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Invisiblehamloaf
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: highc]
    #14173348 - 03/23/11 11:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The most important pinning trigger is fresh air exchange.  Moisture evaporation from the surface of the substrate is the affect of FAE.


If you'v had pinning prior to full colonization, either your substrate was receiving FAE instead of GE due to an air leak in your seal, or the substrate was fighting infection.


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OfflineBlazinBlizzard
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: hamloaf]
    #14173392 - 03/23/11 11:28 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Im starting to think no matter what I
Quote:

hamloaf said:
The most important pinning trigger is fresh air exchange.  Moisture evaporation from the surface of the substrate is the affect of FAE.


If you'v had pinning prior to full colonization, either your substrate was receiving FAE instead of GE due to an air leak in your seal, or the substrate was fighting infection.




Im starting to believe no matter what I read on here or how well its written, Ill find 5 just as well written things saying the opposite.


sighhh


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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: BlazinBlizzard]
    #14173478 - 03/23/11 11:49 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BlazinBlizzard said:


Im starting to believe no matter what I read on here or how well its written, Ill find 5 just as well written things saying the opposite.




try treating what people say, with only a little bias based on who is saying it, as guidelines or opinions instead of gospel. ultimately, no matter how much you know, you are still going to have to find out what works best for you in your situation/climate/resources/etc.

but yes, I still feel that way when I search the forums for quality info...  I learn the most from making mistakes. but if not for all the quality info on the site, I'd probably not have even attempted it at all to make those mistakes and subsequent progress.

keep at it!

:peace:


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Invisiblehamloaf
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: BlazinBlizzard]
    #14173660 - 03/24/11 12:30 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Im starting to believe no matter what I read on here or how well its written, Ill find 5 just as well written things saying the opposite.


sighhh



Moisture evaporation would not be able to occur with out the contact of fresh air.  It's simple cause and effect.  Fresh air is the cause, moisture evaporation is the effect. 


I'm only trying to help by sharing the knowledge, wisdom, and experience I have with the subject matter at hand with you in attempt to save the mushrooms, man and in no way shape or form would ever steer you in the wrong direction with intentions of hurting your's and others' grows.  You can try dropping this and other questions like this off in a post in this thread here.  As stated above, take information given to you with a bias of who is giving the information.  Most importantly, the only true way to kill or sustain information is through research.

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Invisiblebiologys
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: hamloaf]
    #14173686 - 03/24/11 12:37 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I stopped using bags long time ago, but always taped my holes..because of facey's and prof. P steady saying how well the tightly stuffed polyfil works, i tried it since, i cant argue with someone, when i haven't tried....needless to say, their method proved to work great for me...:shrug: everyone has their own ways of doing things..i had mine


well after trying it, i'll never tape my holes again lol

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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: BlazinBlizzard]
    #14173697 - 03/24/11 12:40 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Im starting to believe no matter what I read on here or how well its written, Ill find 5 just as well written things saying the opposite.


sighhh




Mushroom cultivation in general is a very, very new field. We've been growing plants and domesticating animals inside and outside for tens of thousands of years. Mushroom cultivation indoors at home is only nearing it's 100-year mark, and the whole field on known mushroom cultivation is at most a mere 2,000 years, and maybe as little as 1,000. That's at best 5-10% of the amount of time and study spent on other types of domestication of nature. As such, we only understand fungi about 5-10% as well as we do plants and animals... which we really only understand well enough to be aware of our own ignorance on the topics. :rofl:

HEPA filters, which are now a staple for mushroom cultivation and hospitals, didn't show up until around world war II, which is also why people died from infections from surgeries far more frequently in the earlier part of the 20th century than they do today.

That post from SixTango/Agar is severely outdated. Unfortunately, there's no good way to separate the good information from the bad. 50 years from now, we'll still be learning amazing things about fungus.

As you probably know, Fungi are one of the most unique, diverse, and difficult organisms to study also, making the acquisition of knowledge about it that much more difficult.

One last thought, which I meant to place in this thread a while back but forgot:

There is ample evidence suggesting fungi absorb energy from the sun in the form of light/radiation. There are spectrums of light and/or radiation we cannot see, but penetrate through things considered solid. It's more than likely the case that the types of light waves the fungi use can penetrate through soil, though this is speculation. Since spawn benefits from being on a light schedule, it stands to reason in outdoor conditions, the mycelium is exposed to beneficial radiation from the sun as well, penetrating through the soil to the fungi.

