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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us?
#14174445 - 03/24/11 07:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I AM SWIM
doin' thangs



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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: Poid]
#14174478 - 03/24/11 07:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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If by 'consciousness', you mean one being aware that one is conscious. Then I would say that dolphins most certainly do.
Dolphins are one of the smartest creatures on earth. Dolphins also have to consciously take breaths in order to live.
I don't know about other animals.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: I AM SWIM]
#14174494 - 03/24/11 07:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I AM SWIM said: If by 'consciousness', you mean one being aware that one is conscious.
Well I said "possess consciousness like us", so you should know exactly what I mean. 
Quote:
I AM SWIM said: Dolphins are one of the smartest creatures on earth. Dolphins also have to consciously take breaths in order to live.
I don't know about other animals.
On what basis do you believe that it's more likely that consciousness exists in more intelligent animals (like dolphins) than other not-so-intelligent ones?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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AIRDOG



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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: Poid]
#14174519 - 03/24/11 07:58 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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certainly this jaguar has
conciousness
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: AIRDOG]
#14174539 - 03/24/11 08:04 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Aww, that was so cute! Thanks for posting. 
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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I AM SWIM
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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: Poid]
#14174608 - 03/24/11 08:31 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:]Well I said "possess consciousness like us", so you should know exactly what I mean. 
All animals posses consciousness just like us..
Self-awareness is a different story.
Quote:
On what basis do you believe that it's more likely that consciousness exists in more intelligent animals (like dolphins) than other not-so-intelligent ones?
Based on scientific experiments, (dolphins and mirrors, and dolphin communication)
When it comes down to self-awareness, 'intelligence' plays a huge role IMO.
I also highly reccommend watching the movie The Cove if you're interested.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: I AM SWIM]
#14174640 - 03/24/11 08:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I AM SWIM said:
Quote:
Poid said:]Well I said "possess consciousness like us", so you should know exactly what I mean. 
All animals posses consciousness just like us..
Self-awareness is a different story.
May you explain the distinction?
Quote:
I AM SWIM said: I also highly reccommend watching the movie The Cove if you're interested.
I'll see wassup.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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I AM SWIM
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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: Poid]
#14174662 - 03/24/11 08:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:]May you explain the distinction?
Consciousness is basically "The state or condition of being conscious"
Which anything that is alive is conscious.
Self-awareness AKA Self-Consciousness is "Self-consciousness is an acute sense of self-awareness."
I would go in more depth about it, instead of grabbing definitions from the internet, but I have a bunch of thangs I gotta be doin'.
Peace 4 Now.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: I AM SWIM]
#14174679 - 03/24/11 08:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I AM SWIM said:
Quote:
Poid said:]May you explain the distinction?
Consciousness is basically "The state or condition of being conscious"
Which anything that is alive is conscious.
Even sphincter cells?
Quote:
I AM SWIM said: Self-awareness AKA Self-Consciousness is "Self-consciousness is an acute sense of self-awareness."
You're kind of confusing me here--first you're saying that self-awareness and self consciousness are the same thing (by saying that self-awareness is also known as self-consciousness), then you go on to say that self-consciousness is an acute form of self-awareness. This doesn't make sense, either they're both the same thing, or one of them is an acute form of the other; which is it?
Quote:
I AM SWIM said: I would go in more depth about it, instead of grabbing definitions from the internet, but I have a bunch of thangs I gotta be doin'.
Peace 4 Now.
Goin' fishing again?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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alcoholocaust
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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: Poid]
#14174709 - 03/24/11 09:02 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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My dog knows when hes fucked up. if i walk in from the smoking and he did something wrong, as soon as he sees me he runs and hides. he knows an ass whoopin is in the works
--------------------
I dont like cocaine.... Just the smell of it
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I AM SWIM
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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: Poid]
#14174726 - 03/24/11 09:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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When I said: Self-Consciousness is "Self-consciousness is an acute sense of self-awareness."
the "Self-consciousness is an acute sense of self-awareness" was a definition I pulled from the internet.
IMO, Self-Consciousness and Self-Awareness are one and the same.
Quote:
Poid said:]Goin' fishing again? 
Naw, goin' schoolin'
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I AM SWIM
doin' thangs



