|
Salomon
ಠ︵ಠ balance ಠ_ಠ weaver ಠ‿ಠ

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 25,128
Loc: America, FUCK YEAH
|
justification of personal experience
#14200592 - 03/28/11 09:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
in a hypothetical scenario
you have just learned that your conscientiousness is the only "real" that exists. everybody and everything else is just a simulation.
you are a brain in a jar that exists in the "real" world, and everything that you experience is just the work of another being with in the "real" world entering data into that brain.
but when you learned this, it happened in the form of a "vision" in the middle of the day. suddenly time stopped and a figure appeared before you to tell you this. then things returned to normal, but you are completely aware of what just happened.
would you trust what you just experienced? or would you play it off as just going crazy or an hallucination or etc?
it was completely different from your normal experience of reality.
actually let's put it to two versions:
#1 this happened in the presence of others. during the experience, it seemed as if time was passing normally for you, but for everybody else there was nothing unusual going on. almost as if you had just stopped time.
#2 it happened when you were alone
you can't prove it, so nobody that you tell believes you, but you have the profound personal experience to go on.
do you trust your own perception?
and as a final twist, what if the figure told you that everything that in negative in your life is just from him trolling you, which is why nobody else would believe you because they're programed to propagate said trolling. basically telling you it's all just for the lulz and you're the butt of the joke
-------------------- EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: justification of personal experience [Re: Salomon]
#14200704 - 03/28/11 09:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I would stop watching 'The Matrix' and doing DMT. Maybe go for a run.
--------------------
|
Salomon
ಠ︵ಠ balance ಠ_ಠ weaver ಠ‿ಠ

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 25,128
Loc: America, FUCK YEAH
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: I would stop watching 'The Matrix' and doing DMT. Maybe go for a run.
evading the problem at hand 
there is a relevance to drugs here tho.
what if such had happened during a drug trip? one would likely just attribute it to the drugs and brush it off as stoned nonsense.
but what if it had happened to you with the preconceived notion that you were completely sober, and in good mental health?
-------------------- EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT
|
ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
|
Re: justification of personal experience [Re: Salomon]
#14200766 - 03/28/11 10:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Read into Buddhism and Hinduism, stop watching the Matrix. Go for a run.
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
|
Salomon
ಠ︵ಠ balance ಠ_ಠ weaver ಠ‿ಠ

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 25,128
Loc: America, FUCK YEAH
|
Re: justification of personal experience [Re: ahchela]
#14200786 - 03/28/11 10:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ahchela said: Read into Buddhism and Hinduism, stop watching the Matrix. Go for a run.
eerily similar to my first response
and like such, not answering anything
-------------------- EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT
|
ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
|
Re: justification of personal experience [Re: Salomon]
#14200833 - 03/28/11 10:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Just saying man, don't take inward experiences at their face value. You need to study a lot and have a lot of inward experiences to begin to understand them, life is vast and we're floating in the middle of it.
If you're a brain in a jar, then what is the world outside of the jar? It has to exist, just take your existence as proof of existence.
Keep seeking answers and question your experiences, if you settle on your first vision you're selling yourself short.
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: justification of personal experience [Re: Salomon]
#14200836 - 03/28/11 10:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
In both cases I would not trust it, and would eventually disregard it. If the 'figure' really wanted to convince me, it would have to try a little better than that.
|
johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
Re: justification of personal experience [Re: Salomon]
#14200927 - 03/28/11 10:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
From a scientific perspective, it doesn't seem this "knowledge" has any observable effect on the world. Since it doesn't effect anything, it is no different if the thing is true than if it is not, hence: its not a scientific hypothesis.
Such ideas seem pretty pointless to me. They don't matter and there's no evidence for them save for emotional investment in them. Believe it if you want, but its bullshit.
|
deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
|
Re: justification of personal experience [Re: Salomon]
#14201012 - 03/28/11 10:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
This revelation wouldn't change how I lived my life because for all practical purposes I can still experience pain and other negative consequences in this fake reality, so I couldn't run amok and treat life as if it were a video game. What happens if I kill myself in this simulation, though?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
|
Salomon
ಠ︵ಠ balance ಠ_ಠ weaver ಠ‿ಠ

