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InvisiblePoid
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What causes one to want others to suffer?
    #14185431 - 03/26/11 04:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

IYO, is the desire for others to suffer (physically or otherwise) a sign of bad health, good health, or neither? :septemberlol:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinemigraineur
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: Poid] * 1
    #14185473 - 03/26/11 04:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think you'd find most people want revenge if they're stooged by someone. This is also talked about in 'game theory' which is quite interesting. People who are dividing up goods are willing to go without any of those goods/rewards in order to punish someone else if that someone else has been scamming others. Some people are outright psychopaths though. I've got some documentaries on psychopathy and violence and it tests people's potential for these traits. Even normal people have the ability to get real violent given the right circumstances.

Type game theory into Wikipedia and have a read. I was thinking of ordering some books on it from Amazon.com. It's applied to many things such as war, economics etc. You could also read about revenge etc too and stuff like retributive justice.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: migraineur]
    #14185482 - 03/26/11 04:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I remember game theory being mentioned in A Beautiful Mind, it is most definitely an interesting concept; this thread isn't about revenge in particular, though, but rather about the desire for others to suffer in general (which can be borne out of many things, like a general dislike for a certain individual for example).


Quote:

migraineur said:
Some people are outright psychopaths though. I've got some documentaries on psychopathy and violence and it tests people's potential for these traits. Even normal people have the ability to get real violent given the right circumstances.


Can you link me to a good torrent for such a documentary? :smile:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinemigraineur
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: Poid] * 1
    #14185526 - 03/26/11 05:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I can't be bothered searching through trackers right now but here are some things I have that you can look for. Just try using Pirate Bay or ISOhunt. Also, if you type these terms into the search boxes then you will find HEAPS of various documentaries. Type in things like BBC, national geographic, discovery channel. You can also try their websites and Youtube is a gold mine for documentaries. Those companies often host heaps of free stuff on Youtube.

In regards with titles, try these:

I psychopath

How Mad Are You

Criminology for Dummies

This site is also wicked: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/

Here are two cool Australian sites that let you watch various shows and it's also totally legal too.

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/

www.sbs.com.au

Check the section 'documentaries' and 'news and current affairs' on the ABC site. I'm sure you can browse your way through the SBS site. SBS won an international award for being so unique.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: migraineur]
    #14185541 - 03/26/11 05:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

migraineur said:
In regards with titles, try these:

I psychopath

How Mad Are You

Criminology for Dummies


I think I might check these out, thanks for the reference. :mushroom2:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinemigraineur
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: migraineur] * 1
    #14185547 - 03/26/11 05:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This is a classic example given during game theory. It basically shows how your friends might snitch on you if either of you are caught by the cops etc. Check out the other links within too. You could go on reading forever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma

Oh yeah, another documentary by the BBC is 'How Violent Are You?'.

Al Jazeera has awesome content too. Check the website for videos and podcasts and even the Al Jazeera Youtube channel. Don't let people who have never actually visited the site or watched the show try to convince you that it's some terrorist news channel. Al Jazeera and the BBC are probably the two best news outlets in my opinion. It's proper news, not gossip news about some Hollywood slag's latest drinking binge etc. Their journalists generally worked for western media outlets first too.

English.aljazeera.net

This is also a cool documentary:


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: migraineur]
    #14185560 - 03/26/11 05:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Will definitely check that stuff out, thanks--I used to be one those people who thought that Al-Jazeera was just some terrorist news channel until now. :tongue:

:arabs:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinemigraineur
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: Poid] * 1
    #14185607 - 03/26/11 06:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Get this too! You won't regret it: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0391024/

It's called Control Room.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: Poid]
    #14186597 - 03/26/11 12:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I know it may be hard to believe...

But, there are intelligent systems of energy that draw in and maintain themselves with the energy created by human suffering.

And, there are those people that have sided with these 'systems' and are working to get them what they need.

The dense energy of human suffering is used to further shape and control the human populace as it is a very powerful form of consciousness and can be harnessed and directed at them with specific intent.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #14186604 - 03/26/11 12:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
I know it may be hard to believe...


Well at least you know something. :tongue:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: Poid]
    #14186620 - 03/26/11 12:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
I know it may be hard to believe...


Well at least you know something. :tongue:




...ask me something you've always wanted to know...??:lol:


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #14186630 - 03/26/11 12:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That didn't make sense to me, but maybe I'm just too sleep-deprived. :lol:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: Poid]
    #14186652 - 03/26/11 12:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hmm,intresting concept indeed. I wonder, those energy systems that you are talking about, hmm..you belive they are actually created by someone? Or they are somekind of what the Gnostic might name "eggregore" an collective mind created by people sharing same beliefs/thoughts that gained enough energy to manifest it`s own conciousness?


--------------------
Love exists in everything,it`s all a matter of perspective.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: Damkina] * 1
    #14187061 - 03/26/11 02:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Poid, if you're interested in psychopaths check out the book Mask of Sanity: http://cassiopaea.org/cass/sanity_1.PdF ; it's a well-written analysis of the case histories of various psychopaths.  :psycho:

As far as what causes one to want others to suffer, sadism seems to be a common motive: if watching other people suffer gives one pleasure then it's only natural to want others to suffer.  Asking why sadism itself exists is a much more difficult question IMO.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: Damkina]
    #14187172 - 03/26/11 02:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I wonder, those energy systems that you are talking about, hmm..you belive they are actually created by someone?




Yes.  Hierarchical groups of people and spirit/energy/consciousness disincarnate also.


Quote:

Or they are somekind of what the Gnostic might name "eggregore" an collective mind created by people sharing same beliefs/thoughts that gained enough energy to manifest it`s own conciousness?




