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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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The Black Stone of Allah
    #14195521 - 03/27/11 11:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Should I not be alarmed that one billion people pray to a meteor fragment every day? What exactly is it again that I am supposed to respect about religion?


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #14195529 - 03/27/11 11:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

is it shiny?


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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14195573 - 03/28/11 12:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What religion would that be? Please don't say scientology....


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One day we all will die.

If were lucky, warm in our beds,

But in truth, we lived two lives.

One external, and one in our heads.

--- A.O.R.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: Age_of_Reflection] * 1
    #14195590 - 03/28/11 12:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Age_of_Reflection said:
What religion would that be? Please don't say scientology....



The black stone of Allah is a key component of Buddhism.


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OfflineAge_of_Reflection
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14195602 - 03/28/11 12:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Oh. Forgive me, lol. Almost never fail to make myself look dumb when I post.


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One day we all will die.

If were lucky, warm in our beds,

But in truth, we lived two lives.

One external, and one in our heads.

--- A.O.R.


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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14195603 - 03/28/11 12:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You should respect religion in the sense that you do not disturb them during their rituals and do not trash talk them for their faith. Nobody (well, some might, but you can always slam the door or tell these people to fuck off if they are bothering you BUT ONLY AFTER you politely ask them to keep to themselves) should be bothering you, so don't bother them. Play nice and get along, even if you disagree. We should all have that respect for each other.


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Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14195702 - 03/28/11 12:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
is it shiny?




Yes. I guess that explains it then.


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Offlineorison
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14195740 - 03/28/11 12:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)


Quote:


http://dubaimetro.eu/featured/7271/%E2%80%9Cmekkah-metro%E2%80%9D-marks-a-green-hajj-for-pilgrims

Progress Towards A ‘Green Hajj’
The concept of a ‘Green Hajj‘ has already been discussed here at GreenProphet following the UN-backed Muslim Seven Year Plan which announced plans to encourage Muslims to be more environmentally friendly. Although there was talk of printing Qur’ans on sustainably sourced paper, reducing energy consumption at mosques and places of worship, many were cynical as to whether these plans would ever materialize. However, this year for the first time ever, pilgrims will be able to reduce their carbon footprint during hajj by travelling between Mecca’s holy sites via a very green form of public transport- the train.


Im stoned.. :stoner:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: orison]
    #14195774 - 03/28/11 12:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Does this tie into the 2001 Monolith?

"My God! It's full of bacon!" ~ Dr. Dave Bowman


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Offlineorison
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14196276 - 03/28/11 04:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:awehigh:


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: orison]
    #14196296 - 03/28/11 04:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It's a sign of Allah's covenant with man.
they don't worship the rock, the revere it as a symbol.
Much like Christians respect rainbows.

Note: very few modern Muslims consider that rock to be more than a special historical artifact. Think Last Supper- important but not Holy.


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?


Edited by Doc_T (03/28/11 04:49 AM)


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: Joolz]
    #14196395 - 03/28/11 06:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Joolz said:
You should respect religion in the sense that you do not disturb them during their rituals and do not trash talk them for their faith.


I agree with not physically disturbing/verbally harassing them during their rituals, but why should I not trash talk them for their faith? Why should stupid rituals/beliefs get respect if they are part of a major religion? :osama:



Quote:

Doc_T said:
It's a sign of Allah's covenant with man.
they don't worship the rock, the revere it as a symbol.
Much like Christians respect rainbows.

Note: very few modern Muslims consider that rock to be more than a special historical artifact. Think Last Supper- important but not Holy.



Christians don't kiss rainbows, nor do they pray to them every day; this is just a stupid, pointless ritual. :arabs:

:sheepie:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: Joolz]
    #14196779 - 03/28/11 08:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Joolz said:
You should respect religion in the sense that you do not disturb them during their rituals and do not trash talk them for their faith. Nobody (well, some might, but you can always slam the door or tell these people to fuck off if they are bothering you BUT ONLY AFTER you politely ask them to keep to themselves) should be bothering you, so don't bother them. Play nice and get along, even if you disagree. We should all have that respect for each other.



Who said they aren't bothering anyone? Look at how many kids die as a result of faith healing in the christian community. Should we just let them kill their kids because they believe that prayer will work despite any evidence?

I think that you have totally screwed up the meaning of "have respect for someone." A person is not the sum of their ideas, so I can criticize an idea all I want without disrespecting the person. You have set a double standard because you want them to be respected/sheltered by denying me the ability to criticize them. What kind of world would we live in if people just kept their mouth shut?


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InvisibleKid_Orgo
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah *DELETED* [Re: Poid]
    #14196795 - 03/28/11 08:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Kid_Orgo

Reason for deletion: fuck it, i'm staying out of this one too



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He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.


Edited by Kid_Orgo (03/28/11 09:03 AM)


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: Kid_Orgo]
    #14196807 - 03/28/11 09:03 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kid_Orgo said:
Tolerance means letting other people's stupid beliefs and rituals (that don't affect you in any way) slide without comment.


