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Shroomerette
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OrgoneConclusion said:
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Shroomerette said: One time I went to my friends pentecostal church with her and the preacher started yelling in tongues and a lot of other people jumped up and started yelling in tongues and there was this lady that kept trying to get me to get baptized while I was there. 
It was pretty scary.
Group mental illness is pretty scary.
I never went back there.
-------------------- Leaving the shroomery forever
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Joolz]
#14195860 - 03/28/11 01:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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People speaking in tongues has been shown to not be any form of language whatsoever, but merely the stringing together of nonsense syllables. There is no sentence structure, no similarity to anyone else's gibberish. And, of course, no message.
Not sure how this demonstrates The Spirit. However, except for setting, there is little to differentiate it from the babblings of the insane in an asylum.
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OrgoneConclusion
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If you went to my church, we would give you a very different form of 'Baptism'.
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Joolz


Registered: 09/19/10
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: People speaking in tongues has been shown to not be any form of language whatsoever, but merely the stringing together of nonsense syllables. There is no sentence structure, no similarity to anyone else's gibberish. And, of course, no message.
Not sure how this demonstrates The Spirit. However, except for setting, there is little to differentiate it from the babblings of the insane in an asylum.
This is true to you, but who are you to say what they feel? I can go on and on about how I feel weird things with my body. A Buddhist guru can talk about the chakras and all their wonder, but it does nothing if you don't believe. These people with all of their faith and beliefs have convinced themselves they are correct, and you nor I are going to change that (for the most part).
You seem to think that people's minds do not have control over their body. If you believe hard enough, you WILL feel something, no matter how fake it is. Your brain can cause things to happen with enough will power and belief.
-------------------- Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Joolz]
#14195888 - 03/28/11 01:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Perceiving something not in evidence is
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Shroomerette
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: People speaking in tongues has been shown to not be any form of language whatsoever, but merely the stringing together of nonsense syllables. There is no sentence structure, no similarity to anyone else's gibberish. And, of course, no message.
Not sure how this demonstrates The Spirit. However, except for setting, there is little to differentiate it from the babblings of the insane in an asylum.
Yeah it was definitely gibberish, I wish I had done some research on pentecostals before I agreed to go. I'm not sure there was anything to distinguish it from psycho-babble.
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OrgoneConclusion said: If you went to my church, we would give you a very different form of 'Baptism'. 
What church would that be?
-------------------- Leaving the shroomery forever
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Joolz


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OrgoneConclusion said: Perceiving something not in evidence is 
You need evidence for everything? Evidence is still human bias, no matter how hard you try to live. We change things when we perceive them.
Also, I'd like to point you to a fun little quote about craziness.
"Am I crazy? Or am I so sane that I just blew your mind?" -Cosmo Kramer
Its all perception and what YOU make of it.
-------------------- Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.
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Shroomerette
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Joolz]
#14195926 - 03/28/11 01:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Joolz, speaking in "tongues" is not language. All language has detectable patterns. A language is only a language if someone else can understand you, or could have understood you at some point in the past while the language still existed. Speech without patterns or structure cannot by definition be language.
The way they feel while spouting their gibberish does not change the fact that it is indeed gibberish.
-------------------- Leaving the shroomery forever
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Joolz


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Speaking in tongues (at least the way I learned it via my upbringing in pentecostal churches) was not supposed to be understood by human ears. They claim that they are speaking in prayer to their God.
Regardless, I'm tired of this and we're clearly going nowhere with this conversation anymore. Gonna go watch some Comedy Central or something.
-------------------- Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: XUL]
#14196293 - 03/28/11 04:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Joolz said:
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OrgoneConclusion said: Perceiving something not in evidence is 
You need evidence for everything? Evidence is still human bias, no matter how hard you try to live. We change things when we perceive them.
No, percieving things does not change things: please back up your claim with an argument as to how this could be so premised upon cited facts. It simply isn't true.
You might be interested in my "Attn Youtube Scientists" thread on quantum mechanics new agey mysticism stuff. Its basically intended to be dispositive of this issue so the claims/counterclaims don't need to be repeated elsewhere. If you've got any evidence, you'd be the first 
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XUL said:
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Tropism said: Dude I'm Canadian, it don't mean a thang to me and probably wouldn't even if I were an American.
Ok, well you got my point.
You just defined yourself for everyone to see.
What was your point? What does his posting have to do with what other people write or do or whatever being of low value- if that's the analogy being drawn?
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Tropism]
#14196405 - 03/28/11 06:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Tropism said:
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The one thing i know about Christian people is most of them are happy with life.
From my experience Christians aren't any more or less happy than anyone else, they're just more invested than anyone else in pretending they are happy.

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Joolz said: Learn respect for one's faith.
Why?
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Joolz said: While you may disagree, none of the Christians here have done anything to cause you harm. I dislike Christianity too, but that still doesn't mean I ridicule these people out of nothing. The only time (imo) it is fine to ridicule anyone for their faith is if they are pressuring you into it, or simply will NOT leave the subject alone BUT ONLY AFTER you've politely told them you do not want to take part in it.
I ridicule anybody who I find to be strange; why should Christians be immune to ridicule?
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Joolz said: Edit: The reason being, is nobody here is correct.
Tell that to a Christian.
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Joolz said: Sadly, some people do not think for themselves, but that is not the religion's fault, that is the person's.
Why can't I ridicule both the religion, and the religious? BTW, there is no religion without people who follow it, a religion is by definition an organization/institution of people.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (03/28/11 06:21 AM)
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mikeisapro
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Poid] 3
#14196597 - 03/28/11 07:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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A religion for all who hang on a cross
For the oppressed, the sick, the old, the weak, the dying, the masses, the poor, the sheep, the meek.
A sheet-anchor for the drowning.
-------------------- Life without drugs lacks substance(s).
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Kid_Orgo