Pretty much exactly. 

Not too long ago I had a dream of what the connections between people's energy systems look like spatially and how one of these 'higher' systems comes together or is built within and in the physical.

These ads seem pretty close...:smirk:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #14187187 - 03/26/11 02:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
Quote:

I wonder, those energy systems that you are talking about, hmm..you belive they are actually created by someone?




Yes.  Hierarchical groups of people and spirit/energy/consciousness disincarnate also.




"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rules of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."  :satansmoking:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: deCypher]
    #14188314 - 03/26/11 06:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Wanting others to suffer is simple ego based defense mechanism psychology. Projection to be more specific, you are suffering deep down inside, but the ego does not want to acknowledge this. Thus, it projects its suffering onto other people, by making other people suffer, thus trying to rid itself of it's internal suffering. Provides temporary relief to a permanent problem... and down goes the spiral...


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^v^


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OfflineShroomScape
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: Poid]
    #14188802 - 03/26/11 08:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I forget where I heard this:

Quote:

"Some people try to be tall by cutting off the ends of others."




Edited by ShroomScape (03/26/11 08:13 PM)


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OfflineI AM SWIM
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: Poid]
    #14192572 - 03/27/11 02:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
IYO, is the desire for others to suffer (physically or otherwise) a sign of bad health, good health, or neither? :septemberlol:





i think it's a sign of bad health, both physically and mentally.

I think physical and mental health are interrelated to an extent.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: I AM SWIM]
    #14194047 - 03/27/11 07:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I AM SWIM said:
Quote:

Poid said:
IYO, is the desire for others to suffer (physically or otherwise) a sign of bad health, good health, or neither? :septemberlol:





i think it's a sign of bad health, both physically and mentally.



Why?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineI AM SWIM
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: Poid] * 1
    #14194434 - 03/27/11 08:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

I AM SWIM said:
Quote:

Poid said:
IYO, is the desire for others to suffer (physically or otherwise) a sign of bad health, good health, or neither? :septemberlol:





i think it's a sign of bad health, both physically and mentally.



Why?




Because whenever I have a desire for something, I instantly set myself up into a stage of suffering for wanting something I do not have. Instead, when I am happy with what I have right now, that's when I am free from the suffering of desire.

Now a desire for other people to suffer doesn't quite mix well with the belief that 'desire is a form of suffering.'

As for being a physical and mental health issue.
It's interrelated in the sense that, if I'm depressed, then that will affect my body.
If I am mentally depressed, my physical body will reflect that through the difficulty of getting out of bed or sleeping too much, not exercising (causing muscle atrophy),
not eating, or eating too much. (overweight - obesity/underweight - lack of nutrition) which affects both the health of the mind and body.

I don't think it is always like that though. I'm sure there are cases of very physically healthy people that are severely mentally unhealthy too.


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OfflineMLDSMDA
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: Poid]
    #14233706 - 04/03/11 10:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Most of the time when I see someone like that it's because it's happened to them and they like the control it makes them feel, compared to the out of control feeling when it has happened to them if it makes sense. It's not healthy behavior. Not to say everyone who has that desire must have had that happen to them though.


Edited by MLDSMDA (04/03/11 10:06 PM)


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: foliocb]
    #14234658 - 04/04/11 03:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

foliocb said:
Wanting others to suffer is simple ego based defense mechanism psychology. Projection to be more specific, you are suffering deep down inside, but the ego does not want to acknowledge this. Thus, it projects its suffering onto other people, by making other people suffer, thus trying to rid itself of it's internal suffering. Provides temporary relief to a permanent problem... and down goes the spiral...




The ego is unable to acknowledge suffering deep down as this is subconscious stuff now.  As the protector and barrier it is not a question of want for the ego, but of just doing its job.

As for the notion that pissing off people and being a dick is somehow trying to rid oneself of internal suffering, well bullshit.  More like misery loves company.   

And let's face it, it takes far more muscles to frown, so by wiping off their silly grins you are actually helping them burn calories.  Plus most people are so stupid and stuck in their fucking ruts they deserve a little wake up call in the form of some asshole fucking with them.  And let's face it it can be fun to fuck with people unless they pull a weapon out or do something back that isn't fun for you.  So be careful kids who you fuck with.

Of course, I am talking about being a general nuisance and pain in the ass, and not real suffering like physically hurting someone.  That shit is just uncalled for and can lead to an assault charge and who needs that on their record even if the dumb fuck needed an ass whipping?  Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me.  As some on here would agree with this bullshit too I spout it out for their head bobbing.

Words can't hurt are you kidding me?  What you never heard of emotional abuse?  Now, you can say "toughen up" and take all that shit like a man but come on, should you really have to?

But let's say you really should toughen up and take all that emotional abuse like it really wasn't suffering.  Or maybe you get to the point where you can poke a needle through your skin and it hurts a lot but at some point you get used to it and wow your friends are really sickened by it so you do it to impress them.  Who is suffering in that situation?

Do we make others suffer because they let us and then can whine because we made them suffer so much that they let us do it again and again?  I think the term is co-dependency which likely goes beyond the scope of this discussion.  Or perhaps not.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlinefoliocb
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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #14234674 - 04/04/11 03:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Actually most defense mechanisms are subconscious as well so it doesn't matter. The ego will try until the day it's dead to prove its existence, some people do this by projecting their suffering onto other people, whether it be physical and/or mental pain. The ego is very tricky... then you can dwindle in shadow psychology if you dare but thats a lecture in itself.


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Re: What causes one to want others to suffer? [Re: Poid]
    #14236340 - 04/04/11 02:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)



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