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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Right Livelihood
    #1419879 - 03/31/03 03:01 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I bring up the following, not to boast, but because I frequently get berated from girlfriends and family, "Why don"t you get a real job and do something productive?" as if my lifestyle is somehow immoral. It may be unstable, but wrong!? I provide a service; it is called entertainment.

This may come as little surprise to you folks, but I make my living playing the odds; gambling, if you will. ( I won't count selling my body to lonely women...) I do this in three arenas: backgammon, poker, and the stock market which is why I am online so much.

I have been accused of being a hustler which is false. A hustler misrepresents his ability: "Aww shucks, I never played this game before..." and is dishonest.

Now there are times when I may take actions that may be considered misleading (such as starting with a questionable opening move in backgammon), but it is my opponent that assigns meaning to my action. He is free to interpret as he wishes. I neither encourage nor discourage such speculation. In poker such misdirection is considered a vital part of the game and is not looked down upon.

In one backgammon session, I played an older woman who was clearly outclassed. I was up several thousand dollars on the score sheet. I told her to quit and pay me half of what she owed me. She refused and continued to play so I took her for all that I could; which was five times greater than what I agreed to settle for initially. (Ain't ego a wonderful thing?) I have also encouraged drunk and stoned opponents that are losing heavily to quit, which they rarely do.

I give these examples to show that I actually have scruples. However, all three of these combatant fields are entered into voluntarily so I feel no guilt, remorse or shame at taking their money. Do I lose? Of course, but it is the long-term odds that keeps me afloat.

Now what about the stock market? Well occasionally I actually "invest" in a company, but mostly I make my coin by buying after a panic sell-off after some bad news. Again, I have been accused of making money off of other people's misfortunes. I don't see it that way. They are itching to unload their tainted shares and so I provide a service by buying them so they can have peace of mind. Then when the fear subsides in a few hours to a few weeks, I sell the shares for a tidy profit.

So what do y'all think of the morality of my livelihood? Would the Buddah chastise me?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleTeragon
Noddy

Registered: 02/21/01
Posts: 36,253
Loc: Lost in the Patterns
Re: Right Livelihood [Re: Swami]
    #1419888 - 03/31/03 03:09 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Swami-
      Nah, I say you're good. You are only profiting on the situation not the people directly. You also seem to be quite nice about it, and even offer people a chance to save themselves. And as far as the stock market goes...
Quote:

They are itching to unload their tainted shares and so I provide a service by buying them so they can have peace of mind.


This is exactly the situation and they make the first move too. They want to get rid of those shares. You're not doing anything wrong, just making the most out of what's in front of you.  :grin:

Teragon 


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need that cash to feed them jones.


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: Right Livelihood [Re: Swami]
    #1419905 - 03/31/03 03:20 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

So what do y'all think of the morality of my livelihood? Would the Buddah chastise me?"

i consider right livlihood to be earning a living with the gifts you were born with, and you seem to have a flair for what you're doing so why not continue? If you start to lose more often/heavily than you win it might be time to consider selling your body on a more steady basis :grin:
 


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Right Livelihood [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1419938 - 03/31/03 03:40 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

"If you start to lose more often/heavily than you win it might be time to consider selling your body on a more steady basis "

Body parts might be more profitable, but I could be wrong.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: Right Livelihood [Re: Murex]
    #1419955 - 03/31/03 03:49 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

THere's pretty good money to be had "loaning" the right part out too :wink: 


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Right Livelihood [Re: Murex]
    #1419959 - 03/31/03 03:52 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

When you just have to have that cheap bottle of Thunderbird wine, the sperm and blood banks are good for a couple of dollars.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineAlobar
A Bucket of Lard

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 322
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Right Livelihood [Re: Swami]
    #1420040 - 03/31/03 05:04 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

How 'bout Wild Rose? :grin: 


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: Right Livelihood [Re: Alobar]
    #1420117 - 03/31/03 06:06 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

i never thought i'd see the day when cheap gut rot bingo wines were a topic for discussion in S & P :grin: 


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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Invisiblechunder
marker

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 965
Loc: The City
Re: Right Livelihood [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1420131 - 03/31/03 06:16 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Stock market, backgammon, poker, these are all games of skill. Luck might be involved, but if you don't know how to play the game, then all the luck in the world won't help you. I say what you're doing is just as valid as any other skill that rewards you with money.