Point being?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: Poid]
    #14196825 - 03/28/11 09:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The point being that you can't just assume you are correct and they are wrong by taking a "default" scientific position on a matter. A lot of people fail to recognize that science and even materialism are just as much religions as christianity or islam


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Edited by learningtofly (03/28/11 09:08 AM)


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14196836 - 03/28/11 09:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think that was his point, I think he was trying to tell people that they should respect religions.


I don't consider science to be as much a religion as Christianity or Islam.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleKid_Orgo
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: Poid]
    #14196842 - 03/28/11 09:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I don't think that was his point, I think he was trying to tell people that they should respect religions




No, I was saying that "respecting" something and "going out of your way to trash-talk it" are not an exhaustive list of the options.


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He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: Poid]
    #14196849 - 03/28/11 09:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You put faith in the scientific method and the works produced by it don't you? You're quite dogmatic about it. Wouldn't you say that science "has the answers?"


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InvisibleKid_Orgo
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly] * 1
    #14196916 - 03/28/11 09:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
Wouldn't you say that science "has the answers?"




I know you weren't talking to me but I don't think science has the answers, science is the most rational method to figure out the answers to many things.

I leave "religion" to cover things that can't be known one way or the other.


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He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: Kid_Orgo]
    #14196920 - 03/28/11 09:35 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe not you specifically but there sure are a lot of people who treat science like a religion.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197065 - 03/28/11 10:17 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

A lot of people fail to recognize that science and even materialism are just as much religions as christianity or islam

Yeah, I can see how an evidence-based system of knowledge is the same as a random mish mash of self-contradicting made up shit that leads to such gems as "marijuana is evel" (even though it was ostensibly created by god) and suicide jihad is god's will.

Sure, exactly the same, science and religion.

Someone else put it succinctly: "Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into building".

Yep, exactly the same. :thumbdown:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197120 - 03/28/11 10:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

An issue that seems to be skirted here is the important distinction between 'respect' and 'tolerance'.  Respect is something that must be earned, the religion must impress or woo me in some way to earn my respect.  Tolerance on the other hand is given away as a default in the interest of having peace and perhaps understanding.

Praying to a rock does not in anyway earn my respect, I do not respect Islam.  But I do tolerate it (to some extent).


Quote:

Maybe not you specifically but there sure are a lot of people who treat science like a religion.




Yea, people who trash science and wish that their mysticism was elevated to a higher status.  Science is not a religion, not even close.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: Diploid]
    #14197143 - 03/28/11 10:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"Civilized" society is a hopeful belief and protest that science, money, and goods make man count for more than any other animal.

Quote:

Diploid said:
A lot of people fail to recognize that science and even materialism are just as much religions as christianity or islam

Yeah, I can see how an evidence-based system of knowledge is the same as a random mish mash of self-contradicting made up shit that leads to such gems as "marijuana is evel" (even though it was ostensibly created by god) and suicide jihad is god's will.

Sure, exactly the same, science and religion.


it's faith in a system. Just because it's evidence based doesn't make any less "religious," hell the soviet union was just as religious.

Quote:

Someone else put it succinctly: "Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into building".

Yep, exactly the same. :thumbdown:





Are you really going to try and argue that no one has used knowledge gained from the scientific fields for evil?


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197150 - 03/28/11 10:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

it's faith in a system.




That is not sufficient for it to be a religion.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: DieCommie]
    #14197161 - 03/28/11 10:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

so what is then?


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197168 - 03/28/11 10:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You want me to tell you what the definition of religion is?  You can look that up yourself.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: DieCommie]
    #14197181 - 03/28/11 10:51 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Religion is a cultural system that creates powerful and long-lasting meaning, by establishing symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values.[1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life or to explain the origin of life or the universe... The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system, but religion differs from private belief in that it has a public aspect

Do you object to that?


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197223 - 03/28/11 11:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It depends on how you are going to interpret and apply it.  I think that is a fairly weak (ie., broad) definition.  But still, it does not negate my two statements that science is not a religion and faith is not sufficient to being a religion.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: DieCommie]
    #14197248 - 03/28/11 11:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Okay, so how does it not meet those standards?

Science establishes symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values. It has narratives and traditions, and a cosmology. It is based on faith, and it is public.

I feel like you don't want to call science a religion because it happens to be successful, is this true?


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Edited by learningtofly (03/28/11 11:07 AM)


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197253 - 03/28/11 11:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It does not establish symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values, it does not have narratives and traditions, it is not based on faith.



Quote:

I feel like you don't want to call science a religion because it happens to be successful, is this true?




No


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: DieCommie]
    #14197259 - 03/28/11 11:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It tells a specific history of the universe, it uses a somewhat sacrosanct method, it is indeed based on faith (in the method).


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197279 - 03/28/11 11:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Science is the method and the models




There's a method called "science?"


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InvisibleKid_Orgo
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197286 - 03/28/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:

There's a method called "science?"




That's facetious.


--------------------
He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14197290 - 03/28/11 11:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
Quote:

Science is the method and the models




There's a method called "science?"




Yes.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: learningtofly]
    #14200304 - 03/28/11 08:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
Quote:

Age_of_Reflection said:
What religion would that be? Please don't say scientology....



The black stone of Allah is a key component of Buddhism.




WTF?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The Black Stone of Allah [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14200352 - 03/28/11 09:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)



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