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DarkMatterOfFact
ZealtheDealforthePill



Registered: 07/29/09
Posts: 1,602
Loc: South Cali
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Quote:
Penguarky Tunguin said: Because the novelty eventually wears off and you realize that people who think psychedelics are the answer to everything are no different then people who think jesus is the answer to everything.
The answer to everythin does start in the mind i would think...look at buddha or einstein or any of the legendary problem solvers. Youd think psychs would play a big role in mind expansion. Unless you never used it to begin with then it would be novelty.
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Nixon was a asshole. Just look at his biggest creation. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the DEA. Which secretly stands for Demonizing Everyone by Allegations.
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The Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
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Re: Why are psychedelics not a bigger deal? [Re: Poid]
#14178652 - 03/24/11 09:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: It's called death anxiety
I would agree this is partially responsible for our repulsion against these types of experiences. Ego death and other reality-bubble-poppers are not very fun, however insightful they may be.
But at the same time, unlike Icelander and a few others here I don't buy death anxiety as being a primary motivator for our behavior.
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The Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
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Quote:
Penguarky Tunguin said:
I agree. But many psychonauts I've met believe they (the drugs) are the answer. I'm not sure if you've ever read Ken Wilber, but I think his work is a natural progression from RAW's work. One of my favorite sayings of his is "Make sure to turn temporary states into permanent traits." Meaning, take what you experience from the psychedelic state and integrate them into a more permanent life trait.
Many trippers, especially newbies, do not realize this, and are impressed with the new visuals and outlook on life, which is great, but it is definitely not the key to anything. It's just simply another step in the walk of life.
Also very true.
I just personally think these compounds can save a lot of time and can potentially afford a tremendous amount of intellectual progress for some people.
It's equivalent to the old adage of, "you can either take the train to New York, or take a Jumbo Jet."
I wouldn't over-appreciate psychedelics as being necessarily more important than any other step, but as McKenna said, it's a big enough mystery that forgoing it is like never discovering sex.
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gerryjarcia
biophiliac



Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 1,889
Loc: the woods
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Re: Why are psychedelics not a bigger deal? [Re: The Whale]
#14178675 - 03/24/11 09:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Whale said:
Quote:
You can live out a scripted existence if that's what you seek because we've already got the script written and waiting.
As a social creature, and given how expansive and pervasive human culture is, I would say it is difficult to grow or mature as an individual [soul/person/Self/spirit] without identifying at least partially with the roles and identities that you inherent out of necessity and contact.
Maybe the implication is to what extent we identify and attach ourselves to those roles as if they possess any real meaning beyond the artificiality and "social transience" of its creation.
QFT
that question of "to what extent we identify and attach ourselves to those roles as if they possess any real meaning beyond the artificiality and "social transience" of its creation" is one i think on often.
i need to head to bed. i could stay up all night talking about this stuff. infinitely interesting.
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"We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Why are psychedelics not a bigger deal? [Re: The Whale]
#14178678 - 03/24/11 09:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Whale said: But at the same time, unlike Icelander and a few others here I don't buy death anxiety as being a primary motivator for our behavior.
Figures.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Penguarky Tunguin
f n o r d


Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 17,192
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Quote:
DarkMatterOfFact said:
Quote:
Penguarky Tunguin said: Because the novelty eventually wears off and you realize that people who think psychedelics are the answer to everything are no different then people who think jesus is the answer to everything.
The answer to everythin does start in the mind i would think...look at buddha or einstein or any of the legendary problem solvers. Youd think psychs would play a big role in mind expansion. Unless you never used it to begin with then it would be novelty.
Right. I'm saying psychedelic are definitely catalysts, but the problem people don't realize is that they will eventually run out of things to show you. Or to put it another way: YOU will run out of things to glean from the psychedelic state. It's then that they become less and less important, and more difficult to not slip back into some semblence of yourself before your tripped. Of course you're different and changed, but you're still the same person on some level before you started tripping.
-------------------- Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.
Edited by Penguarky Tunguin (03/24/11 09:18 PM)
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android313
zzzzzz


Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 77
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Quote:
Penguarky Tunguin said: Because the novelty eventually wears off and you realize that people who think psychedelics are the answer to everything are no different then people who think jesus is the answer to everything.
Agreed.
But psychedelics are meant to give you a different perspective of it all, whereas Jesus is meant to be an answer for everything. There are no illusions with psychedelics; interpret it as you please. And I think, most psychedelic users, would admit, that they're utterly clueless of the bigger picture. One thing you immediately learn is that, you can't interpret it all, only just appreciate it. To say the human brain can "answer" all the universe's mysteries is simply arrogant.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Why are psychedelics not a bigger deal? [Re: android313]
#14178705 - 03/24/11 09:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
android313 said: There are no illusions with psychedelics...
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Penguarky Tunguin
f n o r d


Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 17,192
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Re: Why are psychedelics not a bigger deal? [Re: android313] 1
#14178706 - 03/24/11 09:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
android313 said:
Quote:
Penguarky Tunguin said: Because the novelty eventually wears off and you realize that people who think psychedelics are the answer to everything are no different then people who think jesus is the answer to everything.
There are no illusions with psychedelics.