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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: I AM SWIM]
#14174740 - 03/24/11 09:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: I AM SWIM]
#14174907 - 03/24/11 09:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: Why or why not?
I often wonder about this.... especially when I catch a catfish. They start barking at you like they're really freaking out or having a very experience
and it makes me 
consciousness like us? i dunno, sometimes even something that gets eaten by the millions every day like a shrimp seems to have a bit of a personality.
so I think they do, at least to some extent. You can look into their eyes and see that they are at least conscious.
i guess one of the main things I wonder about is to what extent do they perform self-reflection. Horses get stir crazy. Can't blame 'em. I wonder if a fish in a livewell (small ice chest sized container) reflects on how he isn't happy living in containment
ive got more questions than answers
Edited by the bizzle (03/24/11 09:58 AM)
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Kickle
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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: Poid] 1
#14174913 - 03/24/11 09:58 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I believe many creatures are conscious of much the same material as we are. Product of similar brains. And I also believe there are differences in depth. For instance a dog has an olfactory bulb to sift through smells, but it's much larger than our own and likely introduces a greater depth of conscious experience in terms of smells than our own. And I believe they are conscious of the material because they react to it in a way that indicates they are aware of it.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Poid
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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: Kickle]
#14174924 - 03/24/11 10:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
the bizzle said:
Quote:
Poid said: Why or why not?
I often wonder about this.... especially when I catch a catfish. They start barking at you like they're really freaking out or having a very experience
and it makes me 
consciousness like us? i dunno, sometimes even something that gets eaten by the millions every day like a shrimp seems to have a bit of a personality.
so I think they do, at least to some extent. You can look into their eyes and see that they are at least conscious.
i guess one of the main things I wonder about is to what extent do they perform self-reflection. Horses get stir crazy. Can't blame 'em. I wonder if a fish in a livewell (small ice chest sized container) reflects on how he isn't happy living in containment
ive got more questions than answers
I personally don't believe that most other animals are capable of self-reflection--I'm inclined to think that only animals that are capable of experiencing depressive mood states can reflect on themselves (but this is not to say that all animals that are capable of such mood states necessarily have the ability to reflect on themselves).
I don't know if fish have been observed to exhibit depressive behaviors, I kind of doubt it, though...
Quote:
Kickle said: I believe many creatures are conscious of much the same material as we are. Product of similar brains. And I also believe there are differences in depth. For instance a dog has an olfactory bulb to sift through smells, but it's much larger than our own and likely introduces a greater depth of conscious experience in terms of smells than our own.
This is basically my perspective on the issue.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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DieCommie

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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: Poid] 1
#14174939 - 03/24/11 10:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes I do. 'Like us' as in similar to us. I presume that the closer their genetics and environment is to ours, the closer their consciousness is to ours.
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Poid
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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: DieCommie]
#14174966 - 03/24/11 10:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I agree. 
I wonder why some people think animals don't possess human-like consciousness...
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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DieCommie

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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: Poid] 1
#14175043 - 03/24/11 10:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I suspect most people do. Those that don't have the notion that humans are somehow special or separate from nature and the eco system. Here in the states, they may not believe in evolution and think that god created us special, or they may be secular but still have that Christan style ideology of man being separate from nature buried deep within them (which often happens IME, people reject Christian myths but still believe in Christian style ideology).
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Poid
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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: DieCommie]
#14175071 - 03/24/11 10:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: (which often happens IME, people reject Christian myths but still believe in Christian style ideology)
I've noticed this quite a bit, too; an example IMO would be non-Christians who hate homosexuals.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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GrizzlyBear
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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: DieCommie]
#14175117 - 03/24/11 10:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Bears.
Bears go into deep meditation.
I'm a Bear.
Bears are self-aware.
And their solitary.
Study Bears.
--------------------
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Poid
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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: GrizzlyBear]
#14175141 - 03/24/11 11:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I saw this a little while ago, it blew my mind:
Animal Planet - Growing Up Grizzly
Quote:
Jennifer Aniston stars in Growing Up Grizzly 2, a one-hour Animal Planet special event that brings viewers up-to-date with orphaned grizzly bears Bart and Honey-Bump, premiering Sunday, January 18 at 8 PM (ET/PT). The cubs were first introduced in Growing Up Grizzly, starring Brad Pitt, which airs immediately following Aniston's special at 9PM (ET/PT).
Aniston and Pitt got involved in the Growing Up Grizzly specials after Pitt worked with professional animal trainers Doug and Lynne Seus while filming Legends of the Fall. Bart and Honey-Bump were adopted by the Seuses after the bears' mother was killed by a hunter when they were cubs.
Growing Up Grizzly 2 picks up with Bart and Honey-Bump at three-and-a-half years old — happy, healthy adolescent bears who take a liking to Aniston. She bonds with the bears, runs them through some training drills for their professional acting jobs and leads viewers on a journey across the wild lands of the Northwest to explore the grizzly bears' struggle to survive in their ever-diminishing habitat.
"That was amazing," said Aniston after her first hands-on encounter with Bart. "Something intense...It really looks like you can get right down and roll around with them. I don't know why, but it makes you emotional."
Growing Up Grizzly 2 takes viewers to the set of Bart's big movie debut, follows wild grizzly bears on a hunt for salmon in the far reaches of Canada and enlightens viewers about the Seuses' dedication to preserving the grizzly habitat and protecting all wildlife through their non-profit Vital Ground.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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the bizzle
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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: Poid] 1
#14175151 - 03/24/11 11:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
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Boozerguyzer
Dweller