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Shroomerette said: I suspect most of the people defending christianity did not grow up in the bible belt as an athiest, it is very difficult to be completely without bitterness towards them when your life is influenced at every turn by christian ideals.
Having been exposed to the very worst of Christianity's adherents doesn't make one an authority on the belief system as a whole, it leads to just what you said, bitterness. We've seen that bitterness lead to some pretty severe religious intolerance.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#14196793 - 03/28/11 08:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Kid_Orgo said:
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Shroomerette said: I suspect most of the people defending christianity did not grow up in the bible belt as an athiest, it is very difficult to be completely without bitterness towards them when your life is influenced at every turn by christian ideals.
Having been exposed to the very worst of Christianity's adherents doesn't make one an authority on the belief system as a whole...
Did she claim to be an authority of the belief system as a whole?
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Kid_Orgo said: ...it leads to just what you said, bitterness. We've seen that bitterness lead to some pretty severe religious intolerance.
What's your point?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Kid_Orgo



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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Poid]
#14196832 - 03/28/11 09:09 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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No, she didn't claim to be an authority. I didn't say she did, only that having suffered oppression at the hands of some adherents doesn't make one an impartial judge of the movement as a whole. The statement stands.
And my "point" was exactly what I said: that there is plenty of religious intolerance here based on those kind of experiences.
EDIT: If you want it in even smaller chunks, I am agreeing with her statements and noting that her experience and the resulting bitterness seem wide-spread.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
Edited by Kid_Orgo (03/28/11 09:10 AM)
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FishOilTheKid
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: 4896744]
#14196935 - 03/28/11 09:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I say that Christianity just another made up religion that is only prevalent today due to Constantine making it the religion of the Roman Empire to gain more control over his subjects.
In this being the exoteric understanding of one clear path toward transcendence or union there is, in truly giving it a chance, an inspiration behind the narrative that later was harnessed and unified as a tool of control. It is this occult inspiration that is the common thread or the Truth that leads one into the esoteric realization of the teaching: 'seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened...'
What is not made up about Christianity is that is contains a method for 'contact' that works. Call it what you will, my hope is that the scientific method and modern technology will better help us define and describe what it is that 'we' are experiencing. And, allow us a more understanding position when it comes to our relationship to the divine and its representatives.
Those who believe will be/are given hope and some proof.
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Shroomerette
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#14197485 - 03/28/11 12:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Kid_Orgo said: No, she didn't claim to be an authority. I didn't say she did, only that having suffered oppression at the hands of some adherents doesn't make one an impartial judge of the movement as a whole. The statement stands.
And my "point" was exactly what I said: that there is plenty of religious intolerance here based on those kind of experiences.
EDIT: If you want it in even smaller chunks, I am agreeing with her statements and noting that her experience and the resulting bitterness seem wide-spread.
Oh I know that I'm not impartial at all that was basically my point. I try to be impartial, but I know I'm not. I want to let it be known that I respect and shroomery christians that might be reading this, I appreciate not being preached to and I apologize if I've offended anyone.
I also want to say that I am very tolerant, especially in real life. I don't laugh at christians or tell them I think their beliefs are stupid...sometimes I do ask them some awkward questions if they are especially preachy but thats about it.
-------------------- Leaving the shroomery forever
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: 4896744]
#14198375 - 03/28/11 03:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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It took you this long to figure that out?
It does preach pretty good values (10 commandments) IMO, but don't take it literally or too seriously... otherwise you'll turn into some jesus loving weirdo.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Christianity Is Bullshit [Re: 4896744]
#14198379 - 03/28/11 03:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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iThink said: I wouldn't have thought this was even worth discussing, but apparently there are a good amount of Christians in this forum.
I say that Christianity just another made up religion that is only prevalent today due to Constantine making it the religion of the Roman Empire to gain more control over his subjects.
Oh, is that what YOU say? Well congratulations on that little tidbit of opinion about 2000 years of global history. That certainly is one small perspective, but there have been a lot of people after Constantine's death-bed decision to employ Christ over Mithras. There are also the considerations of a couple of dozen different academic disciplines, like world history, the history of religions, the sociology of religions, the psychology of religions, the history of political systems, systematic theology, the evolution of religious doctrines in Roman Catholicism, Byzantine Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox Christianity, studies of the Christian Reformation, etc., etc., etc.
World religions grow from a seed - the seed is the interior experiences of their founders: Jesus, Buddha, Zoroaster, Mani, Muhammed, Shankara, Guru Nanak, etc.. The political structures suck the life from these portals of great energy that inspire millions. The religious establishments have, in Christianity most notably, sucked life from humble believers like the machines in the Matrix sucked life from their human batteries, and then used that energy to amass fortunes and conquer other peoples. All true. But your statement is simplistic as to be silly. There's a lot more going on than the surface structures of organizational religion, and some of it is truly transcendental and transforming of human beings.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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FishOilTheKid
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Quote:
The religious establishments have, in Christianity most notably, sucked life from humble believers like the machines in the Matrix sucked life from their human batteries, and then used that energy to amass fortunes and conquer other peoples. All true.
I wish you would go into this more. I fear people don't realize how real this^ is.
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But your statement is simplistic as to be silly. There's a lot more going on than the surface structures of organizational religion, and some of it is truly transcendental and transforming of human beings.
QFT!
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