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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: bigmike7104]
    #14201980 - 03/29/11 02:17 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bigmike7104 said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I've heard lots of people say they've gotten so good at meditation that they do it without meaning to every moment of their lives. At this assertion, I :facepalm:.




maybe they just meant they were better able to bring their meditation practice to their daily lives and living in the moment much better.




I understand that. I like to meditate while driving, hiking, bored in class, stressed, etc.

But still, in my experience, if you don't practice meditation - and by that I mean sitting down, from time to time, to straighten your back and silence your thoughts, over and over again, for your entire life - then you'll probably lose the ability to meditate in the context of everyday life experience. Just speaking from experience here.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleJanamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14201996 - 03/29/11 02:21 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

bigmike7104 said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I've heard lots of people say they've gotten so good at meditation that they do it without meaning to every moment of their lives. At this assertion, I :facepalm:.




maybe they just meant they were better able to bring their meditation practice to their daily lives and living in the moment much better.




I understand that. I like to meditate while driving, hiking, bored in class, stressed, etc.

But still, in my experience, if you don't practice meditation - and by that I mean sitting down, from time to time, to straighten your back and silence your thoughts, over and over again, for your entire life - then you'll probably lose the ability to meditate in the context of everyday life experience. Just speaking from experience here.




Thinking is forced on me, I am in my own world the majority of the time thinking of logical theories or spatial oriented systems. I do not know what meditation tries to achieve, but technically this could be biological changes.

Call it spirituality, I dont care. I look at facts but I understand spirituality is there for a reason. Just how we are almost innately religious, it plays on our faults and does it well.

Just like how I don't believe in god or don't know yet but I don't think god should not believed in. There are two symmetries to life. Comfort and knowledge. One is our beast form and one is our evolutionary change. Question is, which will win?

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Offlinetimelapses
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: cacharstar]
    #14202001 - 03/29/11 02:23 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

cacharstar said:
I can focus on something but not stop thinking. you have to distract yourself and then you are asleep. If you try and sleep it doesn't work I just lay there and think about thinking what to think:tunnel:





Reminds me of "No rest for cross-tops in my mind".  On my own here we go.  As time ticks by, and still I try...


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Janamil]
    #14202006 - 03/29/11 02:25 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Janamil said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I disagree that the human condition allows perspectives outside of your own, even with very hard work and/or insanity.

Sorry Jan, but you're stuck in that wacky head of yours for the time being.

I know full well people have head problems. Hell, I've got plenty of head problems of my own, believe it or not. The fact that I can type out concise, well-ordered posts should not be taken as an indication of sanity or emotional balance.




I am right now, currently fine. It is keeping this state of mind that has become troublesome. Trust me when I say I have fixed my brain in this state, I have achieved CNS balance. I can fall back on my left brain, yet have complete abstract thinking when needed. Almost like a switch. I have complete control over my emotions. Hell I have proper emotions now, Emotional means really fuck up with neurological disorders connected to the CNS. Not only that, I feel lighter my muscles work correctly, my joints are not blocky, ect.

It is ignorance to believe this will never be achieved, Especially soon. We are understanding more and more by the day. We evolve by the year in technology now, not the decade. I have complete peace right now, No anxiety, ability to listen to my surroundings. I have literally hit balance, It is not impossible. It is just very hard. Really, if I can keep this state I will be happy and I know many people would want to hit this state.

I guess I wasn't very clear, of course I can type this out differently now but everything is gone. I even had Shitty feelings, pressure all over my body and that is gone. I'm still working on a theory, I believe it has to do with CSF. Believe it or not, it is possible to somewhat control the brain in extremes. Its just understanding these extremes and what causes them and then bringing practical outcomes is what is hard. We are far in halfway there.




If you look at my first post, you'll see that I fundamentally agree with you in the idea that we could, theoretically, in our lifetimes, experience the complete erasure of suffering and the ego, and learn to merge with the minds of others and with God at will.

That having been said - such a change has not yet arrived. None of us who function in what we call "everyday life" are capable of this. If you'd like to give up eating, drinking, sleeping, friends, and life in general, then you might find some manner of permanently losing your mind, and probably dying shortly thereafter, to be palatable.

