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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineDrugstore Cowboy
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here is something you can't understand
    #14165216 - 03/22/11 03:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Have any of you pondered the possibility of killing another person? I don't mean in any sick fantasizing way, people get caught up in situations and shit happens.

Do you think you're capable of it? What would drive you to it? How do you think it would change you.

The thought entered my head because I had to chase off my sisters junkie ex con sociopath boyfriend a knife point a few times and and it left me really hoping the motherfucker doesn't come back around. If not for his sake then the sake of my soul.

I am very peaceful by nature, violent natured people repulse me... but to protect the safety of my family, my own life, or the life of a loved one I... I think I'd be able to kill if it absolut ly came down to it. Actually I know this with most certainty because I nearly did.

But even if the person was scum and I was 100% in the right... it would torment me for the rest of my life. What are your thoughts, not about my situation... just speculate about yourselves.

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OfflineDrugstore Cowboy
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: Drugstore Cowboy]
    #14165223 - 03/22/11 03:16 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: Drugstore Cowboy]
    #14165355 - 03/22/11 03:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I wouldn't lose any sleep over killing people I thought were the bad guy.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineNoOneImportant
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: Icelander]
    #14165362 - 03/22/11 03:47 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If it came down to me or him, there wouldn't even be a thought or regret.


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Take when in need.  Give when you can.

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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: Icelander]
    #14165369 - 03/22/11 03:48 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

A history of perpetual violence has unfolded thanks to people's uncanny ability to convince us there is such thing as an "enemy," though it's definition and face continually changes.


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OfflineDrugstore Cowboy
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: The Whale]
    #14165387 - 03/22/11 03:51 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
A history of perpetual violence has unfolded thanks to people's uncanny ability to convince us there is such thing as an "enemy," though it's definition and face continually changes.




You're right. All we do with violence and abuse is pass the torch down to the next generation. It's up to the individual to break the cycle of action and reaction. projection and resentment. Revenge and Justice.

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OfflineDrugstore Cowboy
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: Icelander]
    #14165391 - 03/22/11 03:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Define "Bad Guy"

This aint Boondock Saints we're talking about,

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: The Whale]
    #14165392 - 03/22/11 03:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Enemies do exist.  Anyone trying to take my life or a friends without just cause is my enemy.

But of course just because my govt sez someone is my enemy doesn't make it the truth.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: Icelander]
    #14165665 - 03/22/11 04:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

It's up to the individual to break the cycle of action and reaction.




According to R.A. Wilson's interpretation of Buddhism, that is part of the "good work" to be undertaken. It is the acknowledgment, transformation, and then re-direction of negative energy.

Turning anger into blueberry muffins: this makes God happy and stifles nuclear proliferation while enhancing oxytocin proliferation.

It's a win-win, sergeant. But it ain't easy.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: The Whale]
    #14165702 - 03/22/11 04:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

All the nice sunny meadows and bunny rabbits vanish when someone is coming at you with a knife and deadly intentions.

Violence sucks, but when it's thrust upon you, you respond in kind or get hurt or killed, and no amount of pithy phases can change that.

The unfortunate consequence for the world is the ugly place you see around you right now. No matter that a billion people profess peace and love, all it takes is one tiny piece of dog shit to ruin the entire soup.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: The Whale]
    #14165724 - 03/22/11 04:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It is impossible to know if what you are doing in any moment is good or bad
But you can calmly make a qualified guess based on experience and that's the best way to make decisions - not to get carried away so to speak

What is just cause for killing someone?
Is it that that someone has killed or is going to kill


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with our love with our love we could save the world

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: Ferdinando]
    #14169087 - 03/23/11 10:17 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ferdinando said:

What is just cause for killing someone?
Is it that that someone has killed or is going to kill




Or you can end a needless cycle of violence. Do you know what a life sentence is Norway? 12 years. Why? Because they believe that just because someone does something bad doesn't make them a bad person, and that they can be rehabilitated. Their murder rate is something like 0.8 per 100,000 compared to the US which is like 8.5 or something.


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Edited by learningtofly (03/23/11 10:17 AM)

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: learningtofly]
    #14169254 - 03/23/11 10:47 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

And the victim gets to come back to life after 12 years - a fair exchange. :thumbup:


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14169285 - 03/23/11 10:52 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

So you're a fan of lex talionis?


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: learningtofly]
    #14170049 - 03/23/11 01:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

lex talionis is a result of social conditioning and sustained overuse of senseless brain pathways
don't blame those who are slaves or victims of any kind of nature
trying to make things better is way better


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: learningtofly]
    #14173877 - 03/24/11 01:50 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
So you're a fan of lex talionis?


You're not a fan of fairness?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: Poid]
    #14174762 - 03/24/11 09:17 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

fairness is just part of habitual thinking
it does not really exist in any other way than as a mental construct
it should be observed and let go of immediately IMO in favor of preserving other forms of life


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: Ferdinando]
    #14174781 - 03/24/11 09:22 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ferdinando said:
fairness is just part of habitual thinking
it does not really exist in any other way than as a mental construct


What's your point? :smile:


Quote:

Ferdinando said:
it should be observed and let go of immediately IMO in favor of preserving other forms of life


I don't really understand what you're saying here--why must one "let go" of fairness in order to preserve "other forms of life"? What other forms of life are you speaking of?

Do you really have no problem with people who get away with treating others unfairly?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: Poid]
    #14174847 - 03/24/11 09:44 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

it's like right
there is no right other than as opposed to left

does fairness = eye for an eye
or does eye for an eye only = eye for an eye (man punching or removing or whatever an eye as exchange for similar act towards himself)
fairness does not really exist, it's just a meaningless concept based on math

do I have a problem with the first time a man looses an eye?
as much as the second time


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: here is something you can't understand [Re: Ferdinando]
    #14174945 - 03/24/11 10:07 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ferdinando said:
it's like right
there is no right other than as opposed to left

does fairness = eye for an eye
or does eye for an eye only = eye for an eye (man punching or removing or whatever an eye as exchange for similar act towards himself)
fairness does not really exist, it's just a meaningless concept based on math


I personally attach meaning to it, so it's not subjectively meaningless to me.


Quote:

Ferdinando said:
do I have a problem with the first time a man looses an eye?
as much as the second time


So you have as much a problem with the second person who took out the first person's eye in retaliation for having his eye taken as you have with the first person who took the second person's eye out without any provocation whatsoever?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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