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Offlinemrtoad25
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #14250155 - 04/06/11 09:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

OK so i checked today and my top Fruit chamber is pinning but only in the munure. The coir coffee mix has not. Nore has the coir/ manure mix. I will take pics tomorrow. The bottome FC isint pinning yet but I have now added the bottom FC to the cool mist humidifier so it can get better air exchange. Well thats all for tonight.


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Offlinemrtoad25
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: mrtoad25]
    #14253677 - 04/07/11 03:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So i didn't take any pics today. I came home and both coir/ verm mix were contaminatted with green mold. They were both growing in 2 diffwerent FC. So all i have is the horse poo and it has been great this whole time. Also this tells me that coir contams very easy IMPO. So i think for now on i wil stick with the HPOO since i have a good supply of it. I will post pics of my flushes for all to see when they are done.


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: mrtoad25]
    #14255008 - 04/07/11 07:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

coir actually is hard to get contaminations ... its the additives that help support them like the coffee ... hpoo is just a beast ... its got such good beneficial bacteria in it that it almost grows the shit for you !


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: cyantific]
    #14255041 - 04/07/11 07:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

cyantific said:
coir actually is hard to get contaminations ... its the additives that help support them like the coffee ... hpoo is just a beast ... its got such good beneficial bacteria in it that it almost grows the shit for you !




Yeah that's why i consider it superior. I was reading an article on mushroom cultivation research in which they had cultivated a superior strain of symbiotic ascomycetes that improved lignin breakdown by 60%.

From what I understand coir has more lignin than straw, which is more cellulose. So it'd reason that hpoo should be an excellent addition to coir, if for not other reason than the microbes.

I'm trying coir + straw at the moment. Man does it suck.


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The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:


Edited by anonjon (04/07/11 07:19 PM)


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: anonjon]
    #14255075 - 04/07/11 07:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

lmao bro kahuna says he loves that straw coir mix ! ive yet to fuck with it ... coir and any manure is always a solid bet ... especially hpoo ...


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OfflineMicroppose
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: anonjon]
    #14255081 - 04/07/11 07:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Why would one add hpoo to coir? They have pretty much equal fruiting capabilities IMO. It's like making a cocktail of substrates that neither improves nor hinders yield, only making it more contaminant prone with the manure. I have used both, and in the same volumes they produce likewise. You want a nutrient boost at a pocket efficient price, save your java waste, or go to a coffee shop. I'm sure they'd be glad to give you spent bean mash for free.


Edited by Microppose (04/07/11 07:25 PM)


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: Microppose]
    #14255126 - 04/07/11 07:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Because lignin is hard to digest and the manure has microbes that do it for the fungus.

That's my understanding anyway based on what I've been reading.

Some relevent google searches:
ascomycetes lignin symbiosis
ascomycetes lignin mushroom yield
coir lignin degradation

I don't pretend to understand all this, but I think I'm on the right general track.


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: Microppose]
    #14255132 - 04/07/11 07:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

huh ? yeah and the coffee will support all kinds of trich by making the ph more acidic with no benefit whatsoever other than a nitrogen boost while the hpoo will add a nitrogen boost and all kinds of beneficial bacteria ... substrate 101 :shrug:


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: cyantific]
    #14255184 - 04/07/11 07:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Here's another good google search with a lot of good reading in it:

coir manure effective microorganism

in fact, this is some of the coolest info I've seen in a while. Totally supports the idea of coir/manure mixing.


--------------------
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Edited by anonjon (04/07/11 07:44 PM)


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OfflineMicroppose
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: cyantific]
    #14255226 - 04/07/11 07:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

cyantific said:
huh ? yeah and the coffee will support all kinds of trich by making the ph more acidic with no benefit whatsoever other than a nitrogen boost while the hpoo will add a nitrogen boost and all kinds of beneficial bacteria ... substrate 101 :shrug:




"Worm castings are in no way, shape, or form the equal of coffee grinds as a food source for fungi, and it's not about nitrogen.  Mushrooms are not plants.  Disregard NPK when dealing with fungi.

Small amounts of spent coffee grinds of the nature of 5% to 10% will increase yields by 25% or more.  Commercial growers may be more successful at making it work then cubensis growers because of their higher level of experience and attention to detail, coupled with a refusal to cut corners.

Advising one to avoid coffee grinds despite the benefits, is like telling a kid to keep his tricycle forever because switching to a bicycle might cause him to skin his knees as he learns something new and more challenging.
RR" (from the man himself)

You don't get 25% yield boosts from adding manure. Coir and manure are equals as far as yield potential.


Edited by Microppose (04/07/11 07:52 PM)


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OfflineMicroppose
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: Microppose]
    #14255247 - 04/07/11 07:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If contamination is what worries you, don't add anything, use straight coir. I am confident in my abilities to grow without failure, and use coffee now and again with great results. You can use a little bit of hydrated lime to lower the PH if that is another concern. That of which I have also done.