I love people and I love myself, so I'm going down with my ship; I plan to cling to this life and to my suffering until such time as those things have been obviated. And in the meantime I'm going to give my life and my suffering to that goal as a sacrifice.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleJanamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14202020 - 03/29/11 02:28 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

Janamil said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I disagree that the human condition allows perspectives outside of your own, even with very hard work and/or insanity.

Sorry Jan, but you're stuck in that wacky head of yours for the time being.

I know full well people have head problems. Hell, I've got plenty of head problems of my own, believe it or not. The fact that I can type out concise, well-ordered posts should not be taken as an indication of sanity or emotional balance.




I am right now, currently fine. It is keeping this state of mind that has become troublesome. Trust me when I say I have fixed my brain in this state, I have achieved CNS balance. I can fall back on my left brain, yet have complete abstract thinking when needed. Almost like a switch. I have complete control over my emotions. Hell I have proper emotions now, Emotional means really fuck up with neurological disorders connected to the CNS. Not only that, I feel lighter my muscles work correctly, my joints are not blocky, ect.

It is ignorance to believe this will never be achieved, Especially soon. We are understanding more and more by the day. We evolve by the year in technology now, not the decade. I have complete peace right now, No anxiety, ability to listen to my surroundings. I have literally hit balance, It is not impossible. It is just very hard. Really, if I can keep this state I will be happy and I know many people would want to hit this state.

I guess I wasn't very clear, of course I can type this out differently now but everything is gone. I even had Shitty feelings, pressure all over my body and that is gone. I'm still working on a theory, I believe it has to do with CSF. Believe it or not, it is possible to somewhat control the brain in extremes. Its just understanding these extremes and what causes them and then bringing practical outcomes is what is hard. We are far in halfway there.




If you look at my first post, you'll see that I fundamentally agree with you in the idea that we could, theoretically, in our lifetimes, experience the complete erasure of suffering and the ego, and learn to merge with the minds of others and with God at will.

That having been said - such a change has not yet arrived. None of us who function in what we call "everyday life" are capable of this. If you'd like to give up eating, drinking, sleeping, friends, and life in general, then you might find some manner of permanently losing your mind, and probably dying shortly thereafter, to be palatable.

I love people and I love myself, so I'm going down with my ship; I plan to cling to this life and to my suffering until such time as those things have been obviated. And in the meantime I'm going to give myself to that end.




I think your looking a little to deep here. Some people have neurological problems, Simple turns. Overclock or under-clock, and then the homeostasis involved in that. All that Ive found is an easy fix to an extreme. Which includes a calmness, but not a inhibition like most medication. Which acts direction on the etiological means of most of these neurological disorders.

Spiritual is different, Spiritual plays on the human psychology. Spirituality is part of you and it is nothing but still quite important.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Janamil]
    #14202030 - 03/29/11 02:32 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Meditation is not an inhibition, it's a full realization. It's the engagement of the mind's ability to simply acknowledge and accept its own thoughts, rather than to be held subject to them.

I'm not looking too deep anywhere. I've got neurological problems, simple turns too. Have you seen me in my "Soldier of God" mode? It's retarded. Also, I spent half of my adolescence sincerely intending to take female hormones and to have my wiener chopped off, and I'm still on the fence about that one at 24.

And here I'm not even getting into my alcoholism or various psychological drug addictions etc.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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OfflineAzure Essence
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Janamil]
    #14202035 - 03/29/11 02:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Zazen

No more explanation is necessary.

Zazen.

Also, meditation isnt a means to an end. It should NEVER be a means to an end. It's the end itself.

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14202042 - 03/29/11 02:36 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

My mind used to run all the time. I couldn't even sleep because of it. After practicing meditation for awhile, I find it much easier to turn off. Sometimes when I'm involved in something that I really care about, it is harder for me to turn off, but still achieveable.

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InvisibleJanamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14202053 - 03/29/11 02:40 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Meditation is not an inhibition, it's a full realization. It's the engagement of the mind's ability to simply acknowledge and accept its own thoughts, rather than to be held subject to them.

