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Offlinem.player
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Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate?
    #14199178 - 03/28/11 06:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Hi everybody,
I started a new 60x30 foot garden, with many new additions from blueberries to fig trees...and I have a little 3x4' box for outdoor tek. Yet, I need a good tek! :crazy2:

I inoculated a PF TEK-style quart jar back in late November and it is just finally finishing (I give it two more weeks). I assume it took so long because of the size of the jar and large amount of BRF (2:1; verm to BRF). But it seems to be a clean noc up, free of contams, so what is a good method for outdoor tek?
I've looked into this and searched around but I really need some additional links or personalized advice, I just know for sure that logs are out of my time range.
Thanks!
-m

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: m.player]
    #14199205 - 03/28/11 06:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

A single quart of BRF is not going to do it.
You need grain spawn and lots of it.


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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InvisibleM11
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: Doc_T]
    #14199229 - 03/28/11 06:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with Doc_T with this one.  A 3x4' box is pretty damn large.  I would guess you would need about 20 or so quarts of grain spawn to make it worthwhile. 

But if that is all you have, you could try something like I did for a small outdoor grow.  The link is in my signature.  But don't expect too much.  I spawned 1 quart of colonized rye grain into that tray and I only got about an ounce dry over 3 flushes.


--------------------
Of course, then there's the problem of eating vermiculite. On the bright side, it makes your poop and teeth glitter.  Just pretend it's christmas.
-RR

Those mushrooms are fine.  Your friend is a pussy.
-RR

Outdoor Patch

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Offlinem.player
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: M11]
    #14199346 - 03/28/11 06:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I should have specified that I wasn't intending to fill the 3x4 box, haha. I only intend to use part of it to house my outdoor mushy endeavor.
But M11, that link is exactly what I was looking for! Simple yet effective.
But I have to ask, where do you live? Here in CT, I am not sure if the environment will be suitable to use your tek. Right now its barely getting out of the high 40's by day...I have at least a month or two before I can think about putting the spawn outside. But you said yours had cobweb mold and you just stuck it outside to grow anyway? Isn't that a bad for consumption?
What can I add to the substrate to benefit the yield? With the new garden I have tons of fresh cedar chips & sawdust lying around. Also, any tips for a first time breaking up a verm cake (when I do lay out the substrate in the ground)...is it possible to over-stress or damage in the process of crumbling the cake?

Thanks again!!
-m

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: m.player]
    #14199504 - 03/28/11 07:16 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'd just make cakes and plant them in the ground. Plug them in by the dozen.
You can't spawn cubensis to the stuff you mentioned. Manure, straw, coir are some options for bulk spawn material.


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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InvisibleM11
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: Doc_T]
    #14200456 - 03/28/11 09:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

You will need to use manure, compost, coir, vermiculite, straw, gypsum etc. as a substrate like Doc_T said.  I used a combination of coir, verm, compost, horse poo, worm castings and gypsum as my sub for that tray.

I would just spawn your quart of BRF and verm into a tray like I used.  I tried moving some cakes outdoors for a 3rd flush, and they didn't do anything.  I am not quite sure what Doc_T is suggesting by using your spawn to make more cakes.  Maybe he could elaborate? 

Are you sure your spawn is fully colonized?


--------------------
Of course, then there's the problem of eating vermiculite. On the bright side, it makes your poop and teeth glitter.  Just pretend it's christmas.
-RR

Those mushrooms are fine.  Your friend is a pussy.
-RR

Outdoor Patch

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Offlinem.player
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: M11]
    #14210923 - 03/30/11 05:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So I could potentially just make half pint jars by the dozens and just put them in the ground, what other steps are necessary?

And with my qt, it has been >70% for the last three months, and two of those three months have been >85%. Its really slow and the top of the jar is beginning to thin & look rhizomorphic. I am guessing the thinning is to naturally keep FAE to the still-growing part of the mycellium, eh?
So with the "tray", what steps shall I take once it is 100% and I give it that extra week to consolidate (or shouldn't I)? Get a tray mixed with x? I realize you mentioned some things, but what are the essentials & what parts are the sugar on top (since its more/less difficult to get some materials)?

And what is this talk of spawning new cakes from my cake? Doesn't that have high potential for contamination? I am assuming you're saying to just PC some jars and break off a piece of my qt cake, then place it in the new jar to colonize?