And shit, sure beats a regular 9 to 5 eh?


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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Right Livelihood [Re: chunder]
    #1420210 - 03/31/03 07:18 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I find your lifestyle pretty funny actually! I mean, are you real? You're a pro gambler, that's sweet! You make me want to learn a lifeskill, like poker or craps. I like how instable it must be living like that. It's one of those hunter-gatherer type jobs.


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: Right Livelihood [Re: Dogomush]
    #1420266 - 03/31/03 07:59 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

You're a pro gambler, that's sweet! You make me want to learn a lifeskill, like poker or craps. I like how instable it must be living like that.'

Yeah, but i'd be willing to BET :grin: that if one is as proficient at it as Swami is that it is a more care free and lucrative existence than most of us will ever know :smile: 


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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Anonymous

Re: Right Livelihood [Re: Swami]
    #1420466 - 03/31/03 10:12 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Obviously you are sinner that will burn forever in the fiery pit of hell.

And probably infested with a multitude of demons.

Anything else?


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
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Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,183
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Right Livelihood [Re: Swami]
    #1420473 - 03/31/03 10:21 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

being cunning is what the spirit of the dollar takes
passion is what the spirit of self-expression takes

i would like to subsist through passion alone, but i'm willing to be cunning as i work my way there. so i guess for me, it's all a matter of having a vision of what i will find most liberating. certain experiences have occasioned such visions, they have given me a glimpse of my future self, a man with extraordinary potential of being.

if i could recommend a book to you that would help you evaluate yourself, read or reread Siddhartha by Hesse.

you may find that the same abilities that allow you to succeed, monetarily speaking,, or the energy you must receive through having a philosophical debate, is far less an exercise of free will than you believe, is far less a statement of individuality think, and sets your own self limitations. i'm glad you have a code of ethics, that's an evolutionary step beyond many, i do commend having some sense of adult personality... but remember to question your motives in interpersonal relations, what kind of exchanges in energy there are (who feels energized and who feels drained) , what you need to get off on them..

amd then buddha says the Self is free of attachments.............


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Anonymous

Re: Right Livelihood [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #1420614 - 04/01/03 12:03 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Of course I was kidding in my previous post.

Siddhartha is one of my all time favorite books. Thanks for bringing it up.

Cheers,


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Right Livelihood [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #1420626 - 04/01/03 12:09 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I hear ya. I would rather make money composing and playing music, but am not that adept at this time. Executing a great market trade is just as satisfactory as designing a website or making a sale or growing shrooms...

I just find it interesting that people view me differently than, oh say, a professional basketball player who is also trying to take the prize from his competitor. It is the same principle of testing skills to see how advanced your knowledge and discipline have become. It is a way to measure yourself.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinejono
misc.
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 137
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Right Livelihood [Re: Swami]
    #1421075 - 04/01/03 06:12 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Swami, I think the difference between the professional basketball player, and you, is that the professional basketball players on both teams get paid, regardless of the result, and in a monentary term, neither of them loses.

I dont consider what you do to be bad, but I dont think its the most honourable of professions either. You must yourself have similar thoughts, considering that you raised this question to begin with. I think the fact that you often point out to the other people their mistakes when gambling against them, or ask them if they want to quit the game shows you have a sense or morality, and arent bent on ruthlessly taking them for everything they have.. The intentions behind the action, are the most important factor.

Anyway enough rambling from me, I just thought id share my opinion.

Sincerely,
Jono.


--------------------
Our problem results from acting like cowboys on a limitless frontier when in truth we inhabit a living spaceship with a finely balanced life-support system." David C. Korton


Edited by jono (04/01/03 06:14 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Right Livelihood [Re: jono]
    #1421264 - 04/01/03 10:06 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Swami, I think the difference between the professional basketball player, and you, is that the professional basketball players on both teams get paid, regardless of the result, and in a monentary term, neither of them loses.