I'm not looking too deep anywhere. I've got neurological problems, simple turns too. Have you seen me in my "Soldier of God" mode? It's retarded. Also, I spent half of my adolescence sincerely intending to take female hormones and to have my wiener chopped off, and I'm still on the fence about that one at 24.




Theirs quite a few people that will benefit from an overall CNS shift, Seems to trigger Neurogenesis on the ADD to ADHD spectrum as-well. I do not know about the opposite.

Meditation is intriguing though. Its time to do some empirical research. I wonder if its just the brain growing in a way you want it to(Neuroplasticity), as you could with learning something or if it is a chemical change due to well.. Theres placebos in medicine. This accounts for some sort of physical change through psychosomatic means.

I wonder how far it goes...

Still. Meditation or not though. This should help a lot of you, look into it. You can look up Targacept for the company working on most of this but half of there things are pretty quiet for now.

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14202058 - 03/29/11 02:42 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The way I started was by counting my inhale and exhale. While this doesn't stop your thinking, it focuses it to a single point/topic to keep it from wandering too much. If I found myself going of on a tangent (which happened a lot at 1st) I would just direct attention back to the breathing/counting.

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OfflineSpiralout112
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: teknix]
    #14202061 - 03/29/11 02:43 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Yea exactly without any practice or training you're a victim of your mind cartwheeling around, I've gotten probably 10 minutes without a single thought with a certain meditation technique, but yea IF you can keep it that way you'll be so super aware that you just might be able to pull those stunts like knowing every licence plate in the parking lot or whatever.

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OfflineAzure Essence
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Janamil]
    #14202064 - 03/29/11 02:44 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Yes regular meditation does alter the shape of the brain, there have been multiple studies on this.

Also an unrelated comment you may find useful, but any change in physiology will create an immediate change in mental state. That's why Tony Robbins has people getting all pumped up, and not eating all say and staying awake for like 36 hours, but all that's needed really to 'access' that is getting your heart going pretty intense for a few minutes.

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InvisibleJanamil


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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Spiralout112]
    #14202070 - 03/29/11 02:45 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
The way I started was by counting my inhale and exhale. While this doesn't stop your thinking, it focuses it to a single point/topic to keep it from wandering too much. If I found myself going of on a tangent (which happened a lot at 1st) I would just direct attention back to the breathing/counting.




I was out in my living room just sitting staring at the window and was allowed to completely silence my thoughts and listen to my senses, I could go very far but I smoked weed abit ago so its start to shift back into in a different state, was worth the increased creativity while it lasted though.

Quote:

Spiralout112 said:
Yea exactly without any practice or training you're a victim of your mind cartwheeling around, I've gotten probably 10 minutes without a single thought with a certain meditation technique, but yea IF you can keep it that way you'll be so super aware that you just might be able to pull those stunts like knowing every licence plate in the parking lot or whatever.




Being prisoner of your own mind is not an inhibition for some people, not a flaw. This is the important difference.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Spiralout112]
    #14202081 - 03/29/11 02:52 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I just dedicate myself to the experience of breaths going in and out of my lungs. Anytime I think of something else, I simply acknowledge it. I don't judge it, or involve myself in the experience of it, because I don't need to. Then I move my attention back to my breathing. Once this has been established, I begin to gently loosen my muscles.

I don't really know where to go from there because I usually spend the rest of my session in the state that follows. I'm pretty sure this type of relaxed, serene state is the aim of meditation, but I could be wrong. I don't get to this state every time. In fact, oftentimes I'll spend an entire session just trying to silence my thoughts without any kind of lasting success. But I don't judge sessions like these as a failure. It's just a meditation session like any other.

When I do this practice regularly, for its own sake and on its own time (you really do have to set time aside from your hectic schedule of constantly posting on the Shroomery), I find it becomes a simple matter to take hardships and discomfort in stride in the pursuit of higher goals than alleviating hardships and discomfort.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14202099 - 03/29/11 03:00 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I just dedicate myself to the experience of breaths going in and out of my lungs. Anytime I think of something else, I simply acknowledge it. I don't judge it, or involve myself in the experience of it, because I don't need to. Then I move my attention back to my breathing. Once this has been established, I begin to gently loosen my muscles.