Thanks spreading the wonderful knowledge of growing!!
-m

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InvisibleM11
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: m.player]
    #14211444 - 03/30/11 07:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It sounds like your jar has stalled, but if it hasn't it will continue to colonize until it reaches 100%.  I wouldn't be surprised if it has stalled given moisture loss over the time period you have stated.  Post some pictures to help us out. 

I would just go with some hpoo if you can find it.  Verm by about 15-20% by volume and some gypsum by about 5-10% by volume.  That should make a nice nutritious sub.  Just remember you won't need much sub for a single tray.  No reason to make more than you need.

If your quart of verm/BRF doesn't look like it is reaching 100% colonization, you could try cutting off the uncolonized part and only spawning the colonize part.  I would break the colonized spawn into smallish pieces.  Maybe chunks the size of quarts or so?  Then spawn it into your tray.  Put a 1/2" layer or so of sub on the bottom of the tray, then a layer of spawn chunks, then another 1/2" layer of sub, then spawn, and so on.  You want to finish with a 1/2" or so layer of sub on top.  Use as many layers as you need. 


--------------------
Of course, then there's the problem of eating vermiculite. On the bright side, it makes your poop and teeth glitter.  Just pretend it's christmas.
-RR

Those mushrooms are fine.  Your friend is a pussy.
-RR

Outdoor Patch

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Offlinem.player
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: M11]
    #14211748 - 03/30/11 08:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't believe it has stalled...but it is struggling, for sure. Should I give it that extra "grace week" to allow it to consolidate or immediately put it to substrate. I can post some pictures tomorrow afternoon for appropriate analysis.
Since I'm new to this casing/outdoor tek; is sterile tek necessary with the substrate casing? I would think from my past knowledge that the mycellium is strong enough to withstand outside forces of contams. Where does the poo fall into layering the case?

And you said "chunks the size of quarts or so" is that quarters? That doesn't ruin the integrity of the myc at all? You just layer it into the case and then it colonizes again?
Then you place the case outdoors in X environment?
And is gypsum common in gardening stores? What exactly is it?
Sorry for seemingly idiotic questioning, but every step is critical, as you know!
-m
EDIT: Also, approximately how long will the mycellium take to colonize the substrate? This should be indoors, with/without light, and humidity?

Edited by m.player (03/30/11 08:21 PM)

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InvisibleM11
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: m.player]
    #14211839 - 03/30/11 08:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ha ha, yes, that should have been quarters.  All I really mean is break the spawn up into small pieces in order to increase surface area of the spawn.  I would probably break it up even smaller than quarter size; maybe more like the size of rice grains.  I am not quite sure how brf/verm breaks up -never tried it. 

Anyway, make sure you know the difference between casing and substrate.  Use the search function.  Look up gypsum also. 

I would let the tray colonize indoors and once it is finished drop it outside to initiate fruiting.


--------------------
Of course, then there's the problem of eating vermiculite. On the bright side, it makes your poop and teeth glitter.  Just pretend it's christmas.
-RR

Those mushrooms are fine.  Your friend is a pussy.
-RR

Outdoor Patch

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Offlinem.player
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: M11]
    #14335898 - 04/22/11 10:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well its three weeks past when I promised the pictures, but with good timing; being 98% done.

Should I or should I not wait a week once that last little bit of empty space is colonized? As I said, I'm new to using substrate trays, so wouldn't I avoid allowing the cake to consolidate in the jar, since it is not about to be fruiting?

But what is the main volume of the substrate? The mycellium? So that plus some gardening epsom salts (gypsum) and some verm, well-layered? Is HP essential? Can I use two-year tea-treated compost instead?
So once it is all layed down properly in a tray, put it under 12/12 light and decent humidity?

Let me know what you think of the cake (looks good to me):

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Offlinem.player
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: m.player]
    #14337451 - 04/23/11 08:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I was actually really alarmed when I looked over my post and enlarged the third picture. It looks green near the verm layer (that's falling through), but after much inspection and examination, it was at the fault of my camera flash going off; reflecting off of the shiny verm.