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 25,128
Loc: America, FUCK YEAH
|
Re: justification of personal experience [Re: DieCommie]
#14201079 - 03/28/11 11:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ahchela said: Just saying man, don't take inward experiences at their face value. You need to study a lot and have a lot of inward experiences to begin to understand them, life is vast and we're floating in the middle of it.
If you're a brain in a jar, then what is the world outside of the jar? It has to exist, just take your existence as proof of existence.
Keep seeking answers and question your experiences, if you settle on your first vision you're selling yourself short.
oh it's just a hypothetical scenario, bro i haven't had such an experience, i'm just curious on how people would have answered.
although i disagree that it "has to exist"
Quote:
DieCommie said: In both cases I would not trust it, and would eventually disregard it. If the 'figure' really wanted to convince me, it would have to try a little better than that.
good!
but what if these visions were reoccurring, and in which you were able to converse with the figure, in which he explained in full detail, exactly how everything works with in his simulation?
in other words he tells you all of the secrets of the universe, but they are non demonstrable with in the "regular" universe. like if you traveled to the fourth dimension and then tried to explain it to those who exist in the third dimension, it wouldn't make sense.
so you have visions where you learn the truth about the universe, which make perfect sense to you, but not to anybody else, because they haven't experienced what you have.
i guess i'm asking if you (all you guys) would trust a personal experience that "enlightened" you, despite having nobody else's intellectual approval
also, cause i got a reply while i was typing this,
Quote:
Such ideas seem pretty pointless to me. They don't matter and there's no evidence for them save for emotional investment in them. Believe it if you want, but its bullshit.
i don't believe anything, my friend.
i just don't completely rule out anything, because science works with in the physical universe but not in the non-physical universe. but the non-physical universe can't be demonstrated physically (obviously lol). so while such things are essentially irrelevant because they can't be demonstrated, we still must take them into consideration, as anything is possible and what we experience has the possibility to be wrong.
science answers the how not the why. if it did, life would be a lot less complicated.
-------------------- EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT
|
quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
|
Re: justification of personal experience [Re: Salomon]
#14201101 - 03/28/11 11:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
life is a lot less complicated
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: justification of personal experience [Re: Salomon]
#14201110 - 03/28/11 11:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
i guess i'm asking if you (all you guys) would trust a personal experience that "enlightened" you, despite having nobody else's intellectual approval
No. Im not arrogant enough to think that my personal experience trumps the personal experience of thousands, millions or billions of others. That kind of self absorbed hubris is best left to the mystics and religious.
If my simulated reality was destroyed, and I was able to interact in a new reality as a brain in a jar I would slowly adapt to my new stimuli and experience over the decades. Just like I did to my earlier simulated reality.
|
quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
|
Re: justification of personal experience [Re: DieCommie]
#14201221 - 03/28/11 11:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DieCommie said: No. Im not arrogant enough to think that my personal experience trumps the personal experience of thousands, millions or billions of others. That kind of self absorbed hubris is best left to the mystics and religious.
some ppl in this forum (not naming names) are arrogant enough to think their personal experience trumps the personal experience of thousand, millions, billions of others, who over centuries have felt and experienced the presence of God and such.
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: justification of personal experience [Re: quinn]
#14201258 - 03/28/11 11:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I have felt and experience the presence of god too, its a common human experience. The problem with that is every body feels and experience it differently, there is no consensus. When the billions of people all have uniquely different experiences of god, then you cant really take any of those experiences at face value. When billions of people have a similar experience of living on earth rather than being a brain in a jar, then you would be more likely to put credence in those experiences.
|
Salomon
ಠ︵ಠ balance ಠ_ಠ weaver ಠ‿ಠ

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 25,128
Loc: America, FUCK YEAH
|
Re: justification of personal experience [Re: DieCommie]
#14201276 - 03/28/11 11:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
i don't think it's a question of arrogance.
since you can only precieve your own personal experience, it is impossible to know if any other is more or less accurate, let alone that any other than your own exists at all.
i guess it boils down to what you think is providing you with the truth. it seems to me that people are always more likely to believe what others present to them as the norm than what they experience on their own.
-------------------- EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT
|
quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
|
Re: justification of personal experience [Re: DieCommie]
#14201387 - 03/28/11 11:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
yeh i dont really agree with your argument... i think other peoples beliefs or experience is not really relevant to your own.
what is relevant is being honest to yourself, questioning your own beliefs in a non bias detached way and looking then for the simplest and most efficient explanation of what is presented to you (without emotional attachment like say to an afterlife or whatever).
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
|
Blondell_Letrange
No other.



Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 418
Loc: OZ
|
Re: justification of personal experience [Re: Salomon]
#14201612 - 03/29/11 12:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
and as a final twist, what if the figure told you that everything that in negative in your life is just from him trolling you, which is why nobody else would believe you because they're programed to propagate said trolling. basically telling you it's all just for the lulz and you're the butt of the joke
Yeah, that would make sense. What a cunt.
|
|