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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: Kid_Orgo]
    #14196920 - 03/28/11 09:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe not you specifically but there sure are a lot of people who treat science like a religion.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197065 - 03/28/11 10:17 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

A lot of people fail to recognize that science and even materialism are just as much religions as christianity or islam

Yeah, I can see how an evidence-based system of knowledge is the same as a random mish mash of self-contradicting made up shit that leads to such gems as "marijuana is evel" (even though it was ostensibly created by god) and suicide jihad is god's will.

Sure, exactly the same, science and religion.

Someone else put it succinctly: "Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into building".

Yep, exactly the same. :thumbdown:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197120 - 03/28/11 10:33 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

An issue that seems to be skirted here is the important distinction between 'respect' and 'tolerance'.  Respect is something that must be earned, the religion must impress or woo me in some way to earn my respect.  Tolerance on the other hand is given away as a default in the interest of having peace and perhaps understanding.

Praying to a rock does not in anyway earn my respect, I do not respect Islam.  But I do tolerate it (to some extent).


Quote:

Maybe not you specifically but there sure are a lot of people who treat science like a religion.




Yea, people who trash science and wish that their mysticism was elevated to a higher status.  Science is not a religion, not even close.

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: Diploid]
    #14197143 - 03/28/11 10:42 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

"Civilized" society is a hopeful belief and protest that science, money, and goods make man count for more than any other animal.

Quote:

Diploid said:
A lot of people fail to recognize that science and even materialism are just as much religions as christianity or islam

Yeah, I can see how an evidence-based system of knowledge is the same as a random mish mash of self-contradicting made up shit that leads to such gems as "marijuana is evel" (even though it was ostensibly created by god) and suicide jihad is god's will.

Sure, exactly the same, science and religion.


it's faith in a system. Just because it's evidence based doesn't make any less "religious," hell the soviet union was just as religious.

Quote:

Someone else put it succinctly: "Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into building".

Yep, exactly the same. :thumbdown:





Are you really going to try and argue that no one has used knowledge gained from the scientific fields for evil?


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197150 - 03/28/11 10:44 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

it's faith in a system.




That is not sufficient for it to be a religion.

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: DieCommie]
    #14197161 - 03/28/11 10:46 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

so what is then?


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197168 - 03/28/11 10:48 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

You want me to tell you what the definition of religion is?  You can look that up yourself.

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: DieCommie]
    #14197181 - 03/28/11 10:51 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Religion is a cultural system that creates powerful and long-lasting meaning, by establishing symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values.[1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life or to explain the origin of life or the universe... The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system, but religion differs from private belief in that it has a public aspect

Do you object to that?


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197223 - 03/28/11 11:00 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It depends on how you are going to interpret and apply it.  I think that is a fairly weak (ie., broad) definition.  But still, it does not negate my two statements that science is not a religion and faith is not sufficient to being a religion.

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: DieCommie]
    #14197248 - 03/28/11 11:06 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Okay, so how does it not meet those standards?

Science establishes symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values. It has narratives and traditions, and a cosmology. It is based on faith, and it is public.

I feel like you don't want to call science a religion because it happens to be successful, is this true?


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Edited by learningtofly (03/28/11 11:07 AM)

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197253 - 03/28/11 11:08 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It does not establish symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values, it does not have narratives and traditions, it is not based on faith.



Quote:

I feel like you don't want to call science a religion because it happens to be successful, is this true?




No

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: DieCommie]
    #14197259 - 03/28/11 11:10 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It tells a specific history of the universe, it uses a somewhat sacrosanct method, it is indeed based on faith (in the method).


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197279 - 03/28/11 11:13 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Science is the method and the models




There's a method called "science?"


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InvisibleKid_Orgo
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197286 - 03/28/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:

There's a method called "science?"




That's facetious.


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He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197290 - 03/28/11 11:16 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
Quote:

Science is the method and the models




There's a method called "science?"




Yes.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14200304 - 03/28/11 08:59 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
Quote:

Age_of_Reflection said:
What religion would that be? Please don't say scientology....



The black stone of Allah is a key component of Buddhism.




WTF?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14200352 - 03/28/11 09:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)



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