Besides, keeping your cultures in the dark all the time is a big pain in the ass. :lol:


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: biologys]
    #14173707 - 03/24/11 12:41 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

biologys said:
I stopped using bags long time ago, but always taped my holes..because of facey's and prof. P steady saying how well the tightly stuffed polyfil works, i tried it since, i cant argue with someone, when i haven't tried....needless to say, their method proved to work great for me...:shrug: everyone has their own ways of doing things..i had mine


well after trying it, i'll never tape my holes again lol





Welcome to the club of the breather's society! :rofl2:


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Invisiblehamloaf
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: biologys]
    #14173749 - 03/24/11 12:54 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

biologys said:
I stopped using bags long time ago, but always taped my holes..because of facey's and prof. P steady saying how well the tightly stuffed polyfil works, i tried it since, i cant argue with someone, when i haven't tried....needless to say, their method proved to work great for me...:shrug: everyone has their own ways of doing things..i had mine


well after trying it, i'll never tape my holes again lol




I am all with PP and FN's logic (obviously) of the polyfil stuff during colonization of the bulk substrate and stand by my mates in what ever they decide to do.  I have experienced/researched this ideology as well.  I think it's a great method for the cultivator who's goal is to obtain mushrooms quickly. 


Truth be told, personally, I am a subscriber to the whole high levels of CO2 during colonization coupled with good GE during colonization and more substrate being left for fruiting mycelium to colonize when and while the mycelium's being controlled hormonally to be triggered to pin.  Thus being beneficial by leaving more of the substrate's nutrients to be consumed by mycelium that's been hormonally triggered to pin.


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Edited by liquidmyce (03/24/11 01:00 AM)

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Invisiblebiologys
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: hamloaf]
    #14173768 - 03/24/11 01:02 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

i see your point...i guess with me, after 2nd flush im tossing anyway,so it doesn't really matter.. since i usually always have anywhere from 20-30 more jars ready to go at any given time lol

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OfflineProfessorPinHead
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: biologys]
    #14174246 - 03/24/11 05:23 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:rockon:

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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: hamloaf]
    #14174392 - 03/24/11 06:55 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
Quote:

biologys said:
I stopped using bags long time ago, but always taped my holes..because of facey's and prof. P steady saying how well the tightly stuffed polyfil works, i tried it since, i cant argue with someone, when i haven't tried....needless to say, their method proved to work great for me...:shrug: everyone has their own ways of doing things..i had mine


well after trying it, i'll never tape my holes again lol




I am all with PP and FN's logic (obviously) of the polyfil stuff during colonization of the bulk substrate and stand by my mates in what ever they decide to do.  I have experienced/researched this ideology as well.  I think it's a great method for the cultivator who's goal is to obtain mushrooms quickly. 


Truth be told, personally, I am a subscriber to the whole high levels of CO2 during colonization coupled with good GE during colonization and more substrate being left for fruiting mycelium to colonize when and while the mycelium's being controlled hormonally to be triggered to pin.  Thus being beneficial by leaving more of the substrate's nutrients to be consumed by mycelium that's been hormonally triggered to pin.





Yeah, I'm on the fence about this one. I'm not in a good enough position regarding equipment to be able to test out whether or not one actually noticeably loses yield by allowing high air exchange/gas exchange during colonization, instead of restricting air flow a bit.

My intuition tells me that it's most likely negligible, and wouldn't be noticeable in terms of yield unless one were to go through many flushes, but this is of course purely speculation.

...there's also the case of the severe change from high CO2 levels to copious fresh air being a massive pinning trigger, I suppose. :thumbup:


--------------------
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New growers, or anyone else just needing help; I'm always glad to help right here. :grin:


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OfflineJerimiahthefrog
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14194036 - 03/27/11 07:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I would like to try my own experiment and see if these techniques are
effective.

I spawned to a tub on 3/22, it has all holes taped and is under a thick blanket.

I'm about to spawn to another tub in a few hours and i will stuff it
tightly with polyfill and leave it uncovered.

this tub is slightly smaller and will use less sub/spawn.

so it isn't a perfect side by side comparison

but nonetheless i will try it and post my results.

very interested to see how this goes.

:thumbup::thumbup::mushroom2:

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14194056 - 03/27/11 07:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

faceyneck said:
Quote:

biologys said:
I stopped using bags long time ago, but always taped my holes..because of facey's and prof. P steady saying how well the tightly stuffed polyfil works, i tried it since, i cant argue with someone, when i haven't tried....needless to say, their method proved to work great for me...:shrug: everyone has their own ways of doing things..i had mine


well after trying it, i'll never tape my holes again lol





Welcome to the club of the breather's society! :rofl2:




:foshizzle:


edit: here's the counter-argument, if we can call it that...


RogerRabbit said:

You want to keep CO2 levels high during colonization for a few reasons. One reason is that colonization is slowed down somewhat in a high CO2 environment and this helps prevent the mycelium from consuming the substrate rather than colonizing it. You'll have much more of your substrate available for the fruiting stage if you keep a high CO2 level during colonization.

In addition, the CO2 drop is a major pinning trigger, thus if it's applied at the time of the other triggers such as bright light and evaporation of moisture from the substrate, you'll get a more even pinset.

It is true that providing FAE during colonization rather than simple gas exchange will speed up colonization, but it's not beneficial.
RR


--------------------
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My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: Primal Call]
    #14195321 - 03/27/11 11:12 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:themoreyouknow: :harhar:


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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: 13shrooms]
    #14195589 - 03/28/11 12:11 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Wow that was a long ass read from start to finish.  I have to post this, because its the only way I know how to track a thread.  Anyone know a way to keep an on going list of threads to keep track of?

