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Offlinedurantz
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I was wrong! Please forgive me.
    #14191220 - 03/27/11 09:19 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Well I have given 'homosexuality' a lot of thought since I made the post about in on this forum. I just finished having a long talk about it with father and I came to the realization that I was wrong.

I would like to apologise to everyone that I may have hurt with my comments. I ask for forgiveness so that I can move on from this and become a better person.

I truly am sorry.

To harbour such negativity against a particular class of people will only lead to more suffering.

I hope that I can redeem myself in your eyes.

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Offlinemyco99
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Re: I was wrong! Please forgive me. [Re: durantz] * 2
    #14191257 - 03/27/11 09:31 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Well I don't know you at all and have never read the initial post to which you refer, but kudos to you for progressing within yourself :rockon:


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143/0x63/99...It's like watching the mycelium grow...
WARNING: You must be 21 years of age to experience hallucinations.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: I was wrong! Please forgive me. [Re: durantz]
    #14191376 - 03/27/11 10:14 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Well I have given 'homosexuality' a lot of thought since I made the post about in on this forum. I just finished having a long talk about it with father and I came to the realization that I was wrong.

I would like to apologise to everyone that I may have hurt with my comments. I ask for forgiveness so that I can move on from this and become a better person.

I truly am sorry.

To harbour such negativity against a particular class of people will only lead to more suffering.

I hope that I can redeem myself in your eyes.





What negativity were you harboring?

To say something is a mental illness is not to say it is "bad" or "negative".


As I stated in the original thread: this is a fallacy often used in defining disease and other pathologies: i.e. "alcoholism isn't a disease, those people do it to themselves"

Whether the person or class is good, bad, repsonsible, not, worthy of sympathy or the scum of the earth has nothing to do with whether something meets clinical definitions or scientific standards. 


I suspect with the institution of greater state-medical intertwining these types of fallacious presumptions will come to be more common and harmful- leading to illogical policy and understanding.

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InvisibleKid_Orgo
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Re: I was wrong! Please forgive me. [Re: johnm214]
    #14191600 - 03/27/11 11:08 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
To say something is a mental illness is not to say it is "bad"





"Illness" doesn't mean an acceptable condition.

If it wasn't "bad" it wouldn't be an illness, it'd be an acceptable healthy characteristic.



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He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.

Edited by Kid_Orgo (03/27/11 11:13 AM)

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: I was wrong! Please forgive me. [Re: Kid_Orgo]
    #14191702 - 03/27/11 11:28 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The original poster was juding homosexuality as bad, as his post implies, and using that to determine it to be a mental illness.  My point is that a mental illness does not have to be unacceptable to others or deemed bad by them to be such.  It only requires it have some signifigant negative impact on the person's functioning themselves.

The person with clinically low self esteem and perceptions of their attractiveness, sociability, may have a better marriage, more stable social bonds between friends, percisely because they are very much not prone to arrogance or to think they could "do better" and hence run around, damage relationships.

This person would not be seen as bad despite the negative functioning the condition imparts.  Others may, in fact, value that person more highly because of their traits- as may the boss of someone agrophobic who hence stays at work longer and doesn't go out on walks and therefore gets more done.

My point is that the illness does not need to have be distasteful to others as the original poster was implying- it is defined regardless of that, only the person's functionality matters when considering if the abnormal condition is clinically diagnosable.

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InvisibleKid_Orgo
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Re: I was wrong! Please forgive me. [Re: johnm214]
    #14191725 - 03/27/11 11:36 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Ah. I was not familiar with the original discussion.

You're talking bad "socially distasteful" rather than bad "implied to be undesirable."

I see the distinction.


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He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.

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OfflineHippieChick8
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Re: I was wrong! Please forgive me. [Re: johnm214]
    #14191780 - 03/27/11 11:45 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
I suspect with the institution of greater state-medical intertwining these types of fallacious presumptions will come to be more common and harmful- leading to illogical policy and understanding.




Are you saying that the state is looking to slap labels of "mental illness" on more people in the future?  I have already seen this this occur in my lifetime.  There seems to be an epidemic of "mental illness", despite the fact that some behaviors, such as homosexuality, are no longer consideried to be abnormal by the "experts".