True, but the winning players get paid MORE though usually not immediatley after the game.

So are you objecting to the competion or the reward (or lack of reward)? In the advertising world, the second place contract gets nothing. When courting a woman, if you come in second place, you get nothing. In the wild kingdom, the captured antelope does not get an "Honorable Mention" when losing a close race to the lion.

Why should a loser be rewarded for inferior performance?

OK, now switch the sport to boxing. They both get paid, but one definitely loses something after a viscious fight. However, as it is voluntary conflict, our boxing champions are seen as heroes just like other sports.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,183
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Right Livelihood [Re: Swami]
    #1421401 - 04/01/03 12:10 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

my family are loud, opinionated wealthy catholic alcoholics - gambling and competition are something of custom to us.
the first gambling game, something of a rights of passage, i played at the age of 5 - it was a card game called 31, we played with 3 quarters a piece. by the time i was 6, i would clear out my great-grandmother and her soap opera/card playing friends. the second gambling game, far more fiercely played and with much greater stakes was Scrabble. as a youngster, i quickly realized simple things, such as committing every 2 letter word to memory so i could play many multiple words was a matter of common sense. as it turned out, the majority of my family didn't even know the 2 letter words, and after losing their challenge wouid be roaring sore losers. mind you, most of them had 40 years on me. i would play a computer version at home by myself, setting it at higher diffuclty levels as my abilities improved, learning all the strategies and many words to boot. i was a pipsqueek throughout my young years, i didn't compete physically at all, and had no desire to discover myself there. i did, however, learn to compete and gamble heavily at the arcade - particularly, good ol' mortal kombat. this was probably the status prop that gave me the biggest rise, the most energy, as it was the young adults the 17-20 somethings that i, a 14yo kid, kind of made my place in this subculture of videogames, d&d, punk rock, dope, sex, exc. i would mockingly lose a round without making one hit just to play the next two flawlessly. i loved to talk shit, push peoples buttons. it wasn't the kind of thing where you'd stop and say to one another "jolly good game" "yes, jolly good". gaming was a matter of doing some serious ass kicking, 'cuz stroking your ego is seriously amusing. in hibh school, i loved to argue, especially with religious folk. i found much humor in exposing a shakey belief system, its inconsistencies, hypocricies, and insanities. i often boasted the idea that i could convince anybody to believe in anything no matter ho matter how absurd the belief. i'd turn around and argue for the christians and see if i could help them convince somebody that they were going to hell!
i think a change in my personality came with performing arts, particularly theater. there, your ability wasn't tested through competition, but through an entirely different mode. it became a matter of feeding off of one another, in which your ability to act is really confined to how conscious the other actors are. in a play, there is something of a chemistry between the actors that determines whether or not you really were in the moment, it's like impossible for you to really discover what you can do if you're playing of a cold, sterile machine. you can only be as high a performer as the rest of the cast, because the freedom comes through an exchange of energy that is mutually liberating. to me.. like, when you 're drawn into the competition trip, you're either taking energy or you're losing it, you're either dominating or submitting. this often happens even within sexual relations. people often find themselves latching onto another person to feel a sense of wholeness. or they join some group or club or church. you either feed off the same kind or sterile energy that keeps you on a limited trip, or you're left feeling drained by a psychic vampire. it's really described well by timothy leary with his circuit theory, it's the 2nd anal emotional-territorial circuit. it's all established by imprinting, and is just the predicament all primates are stuck in, until they establish a center of Self free of that game.
of course, i'm not sayng a true individual doesn't compete, as long as he doesn't judge his or anyone elses worthy by their success or failure. thus you don't play somebody unless you can stop, look up at the other, and say "jolly good game, yes?" :"yes, jolly good game".
and yes, music, beyond high school band marching competitions and star search, could definately be a mutually liberating exploration of all sorts of wild, new uncharted energies.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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