weather to warm our house a bit more because everything takes longer than "normal." today is day 12 on that tub...

late for class! shit! :peace:


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Edited by Primal Call (04/03/11 01:16 AM)

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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: Primal Call]
    #14203900 - 03/29/11 02:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

That's coming along nicely! :whoo:

It is colonizing slowly, yeah. :ohwell: Probably due to high levels of CO2.

mono-shotgun-hybrids are a pain in the ass, I've heard from many people. :shrug:

What was your spawn:bulk ratio again?


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