I don't really know where to go from there because I usually spend the rest of my session in the state that follows. I'm pretty sure this type of relaxed, serene state is the aim of meditation, but I could be wrong. I don't get to this state every time. In fact, oftentimes I'll spend an entire session just trying to silence my thoughts without any kind of lasting success. But I don't judge sessions like these as a failure. It's just a meditation session like any other.

When I do this practice regularly, for its own sake and on its own time (you really do have to set time aside from your hectic schedule of constantly posting on the Shroomery), I find it becomes a simple matter to take hardships and discomfort in stride in the pursuit of higher goals than alleviating hardships and discomfort.





I personally think it is a preparation for preparing your body to be able to look.

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OfflineAzure Essence
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14202101 - 03/29/11 03:01 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

There's no 'aim' of meditation, medtation IS the aim. Anything beyond that point is just free candy, so to speak.

People dont realize the ultimate orgasm is literally just being, and realizing it. So much doing, having, wanting, so much crazy shit, people numb themselves to it.

I have moment where I just tune into that and it instantly changs how I feel and think about everythig. Just a single second I take a deep breath, and BE and really feel it, it's glorious. People are so cut off from the sensation of existing, and some onyl get back to that on psychedelics, but take a moment, really even a moment is more time than you could ever need, and feel that. Feel yourself being alive

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: teknix]
    #14202106 - 03/29/11 03:03 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

There is certainly a clarity of mind that comes with meditation practice. When I first began I was amazed at how upon finishing I'd feel lighter in the body, with an enhanced clarity of vision and richer experience of colors. It goes deep. But recently in particular, I've found it to be most useful in controlling impulsive behavior and anxiety.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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OfflineAzure Essence
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Azure Essence]
    #14202111 - 03/29/11 03:05 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Oh yeah, it's useful for everything, because at the same time if helps you define everything.

I dont know how people live(if you can call that living) witohut meditating. If people sat alone in a dark, quiet room for 1 hour a day, not only would they have nothing more to complain and worry about, they would find that 1 hour is the only hour they are truly alive.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Azure Essence]
    #14202114 - 03/29/11 03:06 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Azure Essence said:
There's no 'aim' of meditation, medtation IS the aim. Anything beyond that point is just free candy, so to speak.

People dont realize the ultimate orgasm is literally just being, and realizing it. So much doing, having, wanting, so much crazy shit, people numb themselves to it.

I have moment where I just tune into that and it instantly changs how I feel and think about everythig. Just a single second I take a deep breath, and BE and really feel it, it's glorious. People are so cut off from the sensation of existing, and some onyl get back to that on psychedelics, but take a moment, really even a moment is more time than you could ever need, and feel that. Feel yourself being alive




Meditation and psychedelics (especially LSD) are like bread and butter...

I smoked DMT after a prolonged meditation session a couple weekends ago, and I literally felt it... I breathed with the universe and I loved with the heart of God. I was everywhere, everything. The visuals were great, but that feeling of absolute interconnectedness is what I love to get out of psychedelics above all else.

The trouble is that meditation IS useful for various aims in daily life, but the practice of meditation can't be engaged in the pursuit of those aims. It needs to be just be a daily practice, regardless to whatever you hope to "achieve" by doing it.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Can you stop thinking? [Re: Azure Essence]
    #14202116 - 03/29/11 03:07 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Azure Essence said:
There's no 'aim' of meditation, medtation IS the aim. Anything beyond that point is just free candy, so to speak.

People dont realize the ultimate orgasm is literally just being, and realizing it. So much doing, having, wanting, so much crazy shit, people numb themselves to it.

I have moment where I just tune into that and it instantly changs how I feel and think about everythig. Just a single second I take a deep breath, and BE and really feel it, it's glorious. People are so cut off from the sensation of existing, and some onyl get back to that on psychedelics, but take a moment, really even a moment is more time than you could ever need, and feel that. Feel yourself being alive




You sound so certain.

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