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: Microppose]
    #14255389 - 04/07/11 08:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

nitrogen is certainly a nutrient fungi benefit from ... i even use bloodmeal with great success just for it .. theres a reason manure , wormcastings and coffee make such a difference in grows and fungi thrive on it in grows and in the wild in spor ... what exactly do you believe coffee to be contributing in a grow anyway ? its nitrogen and ph ... unfortunately that same ph also harbours molds ... dont get me wrong coffee is definately a beneficial additive , i use it in all my grain jars , but when it comes to beneficial microbes manures cant be beat and coffee doesnt even possess any ... coupled witht the fact that those same microbes ALSO help to digest undesireables in substrates like cellulose / lignins its just a win win situation ...


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: cyantific]
    #14255449 - 04/07/11 08:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry, just because RR says it, doesn't mean I have to believe it.

I'll go with the academic articles listed under the google searches I mentioned.

The N in NPK is not irrelevent, nitrogen does matter. Coffee and worm castings are nitrogen supplements, just as bloodmeal and chicken manure are.

I totally agree that worm castings are bullshit as a nitrogen supplement compared to coffee or nething else. They just aren't very rich. That doesn't mean that it doesn't have other benefits, not that I know what they are.

Do a google search on:
nitrogen supplementation mushroom cultivation

You'll see that the carbon to nitrogen ratio is one of the fundamental aspects of composting and fungus cultivation.


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Offlinemrtoad25
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: cyantific]
    #14255453 - 04/07/11 08:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

well i do have a coir/manure mix in my FC right now and it has 1 pin starting. The rest are Hpoo. I just couldn't believe how much mold was on the sides in the containers. I for now on will just stick with Hpoo. Im waiting for the pins to get a little bigger then i will add some pics maybe tomorrow. I was really hoping to be able to compare growth rates with both the coir and manure.


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OfflineMicroppose
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: cyantific]
    #14255923 - 04/07/11 09:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This is going in the wrong direction. I am saying: If you are using a coir substrate, use that only and boost with coffee or whatever else you please. If you are using shit, use that only and boost with coffee or whatever else you please. They are both equal quality of substrates FOR CUBENSIS as far as fruiting capability and nutrition, why go through the hassel of mixing them when you don't really have to. As far as cost and time efficiency the extra step is unnecessary, unless you get your poo for free. Then you are just wasting time. Beneficial microbes or not in coir, I still get the same colonization times, and yields. I am not vouching for one or the other. I am vouching for not using both at the same time because there is no REAL purpose to do so. Coir alone, manure alone, or a 50/50 coir/manure mix will all produce similarly in fashion. The only difference is how contaminant prone one is over another, and we all know which that is. Use what you have available I guess, but don't make extra steps that are unneeded.

I should have highlighted and commented on one a part of that quote above. "It's not about the nitrogen" It should read "It's not ALL about the nitrogen".
Urea is used in mushroom cultivation on many edible farms, that's around 75% nitrogen and is added for that sole purpose. Coffee does add that, although to a lower degree. As well as food and organic matter.


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: Microppose]
    #14256150 - 04/07/11 10:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

honestly the only reason i use coir at all is for water retention and fluff for my manure ... this is why i use it ... you can use the stuff without anything and still get good results ... but manure mixing with it just adds too many positives for me to ignore ... coffee and coir is good stuff too BUT the fact that it doesnt meet the myc halfway with beneficials puts me off of it ... the day i see cubensis growing off coconuts and rotting coffee plants is the day i switch over !


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OfflineMicroppose
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: cyantific]
    #14256175 - 04/07/11 10:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Things don't germinate well on coir, mold spores or psilocybe cubensis spores. And coffee beans have a hard outer shell impermeable to water under normal circumstances. That's why you'll never see any of these things being eaten by cubensis in the wild.... :laugh2:


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Offlinemrtoad25
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: Microppose]
    #14260257 - 04/08/11 07:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Alright here are some pics. This is on 3 things of manure and the skinny rectangle is coir/coffee/verm/gypsum/horsepoo mix. I have counted 33 oins so far. I did not let the casing colinize i cased the substrate and threw it in the FC.







Also if anyone has a tek for PANCYAN on horse manure could you send it to me.....


Edited by mrtoad25 (04/09/11 01:02 PM)


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Offlinemrtoad25
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Re: Horse poo and coir mix experiment [Re: mrtoad25]
    #14264898 - 04/09/11 11:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well the first flush didn't grow very big but maybe the 2nd will be better..I was just wondering how I can get bigger flusshes. The square tray is horse poo and the small rectangle trey is hpoo/co.r/coffee/gypsum. They seem to have grown really short. This is B+...







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