|
badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: Poid]
#14175789 - 03/24/11 01:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Poid said: If it hasn't been tested, then how come medical marijuana employees are well-versed in the effects of the strains they sell, and how are they able to determine which strains treat certain ailments more effectively? Why did you conveniently ignore this point?
Hey, you deleted your post! 
If you provided me a well-designed study showing that under double blind conditions, people could identify a strain difference, I'd be convinced. Perhaps you could ask them next time you visit?
The only evidence for the dispensaries claims, are their own claims, whether true or not. If you and others are coninced its true, then so be it.
However, in my humble opinion, the power of placebo and expectancy is extremely strong and there is ample research behind it. I tend not to believe things until they are well tested.
The leap of faith logic behind the previous study, was that if people can't tell the difference between pure THC, and THC with CBD (an extract), it's unlikely they could discern numerous strain differences.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
|
twighead
mͯó



Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 29,562
Loc: Glenn Gould's Fuck Windmill
Last seen: 41 minutes, 53 seconds
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: Patlal]
#14175906 - 03/24/11 01:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Patlal said: From what I heard its hard to get decent weed for a good price in the states.
Maybe in the south.. or east, but here out west/north... You find far more dank than shwag and generally at what I consider a decent price (140-160$/oz)
|
collie man
Jai guru deva om



Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 3,665
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: twighead]
#14175946 - 03/24/11 01:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
@op
But i can agree with the strain part to a certain degree. Strains to me are a aesthetic thing. Weed is just indica or sativa nowadays to me.
--------------------
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: badchad]
#14175970 - 03/24/11 01:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
badchad said: If you provided me a well-designed study showing that under double blind conditions, people could identify a strain difference, I'd be convinced. Perhaps you could ask them next time you visit?
If I remember to, I might, but my own experiences, and the experiences of others speak for themselves; even people who were not aware of the specific claimed effects of certain strains before smoking them experienced those effects.
Quote:
badchad said: The only evidence for the dispensaries claims, are their own claims, whether true or not.
No, people's experiences corroborate with their claimed effects--I find it more than highly ludicrous that you can even suggest that different strains do not produce different highs. I know, from vast experience, that dense, purple nugs are good for sleep--I wasn't told this by somebody else before I figured it out on my own. I also know, from vast experience, that if I want to be somewhat active, then I should choose a lighter, sweeter-smelling, fluffier strain, because these phenotypes indicate that the strain is a sativa.
I can tell, instantly, after taking a hit of a joint/blunt which I didn't witness being rolled, whether or not the weed that was rolled is an indica, sativa, or an indica/sativa hybrid. This precludes the possibility of the effects being merely psychosomatic; if they were, then I would not be able to accurately guess what strain I'm smoking when hitting a joint that I didn't witness being rolled, the effects would be random and would not correlate well with the types of bud that I am under the impression cause them (the effects).
Quote:
badchad said: If you and others are coninced its true, then so be it.
There is no evidence that the EXTREMELY CONSISTENT correlations between certain buds and their supposed effects are merely coincidental, and that the effects themselves are merely psychosomatic--you have absolutely no logical basis on which to assume this, all the currently available evidence is against your position on this matter.
Quote:
badchad said: However, in my humble opinion, the power of placebo and expectancy is extremely strong and there is ample research behind it. I tend not to believe things until they are well tested.
Once again, there is no evidence that the EXTREMELY CONSISTENT correlations between certain buds and their supposed effects are merely coincidental, and that the effects themselves are merely psychosomatic; if you tend to not believe in things until they are well tested, then why do you appear to hold so much stock into this ludicrous idea?
Quote:
badchad said: The leap of faith logic behind the previous study, was that if people can't tell the difference between pure THC, and THC with CBD (an extract), it's unlikely they could discern numerous strain differences.
I agree; like I said, that is a HUGE leap of faith. Neither Marinol nor marijuana extract produce a variation of highs that are significantly comparable to the variation of highs reported by marijuana users who have used various strains--one cannot determine from that study that a pot smoker's ability to discern the differences in the highs that various strains produce is similar in degree to his/her ability to determine such differences between Marinol and marijuana extract.
Also, you seem so quick to rule out that people's experiences with marijuana aren't merely psychosomatic, yet don't seem to even bother to consider whether the highs experienced by the people in the study you cited who used Marinol and marijuana extract were merely psychosomatic; this demonstrates your obvious bias on the matter.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (03/24/11 02:02 PM)
|
badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: Poid]
#14176052 - 03/24/11 02:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Meh, like I said. It's an empirical question. It would be interesting to see what people can, and cannot, discern.
Under double blind conditions, lots of interesting things happen due to expectancy.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
|
pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: twighead]
#14176119 - 03/24/11 02:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
twighead said:
Quote:
Patlal said: From what I heard its hard to get decent weed for a good price in the states.
Maybe in the south.. or east, but here out west/north... You find far more dank than shwag and generally at what I consider a decent price (140-160$/oz)
BS. There's no way that someone with your average hook-ups can get dank for $140/oz . You're just bragging about your hook-up.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: badchad]
#14176278 - 03/24/11 02:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
badchad said: Meh, like I said. It's an empirical question. It would be interesting to see what people can, and cannot, discern.
I've done it, and I've seen it--if you actually had any first-hand experience, and knew several other people who have had such experience as well, you would understand how silly your skepticism is.
Why do you ignore the EXTREMELY CONSISTENT correlations between certain buds and their supposed effects, and what exactly makes you so suspicious of them? You have no reasonable grounds to be suspicious of them, this is pure tinfoilery, to its fullest extent. 
Quote:
badchad said: Under double blind conditions, lots of interesting things happen due to expectancy.
High Times Pot Snob about different Marijuana Strains
Quote:
Indica marijuana types produce a couch lock experience. Many indica marijuana types (Medijuana, Afghani) are excellent medicinal marijuana strains for people who have pain issues.
Growers with some experience might want to switch to a sativa like Super Silver Pearl or New York City Diesel to experience a wholly unique sativa marijuana high.
Why do you think Pot Snob is saying this? Do you believe that he has absolutely no logical grounds to believe this? Do you believe that, although its true that those strains ALWAYS produce the same high that they're expected to, those highs are merely psychosomatic? Really?
Often times, when someone is skeptical about something, their skepticism has at least some semblance of a rational basis--this is not the case for your skepticism here. 
Read this study, tell me what you think.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Crasher
αἱρετίζω




Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 6,220
Loc: Tardy to the Party
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: Patlal]
#14176357 - 03/24/11 02:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I worked at a dispensary for all of 2010 and can honestly tell you there is a significant difference between various strains.
The basic difference between Sativa and Indica is obviously the most recognized by casual and medical smokers alike.
We sent all of our meds to a lab to get quantitative data on THC, CBD, and CBN values. They were also tested for mold and mildew occasionally.
The experience between a high CBD, low THC containing bud is clearly different to most smokers than a high THC, low CBD containing bud.
It doesn't take a double blind study to detect the internal difference between the psychoactive properties of THC and the Analgesic properties of CBD and CBN.
-------------------- Give me silence, water, hope; Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: Crasher]
#14176379 - 03/24/11 03:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Crasher said: It doesn't take a double blind study to detect the internal difference between the psychoactive properties of THC and the Analgesic properties of CBD and CBN.
But those psychoactive/analgesic properties are merely psychosomatic.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Happy2fly
The Champ!




Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 1,287
Loc: The land of many thousand...
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: pwnasaurus]
#14176798 - 03/24/11 04:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
pwnasaurus said:
Quote:
twighead said:
Quote:
Patlal said: From what I heard its hard to get decent weed for a good price in the states.
Maybe in the south.. or east, but here out west/north... You find far more dank than shwag and generally at what I consider a decent price (140-160$/oz)
BS. There's no way that someone with your average hook-ups can get dank for $140/oz . You're just bragging about your hook-up.
It doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Here in MN, I can get an oz of premium grade bud for $400 that sells for $20/gram in smaller quantities. I was just in Montana last week, and found pot that was just as good for only $30 per 1/8. If I bought an oz at the 1/8 price, it would only be $240. After the quantity discount, I could see an oz going for much less than $200 out there...
-------------------- The fire has many things to teach. But so does the human experience.. which is like fire, sometimes you just need to stoke the coals and sometimes you just need to add a log or reposition the log matrix. But a well built fire will be much more self-sustaining than a poorly built one, and they all need love to grow. And don't fuck around or your might burn yourself. Must always respect the fire. - Shroomism
|
realfuzzhead



Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 10,783
Loc: above the smog layer
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: Happy2fly]
#14177075 - 03/24/11 04:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
its not like "oh my god that green crack is so much different from the lemon haze!" its just the whole smoking experience can differ with different weeds. Smells different, look different, feels different, breaks up different. Tastes different, and the high's arent really "different"(besides indica vs. sativa), but how fast it its you and the different combination of indica/sativa in hybrids can definitely make highs differnet.
plus its fun as fuck to walk into a MMJ clinic and look at all the different types of weed and their ratio's of THC/CBD, soo nice..
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: realfuzzhead]
#14177091 - 03/24/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
realfuzzhead said: ...the high's arent really "different"...
They actually are--have you tried "Trainwreck"?
IME, each strain has its own unique flavor of high.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
realfuzzhead



Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 10,783
Loc: above the smog layer
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: Poid]
#14177116 - 03/24/11 04:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
yes ive tried them all. They are different in a sense, but not different as in a completely different list of effects, OUTSIDE THE OBVIOUS DIFFERENCE BETWEEN INDICA/SATIVA.
i seriously smoke a different strain, of which I am told the levels of THC/CBD every other day or two, so im talking more from experience than hearsay
|
badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: realfuzzhead]
#14177178 - 03/24/11 05:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Poid said: Why do you ignore the EXTREMELY CONSISTENT correlations between certain buds and their supposed effects, and what exactly makes you so suspicious of them? You have no reasonable grounds to be suspicious of them, this is pure tinfoilery, to its fullest extent. 
I'd be curious to see the results of a nice study. This is because I've seen really interesting things happen under a double blind and have a lot of experience doing it. Expectancy and bias are enormous areas of study, and personally interesting to me. It's why double blind is a scientific standard.
Right now, its just a whole lot of people making claims. Groupthink is a strong tendency.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: badchad]
#14177188 - 03/24/11 05:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
You skipped over the study I linked to--are you even reading my posts? Talk about being biased...
Also, you're not even responding to my individual points, which is disappointing to say the least.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: Poid]
#14177301 - 03/24/11 05:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I don't believe that study wasn't blinded, which kinda defeats the purpose.
Your only other point is: everyone says it's so, so it must be true. You don't really perform correlations on random descriptions from random people under random circumstances.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: badchad]
#14177346 - 03/24/11 05:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
badchad said: I don't believe that study wasn't blinded, which kinda defeats the purpose.
It's still reliable as evidence, though.
Quote:
badchad said: Your only other point is: everyone says it's so, so it must be true. You don't really perform correlations on random descriptions from random people under random circumstances.
I also have provided tons of person experience--I know this isn't evidence, but there doesn't appear to be a double-blind study for something of this nature. I would assume that this is because it is so self-evidently true that different strains cause different highs.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Ajaxx
Amateur Mycologist



Registered: 03/06/11
Posts: 1,303
Loc:
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: Poid]
#14177426 - 03/24/11 05:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
this thread is going no where fast.
no one is going to convince anyone else of anything here.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: Ajaxx]
#14177475 - 03/24/11 05:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I agree with him that there aren't any double-blind tests which suggest that different strains of weed yield different highs, I just think it's ridiculous, given the available evidence, to need to see such a test in order to believe it.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
obaku
student of theuniverse


Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 142
Loc: Northwest Oregon
|
Re: Differences between weed strains [Re: Poid]
#14180732 - 03/25/11 07:35 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Some weed makes me feel energized and talkative, while other weed is couchlock. But the same weed can make me feel different depending on my mood, time of day, whether I've eaten lately, etc. Cuttings of the same strain do not always have the same qualities, and how the strain is grown and how long the buds mature on the plant and how long the dried buds have aged all play a significant role. A strain somebody called "Erik" won fourth place in the growers' cup here in Oregon last year, and none of the judges or people who smoked it could tell it was the famous "Jack Herrer" strain that so many people should be very familiar with. Maybe buds from the top of the plant have different effects from the buds on the lower branches. Also, buds grown in real sunlight are different from those grown under electric lights. Testing a sample is always better than just hearing the strain's name.
-------------------- The master's gone herb gathering, somewhere on the mountain, cloud-hidden, whereabouts unknown.
|
|