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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1424518 - 04/02/03 09:35 PM (21 years, 1 day ago)

Nope, never saw any combat.
Neither have Bush or Cheney.
Here's an interesting opinion piece on their distinguished military service:

These Men Died in Vietnam While George W. Bush and Dick Cheney Avoided Combat Like Cowards

Needless to say, our "National Security Advisor" Rice hasn't seen combat, either. The one person who HAS seen combat (Powell) seems to have the least say of all of them concerning the conduct of the war right now.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
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Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1424718 - 04/02/03 10:35 PM (21 years, 1 day ago)

I find that most of the extreme warmongers like Rummy have never seen war up-close.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: silversoul7]
    #1424839 - 04/02/03 11:08 PM (21 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

I find that most of the extreme warmongers like Rummy have never seen war up-close.



Fucking neocons... they're all a bunch of armchair generals. NONE of them have the cojones to engage in battle themselves, they would rather send young impressionable men who have yet to find direction in life to die for their dreams of grandeur.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Edited by Evolving (04/02/03 11:08 PM)

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Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
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Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: Evolving]
    #1424966 - 04/02/03 11:56 PM (21 years, 1 day ago)

does anyone have access to the ethnic classes represented in the lower-level armed forces? I wish I had done a survey when I was in the Army--mostly black and hispanic.

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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: hongomon]
    #1425825 - 04/03/03 10:28 AM (21 years, 22 hours ago)

No, but if you look at all of the pictures of soldiers on the news and on the web, it seems that a majority are minorties. Stands to reason though, many people only join the military nowadays so they don't have to pay out of pocket for college. It is a tempting offer, join the service, hope war doesn't break out, do your stint, then we pay for your education. Unfortunately, many kids enlisting don't stop to think about what the armed services are really about, and that's learning to KILL, KILL, KILL!

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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
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Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1426222 - 04/03/03 12:50 PM (21 years, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Problem solved..carry on. 



Thanks Rono, it's good to see someone knows how to use a word processing program. 




Pm me, and ill teach you how to click the link. :smile:


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Offlinefriartuck
Man of God

Registered: 03/29/03 Happy 21st Shroomiversary!
Posts: 2,007
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Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1426235 - 04/03/03 12:55 PM (21 years, 20 hours ago)

lol


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Never give up, never surrender.

If you're seeing bitterness, perhaps the time has come to clean the shit from your eyes.

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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1426302 - 04/03/03 01:17 PM (21 years, 19 hours ago)

:grin:

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1426340 - 04/03/03 01:26 PM (21 years, 19 hours ago)

I for one am glad dumbsfeld is in charge. :grin:

Iraq has a hope! :grin:


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1427585 - 04/04/03 12:35 AM (21 years, 8 hours ago)

With all the hate twards Bush from the anti's I think it might be worth pointing to the second sentence in the article.

"Several senior war planners complained to me in interviews that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and his inner circle of civilian advisers, who had been chiefly responsible for persuading President Bush to lead the country into war, had insisted on micromanaging the war?s operational details."

If this article is worth posting as reliable intel, it might be worth noting the implication that Bush was dupted into this war. It wouldn't suprise me since Bush doesn't strike anyone as the intelligent type. Maybe all the Bush bashing is misdirected? Just a thought.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1427599 - 04/04/03 12:39 AM (21 years, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

If this article is worth posting as reliable intel, it might be worth noting the implication that Bush was dupted into this war. It wouldn't suprise me since Bush doesn't strike anyone as the intelligent type. Maybe all the Bush bashing is misdirected? Just a thought.



Usually when I bash Bush, I'm really talking about his administration, unless I'm talking about what a dumbass he is, in which case I'm just talking about him.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: silversoul7]
    #1427612 - 04/04/03 12:43 AM (21 years, 8 hours ago)

What he said ^^^^^^^^^

Bashing Bush is like bashing a retard, its funny, but it truly isn't nice, he can't help it.



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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: Skikid16]
    #1427636 - 04/04/03 12:56 AM (21 years, 7 hours ago)

He has been implicated over and over because of his backround in oil. If he was duped then it takes a lot of wind from that argument right? What are Rumms motives?


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1427643 - 04/04/03 12:59 AM (21 years, 7 hours ago)



--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: silversoul7]
    #1427672 - 04/04/03 01:13 AM (21 years, 7 hours ago)

What does he gain personaly?


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: adrug]
    #1427926 - 04/04/03 03:53 AM (21 years, 5 hours ago)

Quote:

No, but if you look at all of the pictures of soldiers on the news and on the web, it seems that a majority are minorties.



Actually....
"The active-duty team that may go to Baghdad boasts a higher percentage of minorities than does the nation's civilian labor force ---- 37 percent compared to 31 percent, the 2002 Department of Defense report states."
http://www.nctimes.net/news/2003/20030126/53358.html


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1428496 - 04/04/03 10:29 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not sure what Rummy has to gain personally. I'm willing to believe he's actually waging this war for an ideal. Of course, if you click that link, you'll see that it's quite likely that that ideal is world domination for America.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Rummy's Incompetence [Re: silversoul7]
    #1430144 - 04/04/03 09:14 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Lets look at the staement of principals from that link.

********************************************************************************************

June 3, 1997

American foreign and defense policy is adrift. Conservatives have criticized the incoherent policies of the Clinton Administration. They have also resisted isolationist impulses from within their own ranks. But conservatives have not confidently advanced a strategic vision of America's role in the world. They have not set forth guiding principles for American foreign policy. They have allowed differences over tactics to obscure potential agreement on strategic objectives. And they have not fought for a defense budget that would maintain American security and advance American interests in the new century.

We aim to change this. We aim to make the case and rally support for American global leadership.


As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world's preeminent power. Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge: Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievements of past decades? Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?


We are in danger of squandering the opportunity and failing the challenge. We are living off the capital -- both the military investments and the foreign policy achievements -- built up by past administrations. Cuts in foreign affairs and defense spending, inattention to the tools of statecraft, and inconstant leadership are making it increasingly difficult to sustain American influence around the world. And the promise of short-term commercial benefits threatens to override strategic considerations. As a consequence, we are jeopardizing the nation's ability to meet present threats and to deal with potentially greater challenges that lie ahead.

We seem to have forgotten the essential elements of the Reagan Administration's success: a military that is strong and ready to meet both present and future challenges; a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad; and national leadership that accepts the United States' global responsibilities.


Of course, the United States must be prudent in how it exercises its power. But we cannot safely avoid the responsibilities of global leadership or the costs that are associated with its exercise. America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests. The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire. The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership.

Our aim is to remind Americans of these lessons and to draw their consequences for today. Here are four consequences:

? we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global
responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;


? we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;


? we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;


? we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

Such a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity may not be fashionable today. But it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century and to ensure our security and our greatness in the next.

***********************************************************************************

I take it that you take an isolationist point of view that we don't have a responsibility as a global leader? You refer to this link quite often. Could you point out exactly what you see here or anywhere at that site that indicates a desire for some sort of global dominance objective or desire to rule the world. Global leadership is different from global domination.

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting be a global leader and promote American principals as stated in the constitution. SHouldn't everyone enjoy the freedoms of the constitution? Now we can discus what global leadership means and how we should promote American ideals but aren't you reading some sort of conspiriacy into this?>


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all

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