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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
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Answering a question with a question...
#14185853 - 03/26/11 08:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Why do some people in this forum have a problem with other people answering their question with a question?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Cups
technically "here"


Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,925
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: Poid] 2
#14185863 - 03/26/11 08:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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What do you think?
-------------------- What's up everybody?!
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: Cups]
#14185870 - 03/26/11 08:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Is this a new issue?
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Grungeman17



Registered: 05/06/09
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: Poid] 1
#14185871 - 03/26/11 08:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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why is it sometimes responding with a ? is the best way to intice thoughts to the of the orgional question asker? or why would me answering your question with an answer invoke a response from you? and why as a ? answerer want that? you origional question asker you...
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: Doc_T]
#14185888 - 03/26/11 08:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cups said: What do you think?
Quote:
Doc_T said: Is this a new issue?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Grungeman17



Registered: 05/06/09
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: Poid]
#14185903 - 03/26/11 09:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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give the monkeys a button to push you bet your ass were gonna push it...
--------------------
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: Grungeman17]
#14185927 - 03/26/11 09:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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No doubt.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
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Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: Poid]
#14186298 - 03/26/11 11:17 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: Poid] 2
#14186414 - 03/26/11 11:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Its evasive and doesn't contribute much to the discussion. At best, its a type of socratic method where somebody feels the need to educate somebody else. At worst, its a conspiracy theorist or mystic just plastering questions as though that is a substitute for formulating an argument.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: DieCommie] 1
#14186506 - 03/26/11 12:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yep.
Generally people who refuse to address a point will instead simply ask a question.
Its not the question that's the problem, its the refusal to rebut the point made or show how it need not be addressed.
I also find it at best somewhat hubristic as if the "teacher" is leading me to the right answer when we pretty plainly disagree on the merits. Seems similar to the people who whine that "your just trying to dismiss my ideas" as someone accused orgone of doing recently in the "can science provide evidence of the immaterial?" thread (something like that), or demand others address "what they really mean" as if somehow we should treat others as imbeciles who can't state what they mean and yet presume we know enough about them to know what they really meant.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: DieCommie]
#14186515 - 03/26/11 12:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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What about something like this:
Person A: "Don't you know that, if you're a bad person, you're going to be reincarnated into a dung beetle?" Person B: "Do you actually believe there is a such thing as an objectively "bad" person? Do you actually believe that reincarnation is real?"
How would something like that either be evasive, or a minimal contribution to the discussion? People often answer questions with statements when they feel the need to educate somebody else; I don't see the difference.
Also, what if one is just asking questions in order to gain a clearer understanding of somebody's position? How is that in anyway evasive, or a minimal contribution to the discussion? How is that indicative of them feeling the need to educate somebody?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (03/26/11 12:21 PM)
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: johnm214] 1
#14186529 - 03/26/11 12:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I often answer a question with a question because because the question being asked is vague and I could answer in a variety of ways. I find it more constructive to narrow down a response that actually addresses what the "asker" is asking by first asking a question that requests clarification.
Or more simply, to try and aid communication on my end.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: johnm214]
#14186554 - 03/26/11 12:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: Yep.
Generally people who refuse to address a point will instead simply ask a question.
Its not the question that's the problem, its the refusal to rebut the point made or show how it need not be addressed.
I don't see how a question is necessarily a refusal to address a point--see the examples in my previous post.
Quote:
johnm214 said: I also find it at best somewhat hubristic as if the "teacher" is leading me to the right answer when we pretty plainly disagree on the merits.
I often see people answering stupid question with a question of their own, to emphasize the stupidity of the question being asked--I don't see anything inherently wrong with this technique, and I definitely think it has some utility in debate.
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johnm214 said: Seems similar to the people who whine that "your just trying to dismiss my ideas" as someone accused orgone of doing recently in the "can science provide evidence of the immaterial?" thread (something like that)...
May you explain the similarity? I don't see it.
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johnm214 said: ...or demand others address "what they really mean"...
I'm a little confused--who's "they" here, the person making the demand?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: Poid] 1
#14186616 - 03/26/11 12:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: What about something like this:
Person A: "Don't you know that, if you're a bad person, you're going to be reincarnated into a dung beetle?" Person B: "Do you actually believe there is a such thing as an objectively "bad" person? Do you actually believe that reincarnation is real?"
Pointless questions to ask. Of course if somebody believes in reincarnation they actually believe in reincarnation... The less condescending way to answer would be to say "I dont believe there is such a thing as being bad objectively, nor do I believe in reincarnation. There is no evidence for either."
Quote:
Also, what if one is just asking questions in order to gain a clearer understanding of somebody's position? How is that in anyway evasive, or a minimal contribution to the discussion? How is that indicative of them feeling the need to educate somebody?
Then you are not answering the question like the thread subject describes, you are simply asking a question.
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FishOilTheKid
Ascended