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: I was wrong! Please forgive me. [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14191955 - 03/27/11 12:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

We want answers for the ails of the world. And as psychology discovers more and more that we're all ill in some fashion, expect clustering according to specific manifestations to continue :lol:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: I was wrong! Please forgive me. [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14191973 - 03/27/11 12:22 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kid_Orgo said:
Ah. I was not familiar with the original discussion.

You're talking bad "socially distasteful" rather than bad "implied to be undesirable."

I see the distinction.




Yeah, on second consideration, I think I may have mistook what you said.  I generally agree that the condition must have some "bad" charecteristic for the indivual, I was just saying it doesn't need to be valued "bad" by people, justified or not, to mee the definition.  I think we agree despite my confusion :smile2:

Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
I suspect with the institution of greater state-medical intertwining these types of fallacious presumptions will come to be more common and harmful- leading to illogical policy and understanding.




Are you saying that the state is looking to slap labels of "mental illness" on more people in the future?  I have already seen this this occur in my lifetime.  There seems to be an epidemic of "mental illness", despite the fact that some behaviors, such as homosexuality, are no longer consideried to be abnormal by the "experts".




What I was getting at was that we have a tendancy to let politics and value judgments interfere with medicine in ways I think unwise.  For example: how common is the argument "alcoholics/addicts don't have a disease, they do it to themselves!".  That they "do it to themselves" has nothing to do with whether its a disease or not: if you prick your finger intentionally and get a nasty, progressing, infection, it's still a disease despite that you did it to yourself. 

Similarly, most hospital admissions at the place I used to work with had relatively obvious causes of voluntary behavior: smoking or being so overweight they couldn't care for themselves.  Does this mean they aren't sick?  Whats the difference if someone can't care for themselves because they are mentally retarded, too weak from illness, or marginally impaired due to illness and too heavy to be able to move now that they are marginally impaired (especially because its difficult to distinguish between the later two groups- its difficult to say if the person would be fine if they had lost the weight, didn't smoke, exercised more, ate better, et cet)?  Medically there is no difference: all three will die without care.  That the fat person could have still cared for themselves if they were 200 pounds lighter doesn't matter medically: they will still die without people to care for them.

It may make sense to address the issues for the fairness of more conscientuous people, such as giving everyone a government-funded medical allowance that negligent people will run through quickly, but to unequally single out the person who's condition is caused by some self-contributed behavior scorned by society (whether by intention, negligence, whatever) is to make distinctions that shouldn't be made, medically, as they are no different than the others who contributed to their condition.  Its letting politics dictate medicine: if medicine is the care of people who are ill, then it doesn't matter whatsoever how they got that way.  Why should one group be treated differently because some people don't like the particular behavior contributing to their condition, yet others who equally-contributed to their condition are left unmolested?

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OfflineWallpapereater
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Re: I was wrong! Please forgive me. [Re: johnm214]
    #14192704 - 03/27/11 02:47 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Did you pop a boner while watching 300 or something?


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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: I was wrong! Please forgive me. [Re: Wallpapereater]
    #14192944 - 03/27/11 03:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Well I have given 'homosexuality' a lot of thought since I made the post about in on this forum. I just finished having a long talk about it with father and I came to the realization that I was wrong.

I would like to apologise to everyone that I may have hurt with my comments. I ask for forgiveness so that I can move on from this and become a better person.

I truly am sorry.

To harbour such negativity against a particular class of people will only lead to more suffering.

I hope that I can redeem myself in your eyes.




It's great that you came to that conclusion. The end justifies the means. As long as you realized what you have we have no reason to blame you for anything. Not that I have before you apologized. People have different opinions. I just like your most recent one more than your previous ones :peace:.

Quote:

Wallpapereater said:
Did you pop a boner while watching 300 or something?




:lol:


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: I was wrong! Please forgive me. [Re: Kid_Orgo]
    #14193168 - 03/27/11 04:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kid_Orgo said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
To say something is a mental illness is not to say it is "bad"





"Illness" doesn't mean an acceptable condition.





Unless one accepts said illness.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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