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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: Poid] 1
#14175158 - 03/24/11 11:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I definitely think so. My dog is in tune with my emotions; he can tell when I'm stressed, excited, nervous, etc. Toby is good shit. Oh and also conscious lol. But also, what about Mushrooms? I pasted Terence Mckenna's "Message from the Mushroom" below, it really highlights an interesting perspective on these life forms. In fact, the largest/oldest living organism on our planet turned out to be a HUGE ass mycelium network before logging roads divided it up. It is estimated to have been in existence for 2,200 years and thus has seen the forest living above it die off and regrow and die off again. Pretty wild shit, no wonder they have so much to share with us! Too bad they don't speak engirsh...or more like too bad we don't speak mycelian
"I am old, older than thought in your species, which is itself fifty times older than your history. Though I have been on earth for ages I am from the stars. My home is no one planet, for many worlds scattered through the shining disc of the galaxy have conditions which allow my spores an opportunity for life. The mushroom which you see is the part of my body given to sex thrills and sun bathing, my true body is a fine network of fibers growing through the soil. These networks may cover acres and may have far more connections that the number in a human brain. My mycelial network is nearly immortal, only the sudden toxification of a planet or the explosion of its parent star can wipe me out. By means impossible to explain because of certain misconceptions in your model of reality all my mycelial networks in the galaxy are in hyperlight communication across space and time. The mycelial body is as fragile as a spider’s web but the collective hypermind and memory is a vast historical archive of the career of evolving intelligence on many worlds in our spiral star swarm. Space, you see, is a vast ocean to those hardy life forms that have the ability to reproduce from spores, for spores are covered with the hardest organic substance known. Across the aeons of time and space drift many spore-forming life-forms in suspended animation for millions of years until contact is made with a suitable environment. Few such species are minded, only myself and my recently evolved near relatives have achieved the hyper-communication mode and memory capacity that makes us leading members in the community of galactic intelligence. How the hypercommunication mode operates is a secret which will not be lightly given to man. But the means should be obvious: it is the occurrence of psilocybin and psilocin in the biosynthetic pathways of my living body that opens for me and my symbiots the vision screens to many worlds. You as an individual and man as a species are on the brink of the formation of a symbiotic relationship with my genetic material that will eventually carry humanity and earth into the galactic mainstream of the higher civilizations.
Since it is not easy for you to recognize other varieties of intelligence around you, your most advanced theories of politics and society have advanced only as far as the notion of collectivism. But beyond the cohesion of the members of a species into a single social organism there lie richer and even more baroque evolutionary possibilities. Symbiosis is one of these. Symbiosis is a relation of mutual dependence and positive benefits for both of the species involved. Symbiotic relationships between myself and civilized forms of higher animals have been established many times and in many places throughout the long ages of my development. These relationships have been mutually useful; within my memory is the knowledge of hyperlight drive ships and how to build them. I will trade this knowledge for a free ticket to new worlds around suns younger and more stable than your own. To secure an eternal existence down the long river of cosmic time I again and again offer this agreement to higher beings and thereby have spread throughout the galaxy over the long millennia. A mycelial network has no organs to move the world, no hands; but higher animals with manipulative abilities can become partners with the star knowledge within me and if they act in good faith, return both themselves and their humble mushroom teacher to the million worlds all citizens of our starswarm are heir to.”
-------------------- "There was a time when I could not find, the spirit of God BEYOND the mind. In retrospect the intellect is blind, it makes me think that I'm, the reason for all that's mine, even this rhyme I'm inclined to believe is from me, instead of being received. This is how we're deceived. How am I more than dust? when it's your love that animates us? Forever I will trust. Your love is better than lust. You. Live. Forever In Us." KRS ONE
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


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Re: Do you believe other creatures possess consciousness like us? [Re: the bizzle] 1
#14175159 - 03/24/11 11:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
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