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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: Poid] 1
#14186645 - 03/26/11 12:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: Why do some people in this forum have a problem with other people answering their question with a question?
If someone makes a claim: A and you say, 'Ohh, A really?? You actually support and believe in A??'
Its just sarcastic and redundant. And if you are being honest, is just an attempt to shake someones resolve by making what they claimed seem 'unacceptable.' Its really just a reactionary move that could be more well thought out, no??
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: DieCommie]
#14186674 - 03/26/11 12:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Poid said: What about something like this:
Person A: "Don't you know that, if you're a bad person, you're going to be reincarnated into a dung beetle?" Person B: "Do you actually believe there is a such thing as an objectively "bad" person? Do you actually believe that reincarnation is real?"
Pointless questions to ask.
I don't see those questions as being pointless at all, I think the point of them is to expose the stupidity of the original questions being asked; it's a way of saying "Your questions are retarded, so much so that they aren't worthy of being answered in a respectful manner.".
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DieCommie said: Of course if somebody believes in reincarnation they actually believe in reincarnation...
And of course the person asking them if they do believe in reincarnation knows that they do.
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DieCommie said: The less condescending way to answer would be to say "I dont believe there is such a thing as being bad objectively, nor do I believe in reincarnation. There is no evidence for either."
I'm not sure what your point is; why does it matter if an answer is condescending or not? It's not like that type of response would be an ad hominem; the person asking the original questions is not being attacked, but rather the questions themselves are.
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DieCommie said:
Quote:
Also, what if one is just asking questions in order to gain a clearer understanding of somebody's position? How is that in anyway evasive, or a minimal contribution to the discussion? How is that indicative of them feeling the need to educate somebody?
Then you are not answering the question like the thread subject describes, you are simply asking a question.
Yes, a question that is a reply to the original question:
answer: something spoken or written in reply to a question
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: DieCommie]
#14186678 - 03/26/11 12:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
johnm214 said: Yep.
Generally people who refuse to address a point will instead simply ask a question.
Its not the question that's the problem, its the refusal to rebut the point made or show how it need not be addressed.
I don't see how a question is necessarily a refusal to address a point--see the examples in my previous post.
I didn't say it was, in fact I explicitly said it wasn't- only a means by which some respond and avoid addressing the issue while moving the topic of discussion. If the question was addressing the point, then there's not an issue.
Kickle's example of requesting greater specificity is one such example where the point is addressed, or rather the person states why they cannot answer the question as it is too broad to be easily, capably, answered.
Quote:
Quote:
johnm214 said: Seems similar to the people who whine that "your just trying to dismiss my ideas" as someone accused orgone of doing recently in the "can science provide evidence of the immaterial?" thread (something like that)...
May you explain the similarity? I don't see it.
The socratic question, as diecommie addressed, is premised upon an understanding of the error of the conversant whom you lead to the correct answer. This presupposes your partner is somewhat ignorant and cannot see the connection for themselves and would agree with you if they weren't so shortsighted or ignorant. For these reasons it feels patronizing, as diecommi mentions.
Quote:
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johnm214 said: ...or demand others address "what they really mean"...
I'm a little confused--who's "they" here, the person making the demand?
the person making the demand, i.e. "you're just trying to dismiss my point. You know what I mean!" (In reply to a rebuttal of my previous point)
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Poid said: What about something like this:
Person A: "Don't you know that, if you're a bad person, you're going to be reincarnated into a dung beetle?" Person B: "Do you actually believe there is a such thing as an objectively "bad" person? Do you actually believe that reincarnation is real?"
Pointless questions to ask. Of course if somebody believes in reincarnation they actually believe in reincarnation... The less condescending way to answer would be to say "I dont believe there is such a thing as being bad objectively, nor do I believe in reincarnation. There is no evidence for either."
Yeah, I agree. To ask if someone "really believes" what they just stated is either an appeal to incredulity (likely) or somewhat patronizing as you're asking them if they mean what they have said- the implication being that the person may be incapable of expressing themselves or forming a consistant idea, presumptions I'd rather not have people be making about me.
Diecommie's suggested method, for example, avoids such condescension or fallacy and directly responds in denial of the claimed argument. This does not patronize or take incredulity at the person's argument, but simply state's your evaluation of it. (of course plenty of people have a hissy fit if you disagree with them, but that's not worth worrying about unless there's actually a legitimate insulting inference. If they can't emotional tolerate the possibilty of disagreement they shouldn't be posting in a philosophy forum. The "mystical"/"spiritual" posters stereotypically have these problems, for example)
Quote:
Also, what if one is just asking questions in order to gain a clearer understanding of somebody's position? How is that in anyway evasive, or a minimal contribution to the discussion? How is that indicative of them feeling the need to educate somebody?
Then you are not answering the question like the thread subject describes, you are simply asking a question.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: Poid]
#14186755 - 03/26/11 01:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
it's a way of saying "Your questions are retarded, so much so that they aren't worthy of being answered in a respectful manner.".
And that is why answering questions with a question is lame, and pointless. Saying such a thing adds absolutely nothing to the discussion and is intellectually lazy. Do you actually believe that answering a question with a question if fruitful and worthy?
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Posts: 40,372
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: johnm214]
#14186793 - 03/26/11 01:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
johnm214 said: Yep.
Generally people who refuse to address a point will instead simply ask a question.
Its not the question that's the problem, its the refusal to rebut the point made or show how it need not be addressed.
I don't see how a question is necessarily a refusal to address a point--see the examples in my previous post.
I didn't say it was, in fact I explicitly said it wasn't- only a means by which some respond and avoid addressing the issue while moving the topic of discussion. If the question was addressing the point, then there's not an issue.
You said it's not the question that's the problem, but rather the refusal to rebut the point etc.--I incorrectly assumed that you were implying that all such questions necessarily refuse to rebut the point, and that, somehow, the question itself isn't the problem.
Quote:
johnm214 said: Kickle's example of requesting greater specificity is one such example where the point is addressed, or rather the person states why they cannot answer the question as it is too broad to be easily, capably, answered.