Also, I forgot to mention before: this has taken especially long (since late October) because one of the four spore injections did not germinate; right on the side where the uncolonized verm is. I've been playing the waiting game for just the bottom of the jar for two months... But then again, temps have be in the low 60s in the room since I inoculated the cake.

Looking forward to more of your expertise!
m

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Offlinem.player
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: m.player]
    #14365326 - 04/28/11 06:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So I've got my peat moss potting soil mix, 100% colonized quart, and Mir-a-cal. I went to my local garden shop and asked for gypsum; the woman there was pacing looking for it and mentioned that the "manager usually recommends something else when we're out of stock". So another employee came out and gave me a zip-lock bag full of 1/8" beads called MIR-A-CAL.
So, I looked it up on the internet and all I could find was this statement about it from a garden store's website in Massachusetts:
Quote:

My MIR-A-CAL is rich in calcium which is essential in the development of new plants, just as it is in the creation of strong bones. Once MIR-A-CAL comes into contact with the soil and water it releases quickly to rapidly raise soil pH. This is important because desireable lawn grasses thrive in 6.0 to 6.8 pH soils while weeds persist in lower pH soils. MIR-A-CAL can be applied at any time of year and is 100% natural and safe to use around children and pets.




Is this a good product to use in absence of gypsum?
Also, anyone have a good thread on doing this type of case?
Thanks,
m

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: m.player]
    #14365433 - 04/28/11 06:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That sounds like it would work for plants but may or may not work with mushrooms. Harmless at worse, is my suspicion.


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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Offlinem.player
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: Doc_T]
    #14367016 - 04/28/11 01:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
That sounds like it would work for plants but may or may not work with mushrooms. Harmless at worse, is my suspicion.



Yeah, so as long as I PC the casing mixture for a good 90 minutes, it'll either help or just take up space; a bet worth making.
But contrary to what I stated before, what is the difference between the terms casing and substrate?
Also, I went through the all of the pages on the 'Mushroom Info' archive on here and didn't find any well-described steps on how to case. Anybody have a good link?
One last thing...its my understanding that I will PC verm and put it at the bottom of the case, then put the colonized broken up plant material, and then the PC'd case mixture?
Any and all help appreciated. Especially DocT, are you UOTM here? If not I elect you! You've helped me a lot over the many threads/questions that I've posted.
Thanks again,
m

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Offlineronjohn7779
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: m.player]
    #14367047 - 04/28/11 01:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If you want sure fire good results just do an indoor grow. Too many variables can mess shit up outside.


--------------------
"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!" An American Hero Iron Mike!

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Offlinem.player
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: ronjohn7779]
    #14367468 - 04/28/11 03:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ronjohn7779 said:
If you want sure fire good results just do an indoor grow. Too many variables can mess shit up outside.



I'm actually shifting my interest to just casing indoors, since the mycellium is ready to be cased and the weather is 50 degrees and raining.

Need some questions above answered though!
Best,
m

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InvisibleM11
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: m.player]
    #14368423 - 04/28/11 05:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I would case with peat moss outside.  I would stick to some grass clipping or straw and leaves.  Casings can get saturated with water outdoors.  Casings are more of an indoor thing.


--------------------
Of course, then there's the problem of eating vermiculite. On the bright side, it makes your poop and teeth glitter.  Just pretend it's christmas.
-RR

Those mushrooms are fine.  Your friend is a pussy.
-RR

Outdoor Patch

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Offlinem.player
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: M11]
    #14371364 - 04/29/11 06:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

M11 said:
I would case with peat moss outside.  I would stick to some grass clipping or straw and leaves.  Casings can get saturated with water outdoors.  Casings are more of an indoor thing.




This confuses me...:mushroom2:

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InvisibleM11
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Re: Outdoor grow recommendations for qt of substrate? [Re: m.player]
    #14372041 - 04/29/11 10:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

m.player said:
Quote:

M11 said:
I would case with peat moss outside.  I would stick to some grass clipping or straw and leaves.  Casings can get saturated with water outdoors.  Casings are more of an indoor thing.




This confuses me...:mushroom2:




*Wouldn't*

Sorry for the typo.


--------------------
Of course, then there's the problem of eating vermiculite. On the bright side, it makes your poop and teeth glitter.  Just pretend it's christmas.
-RR

Those mushrooms are fine.  Your friend is a pussy.
-RR

Outdoor Patch

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