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the spiral
Neuroscientist




Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 1,769
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Amanita Muscaria, Muscarine, and Ibotenic Acid
#14173936 - 03/24/11 02:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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There is a great deal of conflicting information on Amanita Muscaria floating around the internet and these boards. What I've read about muscarine's potential to evoke experiences described as euphoric, dysphoric, and everything in between, has thus far led me to avoid any contact with Amanita Muscaria. I recently did some more reading and discovered that ibotenic acid - an alkaloid found in relatively high concentrations in these Amanitas - is used as a selective and potent neurotoxin in various studies. Since, over time, I have become more open to the Amanita Muscaria experience, despite unpleasant reactions that have been reported, the information about ibotenic acid that I've come across is disturbing to say the least.
Essentially, I'm interested in hearing from individuals who have experimented with Amanita Muscaria, as well as those who have any familiarity with the degree - if any - of neurotoxicity it causes in humans following oral ingestion.
Thanks for any and all information/input!
--------------------
  "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." - Carl Sagan
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notguilty
Stranger



Registered: 01/22/11
Posts: 40
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Amanita Muscaria, Muscarine, and Ibotenic Acid [Re: the spiral]
#14173985 - 03/24/11 02:45 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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before you get too curious, you should try cubes! they're kinda like amanitas but without the dysphoria and nerve damage.
maybe we should just look at them. they're pretty and they remind me of nintendo.

Mario cautions that you might end up in a sewer with evil turtles and bobombs... not cool when you're trippin
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Amanita Muscaria, Muscarine, and Ibotenic Acid [Re: the spiral]
#14174004 - 03/24/11 03:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Amanita muscaria contains only trace amounts of muscarine, not nearly enough to be harmful. Muscarine is not responsible for psychoactive effects. Ibotenic acid is almost entirely decarboxylated into muscimol during the drying process. Muscimol is the main alkaloid responsible for the psychoactive effects. Perhaps if extremely high doses of improperly prepared A. muscaria are ingested, some neurotoxicity can occur, I'm not saying it wont. But in regular experimental or medicinal doses, those effects are not present, if anything it stimulates and regenerates the nerves. But anyway, A. muscaria is not so good as a recreational drug, either the experience is too mild and leaves the use dissapointed, or they take too much and have a hard experience, blaming the mushroom afterward. I use it mainly as a nerve tonic and dream enhancer, in the form of mild-dose tea, and toruoghly enjoy the experience and after effects. But if you just want something to get high on, there are better and more predictable substances.
EDIT:
Quote:
notguilty said: before you get too curious, you should try cubes! they're kinda like amanitas but without the dysphoria and nerve damage.
No, they are absolutely nothing like amanitas. Those two substances have nothing in common. And A. muscaria doesn't cause nerve damage, and while I've never felt dysphoria on amanitas (quite the contrary, I always feel tranquil and content), dysphoria takes at least 75% of every cubensis trip for me. Those kind of lows and emotional pain are unimaginable to someone who has never tripped.
Edited by Tangich (03/24/11 03:07 AM)
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Dave Soderberg
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Registered: 01/03/11
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Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Amanita Muscaria, Muscarine, and Ibotenic Acid [Re: Tangich]
#14174059 - 03/24/11 03:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I took a couple decent sized caps and got the negative effects.
I have heard some decent reports on the mushroom so I had to give it a try...
All that really happened was I got dizzy, sick to my stomach, and it fogged my vision. It made me rather sleepy which was nice because I just wanted the experience to end.
This was what happened to me at a higher dose. I have taken way lower doses which did calm my nerves a bit. I suppose there is a happy medium with the drug.
I enjoy mid October because they grow everywhere in my neighborhood.
Beautiful mushroom to say the least
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the spiral
Neuroscientist




Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 1,769
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: Amanita Muscaria, Muscarine, and Ibotenic Acid [Re: Dave Soderberg]
#14174072 - 03/24/11 03:38 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks for the informed input. I wasn't asking about cubes, not only due to extensive experience with them, but because my questions are about A. Muscaria.
Again, thanks especially to Tangich. I still have not decided if the A. Muscaria experience is one I'm interested in pursuing, but any and all information - from those with some experience especially and by far - is what I'm after and have found (and hope to continue to find, should this thread continue) extremely useful.
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Amanita Muscaria, Muscarine, and Ibotenic Acid [Re: the spiral]
#14175347 - 03/24/11 11:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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No problem, I always like sharing my knowledge and experience of Amanita muscaria with people who are open to it. Too often I see people talking crap about it, and that makes me sad. But the people who do that are either kids who ate 30 grams of caps ordered online for their first time expecting to trip, or people who read their reports but have never tried or even seen the mushroom themselves. Ofcourse, this mushroom isn't for everyone, but it's an ancient and magical creature, and deserves a certain respect.
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kataphrakt
Student

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 44
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: Amanita Muscaria, Muscarine, and Ibotenic Acid [Re: Tangich]
#14202967 - 03/29/11 10:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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They grow around a spillway near my apartment. I picked two huge ziplock bags full last year and took them home to dry and try. An hour after ingesting a pretty good dose (5 caps)I ran a fever and passed out. I had the most vivid Half Life 2 dream ever. Four hours later I awoke with a body buzz and it literally took me 10 minutes to confirm that I was back to reality. To this day I can still remember the dream to a T.
-------------------- No glove, no love.
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the spiral
Neuroscientist




Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 1,769
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: Amanita Muscaria, Muscarine, and Ibotenic Acid [Re: kataphrakt]
#14203475 - 03/29/11 12:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm getting the picture that those with experience would attribute the majority of the negative experiences people have with A. Muscaria are a result of dosing too high (probably in misguided attempts to 'trip' or get 'f'ed up' or whatever), and that lower doses are generally better tolerated and give better outcomes. What do those of you familiar with A. Muscaria make of that statement?
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Amanita Muscaria, Muscarine, and Ibotenic Acid [Re: the spiral]
#14203516 - 03/29/11 12:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Kinda agree. But also low doses often give no effects, especially to first-timers. So people think 'okay, 8 grams did absolutely nothing for me, now I'm gonna take 20'. Ofcourse, they get way more than they bargained for. You need to up the dose slowly, and stick to one that gives you desirable effect. If you don' like the effects, than muscaria probably isn't for you. Also, proper preparation is essential to good experience. I've found that tea works best, tough it smells and tastes vile, it completely eliminates the nausea. If you eat them whole, your stomach will not be pleased at all. And if they are not dried properly, ibotenic acid is high and some 'poisoning' effects will probably be present.
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kataphrakt
Student

Registered: 03/22/11
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Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: Amanita Muscaria, Muscarine, and Ibotenic Acid [Re: Tangich]
#14204130 - 03/29/11 02:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah I had no experience with Amanitas before trying them, but I was young and thought they couldn't be any different than cubes. How wrong I was. Still, I wouldn't mind giving them another shot under different circumstances and preparation. I would like to grow them if for no other reason than to look at.
-------------------- No glove, no love.
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Amanita Muscaria, Muscarine, and Ibotenic Acid [Re: kataphrakt]
#14204143 - 03/29/11 02:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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You can't grow them. They are mychorrhizal. You can search for them in the woods tough.
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