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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: The goal line [Re: Kickle]
    #14187048 - 03/26/11 02:12 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

...we must find it by bringing it ourselves.




...you doesn't haz somes??  Haz ta breeng some??:sad:




Maybe you should try to draw in instead of project out then see what happens...

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: The goal line [Re: Kickle]
    #14187054 - 03/26/11 02:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

For a lot of people the process may be unconscious, but the whole philosophy of existentialism is rooted in the conscious examination of how best to utilize this projection to make one's self happy.  If the process generates real feelings of satisfaction/fulfillment then it can be hardly called empty, no?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The goal line [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #14187074 - 03/26/11 02:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:lol:
:thumbup:

But I definitely don't find meaning when I draw in. Meaning is way too noisy. It wants things to be a certain way.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The goal line [Re: deCypher]
    #14187088 - 03/26/11 02:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
For a lot of people the process may be unconscious, but the whole philosophy of existentialism is rooted in the conscious examination of how best to utilize this projection to make one's self happy.  If the process generates real feelings of satisfaction/fulfillment then it can be hardly called empty, no?




Has there ever been any kind of consensus on how to achieve these feelings of satisfaction/fulfillment?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: The goal line [Re: Kickle]
    #14187101 - 03/26/11 02:22 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Why would you need a consensus?  Personal experimentation is the best way I've found to discover what activities are most meaningful to me.  :smile2:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The goal line [Re: deCypher]
    #14187178 - 03/26/11 02:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It was only a question, not a requirement. But the absence of any set thing to achieve satisfaction or fulfillment with places us back on the individual side. And when we get there, it seems death anxiety gives a nice framework to use when understanding why people look for meaning where they do. And if that's true, the pursuit of satisfaction/fulfillment through meaning is action aimed at countering an inescapable reality. And while it may not be empty on the mental level, it definitely doesn't change anything in the big picture. So to me it seems cosmically empty.

Perhaps the Buddha will eventually be proven wrong and all this mental stirring to avoid death will actually provide something that works. But I'm not betting on it.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: The goal line [Re: Kickle]
    #14187212 - 03/26/11 02:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
And when we get there, it seems death anxiety gives a nice framework to use when understanding why people look for meaning where they do. And if that's true, the pursuit of satisfaction/fulfillment through meaning is action aimed at countering an inescapable reality.




I look for meaningful activities because they make me happy.  You can attribute this to a subconscious motivation from death anxiety but for me, doing these activities makes me fulfilled rather than empty.  :lol::shrug:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: The goal line [Re: Kickle]
    #14187217 - 03/26/11 02:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Meaning is way too noisy. It wants things to be a certain way.




:sherlock:This is interesting...


I was thinking there might be something out there that you could snatch from the emptiness...  You know, skim a lil out the ether for ya.:lol:

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The goal line [Re: deCypher]
    #14187245 - 03/26/11 02:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Don't let me tell you otherwise :thumbup:

I've found the most enduring peace in seeing my inherent emptiness. From body to mind.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: The goal line [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #14187253 - 03/26/11 02:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Don't let me tell you otherwise :thumbup:

I've found the most enduring peace in seeing my inherent emptiness. From body to mind.




:lol:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The goal line [Re: deCypher]
    #14187265 - 03/26/11 02:57 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:lol:
maybe a bit too literal


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleCups
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Re: The goal line [Re: Kickle]
    #14187813 - 03/26/11 04:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:

Perhaps the Buddha will eventually be proven wrong and all this mental stirring to avoid death will actually provide something that works. But I'm not betting on it.




So what your saying is IYO this isn't something that a person can "think" their way out of?  We sure like to try.

Quote:

the pursuit of satisfaction/fulfillment through meaning is action aimed at countering an inescapable reality. And while it may not be empty on the mental level, it definitely doesn't change anything in the big picture. So to me it seems cosmically empty.




I agree.  I often wonder if that's not the very last thing to go.  That rationally reached opinion that it's empty/meaningless/pointless whatever. 

IMO To hold that view you have to have another view somewhere, deep inside that there is the possibility for the opposite.

It'd be like if a quarter had the same face on both sides.  There wouldn't be a heads and a tails side anymore. 

Empty/Full=Same

Or something like that.


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What's up everybody?!

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The goal line [Re: Cups]
    #14187903 - 03/26/11 05:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cups said:
It's as though the quarter has the same face on both sides.  There isn't a heads side and a tails side anymore. 

Or something like that.




:cheers:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflineShroomScape
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Re: The goal line [Re: Kickle]
    #14189585 - 03/26/11 11:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

At first I interpreted the question as meaning, "What is the goal line of spirituality?" Which reminded me of a quote I read from Alan Watts earlier:
Quote:

You may believe yourself out of harmony with life and its eternal Now; but you cannot be, for you are life and exist Now--otherwise you would not be here. Hence the infinite Tao is something which you can neither escape by flight nor catch by pursuit; there is no coming toward it or going away from it; it is, and you are it. So become what you are.


According to this quote and this interpretation of the Tao, the goal line doesn't exist because the race doesn't exist, because you have already reached the end.

Quote:

Where is it and how far does one have to travel to get there?




Well, that depends really. I don't think there "IS" a goal line, at least not one separate from our existence just waiting for us to stumble upon it. This reminds me of a quote from the psychologist Csikszentmihalyi,
Quote:

It is true that life has no meaning, if by that we mean a supreme goal built into the fabric of nature and human experience, a goal that is valid for every individual. But it does not follow that life cannot be given meaning… It is one thing to recognize that life is, by itself, meaningless. It is another thing entirely to accept this with resignation. The first fact does not entail the second any more than the fact that we lack wings prevents us from flying.


If reality does have a meaning, a goal line, a purpose, then I think it comes from us creating it. Like Frankl, I think we need to create our own meaning and our own goal line. If we wait for a goal/purpose to come to us, well, we might just wither away waiting our wholes lives, until we reach 90 and think to ourselves, "...shit."

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The goal line [Re: deCypher]
    #14190268 - 03/27/11 02:38 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
Don't let me tell you otherwise :thumbup:

I've found the most enduring peace in seeing my inherent emptiness. From body to mind.




:lol:



:lolsy:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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