I don't want to use bookmarks on my browser..

A few things I learned:

1. Completely seals bag during colonization BAD!
2. Light 12/12 during colonization is GOOD!
3. Polyfill stuffed in Monotub holes is NOT for keeping germs out.
4. If your bitch/shroom has a Fuzzy Fat Ass she didn't get enough fresh air.

I'm sure i'm missing a few, but i'm tired now.


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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: m_jacobs]
    #14195911 - 03/28/11 01:32 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

m_jacobs said:
Anyone know a way to keep an on going list of threads to keep track of?




just near the top of each screen, by your username, there is a "threads" link. anything you post in will be listed there.  :popcorn: works nicely for a quick marking :smile:

:peace:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: Primal Call]
    #14196248 - 03/28/11 03:46 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

or scroll all the way down to the bottom left and click on "toggle favorites" and it will be in your fav list. :thumbup:


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: Primal Call]
    #14196267 - 03/28/11 04:06 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ryath said:
Quote:

faceyneck said:
Quote:

biologys said:
I stopped using bags long time ago, but always taped my holes..because of facey's and prof. P steady saying how well the tightly stuffed polyfil works, i tried it since, i cant argue with someone, when i haven't tried....needless to say, their method proved to work great for me...:shrug: everyone has their own ways of doing things..i had mine


well after trying it, i'll never tape my holes again lol





Welcome to the club of the breather's society! :rofl2:




:foshizzle:


edit: here's the counter-argument, if we can call it that...


RogerRabbit said:

You want to keep CO2 levels high during colonization for a few reasons. One reason is that colonization is slowed down somewhat in a high CO2 environment and this helps prevent the mycelium from consuming the substrate rather than colonizing it. You'll have much more of your substrate available for the fruiting stage if you keep a high CO2 level during colonization.

In addition, the CO2 drop is a major pinning trigger, thus if it's applied at the time of the other triggers such as bright light and evaporation of moisture from the substrate, you'll get a more even pinset.

It is true that providing FAE during colonization rather than simple gas exchange will speed up colonization, but it's not beneficial.
RR




Yeah, thanks for bringing that up, although I thought it was mentioned by RR himself earlier in the thread. I don't remember, and I'm not sifting through all that emotional garbage again. :nonono:

Ah, I see this was brought up by hamloaf a couple posts ago.

This doesn't seem logical to me though. I can present a very good argument for why it is unlikely to burn up the substrate excessively without even conducting an experiment.

Okay, so, we slow down the growth of the mycelium by keeping CO2 levels high. However, as the mycelium grows slower, it now takes longer to colonize the bin.

Let's say to colonize a typical bin, 500,000 miles of dikaryons must be grown. Now, why does it make a difference if that distance is grown in 7 days or 14? Here is the crux of the issue, and here's what I hypothesize:

If this were a combustion engine, I suppose there would be a "sweet spot" where fuel consumption was at its most efficient, and we could also turn the engine off when it's not being driven. However, this is a living organism, which means that it takes energy for the organism to be inert simply to be alive. It would be like driving 500,000 miles by car, and instead of driving from point A to point B in 7 days, you drive there in 14, letting the car idle 1/2 the time. Assuming the mycelium will grow slower but more distance using less energy also assumes the mycelium will intentionally be inefficient given the opportunity.

I say this because the only other explanation would be the mycelium intentionally being inefficient at growth when given an unlimited supply of fuel.

Why the hell would the organism do that? Wouldn't it make much more sense to use the fuel to colonize the substrate in a shorter amount of time than waste energy?

I think so.

The longer it's kept alive for a given task, the more energy is being burned as waste to do the same job. This seems like evidence to the contrary of what RR has said.

If someone has a link to some legitimate scientific data on this, I'd be very interested in reading it. At the moment, it seems more likely that MORE energy is burned in colonizing a substrate in 14 days as opposed to 7.


--------------------
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread *DELETED* [Re: faceyneck]
    #14196408 - 03/28/11 06:17 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by Morelman

Reason for deletion: Never again...



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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: The Monotub Bag Colonization Thread [Re: Morelman]
    #14196600 - 03/28/11 07:45 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Morelman said:
:nonono:

Your results clearly prove the downside of AE during colonization.

  VS. 

:peace:





Nope. This was also done the same way:



My results clearly prove that I've only recently begun cultivating in bins, and therefore need more practice on pinsets to get them consistent.


--------------------
Anything posted here, is total bullshit.
My Meyers-Briggs Personality: INTJ
New growers, or anyone else just needing help; I'm always glad to help right here. :grin:


We give cultivation advice here. :super:


AMU Q & A - We're glad to help
My Doggy Door Greenhouse!          First Ever Shmuvbox Tek!          Do Manure Right!

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