Really?
-------------------- Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.
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The Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
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Re: Why are psychedelics not a bigger deal? [Re: Poid]
#14178715 - 03/24/11 09:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Right. I'm saying psychedelic are definitely catalysts, but the problem people don't realize is that they will eventually run out of things to show you. Or to put it another way: YOU will run out of things to glean from the psychedelic state. It's then that they become less and less important, and more difficult to not slip back into some semblence of yourself before your tripped. Of course you're different and changed, but you're still the same person on some level before you started tripping.
Word. Hence Watts' infamous, "when you get the message, hang up the phone."
But even our (typically novice) exuberance to grasp at psychedelics as though they are the key is a revealing feature in and of itself. It indicates that people are capable of manufacturing meaning. After all, nothing is truly "there" behind the visions but ourselves. So it is still a stark contrast to others who derive meaning externally from people, temples, churches, books, or other places. I believe this is one reason the experience is so often compared to Eastern mysticism - because of the internal dialog that is involved.
But the fact we can grasp onto these compounds is also indication that people's desires for answers are still burning hot, ergo, that the answers haven't yet been found.
Quote:
Poid said: Figures.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Why are psychedelics not a bigger deal? [Re: The Whale]
#14178723 - 03/24/11 09:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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LOL, what the hell? That looks so familiar for some reason... /\ (yes, that's another question! )
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android313
zzzzzz


Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 77
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Quote:
Penguarky Tunguin said:
Quote:
android313 said:
Quote:
Penguarky Tunguin said: Because the novelty eventually wears off and you realize that people who think psychedelics are the answer to everything are no different then people who think jesus is the answer to everything.
There are no illusions with psychedelics.

Really?
Ahhh! After it's all said and done I mean* Nothing explicitly says, 'believe this, believe that' as religion does.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Why are psychedelics not a bigger deal? [Re: android313]
#14178736 - 03/24/11 09:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
android313 said: Nothing explicitly says, 'believe this, believe that' as religion does.
This is bullshit, lots of people form delusional beliefs as a result of using psychedelics.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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The Inner Eye



Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 1,151
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Why are psychedelics not a bigger deal? [Re: android313]
#14178740 - 03/24/11 09:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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What does QFT mean???
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Why are psychedelics not a bigger deal? [Re: The Inner Eye]
#14178747 - 03/24/11 09:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quit Fucking Talking
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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android313
zzzzzz


Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 77
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: Why are psychedelics not a bigger deal? [Re: Poid]
#14178753 - 03/24/11 09:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
android313 said: Nothing explicitly says, 'believe this, believe that' as religion does.
This is bullshit, lots of people form delusional beliefs as a result of using psychedelics.
Such as?
Or are you referring to mental disorders?
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The Inner Eye



Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 1,151
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Why are psychedelics not a bigger deal? [Re: Poid]
#14178762 - 03/24/11 09:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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mAYBE EVERYONE SHOULD STOP THIS PISSING CONTEST AND STOP TRYING TO DESCRIBE THE INEFFABLE. OOOPS caps was on... I was not yelling! Its different for everyone! be happy you're breathing!
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DarkMatterOfFact
ZealtheDealforthePill



Registered: 07/29/09
Posts: 1,602
Loc: South Cali
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Quote:
Penguarky Tunguin said:
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Poid said:
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gerryjarcia said: i was assuming we were talking about one person growing up in the same culture for most of their life.
Even then, you can switch to a new group of friends, learn the proper mannerisms when you eat dinner at a friend's house, learn the new rules of the school you're going to, get along with people at your new job, and many more things that involve socialization.
Quote:
DarkMatterOfFact said:
Quote:
Penguarky Tunguin said: Because the novelty eventually wears off and you realize that people who think psychedelics are the answer to everything are no different then people who think jesus is the answer to everything.
The answer to everythin does start in the mind i would think...look at buddha or einstein or any of the legendary problem solvers. Youd think psychs would play a big role in mind expansion. Unless you never used it to begin with then it would be novelty.
Right. I'm saying psychedelic are definitely catalysts, but the problem people don't realize is that they will eventually run out of things to show you. Or to put it another way: YOU will run out of things to glean from the psychedelic state. It's then that they become less and less important, and more difficult to not slip back into some semblence of yourself before your tripped. Of course you're different and changed, but you're still the same person on some level before you started tripping.
Yeah it is pretty weird how the effect or influence lessens each trip you do. Especially with lsd. But i beleive like i said it relates to intelligence level, attitude, the energy you give off, lifestyle and hole shit load of variables in how much it alters you. Because when i did way too much acid my last trip, I changed basically to a different person in like every aspect. Goal wise and spiritually, u name it. Only thing didnt change was my looks and the type of women i like.
--------------------
Nixon was a asshole. Just look at his biggest creation. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the DEA. Which secretly stands for Demonizing Everyone by Allegations.
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Penguarky Tunguin
f n o r d


Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 17,192
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Re: Why are psychedelics not a bigger deal? [Re: android313]
#14178768 - 03/24/11 09:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
android313 said: Nothing explicitly says, 'believe this, believe that' as religion does.
This is bullshit, lots of people form delusional beliefs as a result of using psychedelics.
Such as?
Or are you referring to mental disorders?
No. It's what I said in my first post. Delusional in the sense that they think drugs are the answer, that all they have to do is keep on taking them and eventually they're gonna be smarter, and wiser, and more enlightened the even the tripper who realized that they had one answer that led to a thousand more questions.
Enlightenment is a delusion.
-------------------- Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.
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The Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc:
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Re: Why are psychedelics not a bigger deal? [Re: The Inner Eye]
#14178783 - 03/24/11 09:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Inner Eye said: mAYBE EVERYONE SHOULD STOP THIS PISSING CONTEST AND STOP TRYING TO DESCRIBE THE INEFFABLE. OOOPS caps was on... I was not yelling! Its different for everyone! be happy you're breathing!
Sharing isn't a pissing contest.
Neither is communication for the sake of expression.
I used to confuse this with pissing contests long ago and, unfortunately, end up hating people because of it.
It was a mistake.
But,
yes,
the
experience
is
often
more
ineffable
than
the
reason
I
decided
to
write
in
this
direction.
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