Quote:
johnm214 said: The socratic question, as diecommie addressed, is premised upon an understanding of the error of the conversant whom you lead to the correct answer.
I thought it was just premised upon a mere understanding that the conversant is incorrect, I didn't think Socratic questioning is necessarily premised upon an understanding of the specific error; one can know that a person is in error without understanding their error, right?
"I don't understand WTF you just said, but it sure as fuck ain't correct." 
Quote:
johnm214 said: This presupposes your partner is somewhat ignorant and cannot see the connection for themselves and would agree with you if they weren't so shortsighted or ignorant. For these reasons it feels patronizing, as diecommi mentions.
I don't see why this matters, though--it isn't an ad hominem, so why is it being patronizing even an issue?
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johnm214 said:
Quote:
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johnm214 said: ...or demand others address "what they really mean"...
I'm a little confused--who's "they" here, the person making the demand?
the person making the demand, i.e. "you're just trying to dismiss my point. You know what I mean!" (In reply to a rebuttal of my previous point)
Oh--I kind of see the similarity, but don't think it's very significant.
Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Poid said: What about something like this:
Person A: "Don't you know that, if you're a bad person, you're going to be reincarnated into a dung beetle?" Person B: "Do you actually believe there is a such thing as an objectively "bad" person? Do you actually believe that reincarnation is real?"
Pointless questions to ask. Of course if somebody believes in reincarnation they actually believe in reincarnation... The less condescending way to answer would be to say "I dont believe there is such a thing as being bad objectively, nor do I believe in reincarnation. There is no evidence for either."
Yeah, I agree. To ask if someone "really believes" what they just stated is either an appeal to incredulity (likely) or somewhat patronizing as you're asking them if they mean what they have said- the implication being that the person may be incapable of expressing themselves or forming a consistant idea, presumptions I'd rather not have people be making about me.
So, because you take it personally, this means it has no utility in a debate?
Quote:
johnm214 said: Diecommie's suggested method, for example, avoids such condescension or fallacy and directly responds in denial of the claimed argument. This does not patronize or take incredulity at the person's argument, but simply state's your evaluation of it. (of course plenty of people have a hissy fit if you disagree with them, but that's not worth worrying about unless there's actually a legitimate insulting inference. If they can't emotional tolerate the possibilty of disagreement they shouldn't be posting in a philosophy forum. The "mystical"/"spiritual" posters stereotypically have these problems, for example)
Yeah, they don't like to be questioned one bit.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Answering a question with a question... [Re: DieCommie]
#14186840 - 03/26/11 01:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
it's a way of saying "Your questions are retarded, so much so that they aren't worthy of being answered in a respectful manner.".
And that is why answering questions with a question is lame, and pointless. Saying such a thing adds absolutely nothing to the discussion and is intellectually lazy.
I guess I see where you're coming from--it may not add to the discussion, but generally such questions are asked when it is assumed that the original questions are known by most people to be retarded, so in a way they invalidate them IMO (by making them seem retarded).
Quote:
DieCommie said: Do you actually believe that answering a question with a question if fruitful and worthy? 
I don't know, should I?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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