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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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i was using a macbook pro as an example, but i'm sure the the latest 3g ipad model w/ the most storage, applecare warranty, covers, connectors, yadda yadda would easily cost you somewhere between two to three times the price of the most basic model... and that's before you've even gotten to software.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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I am not even sure what your point, but that's not even remotely the case. Most expensive iPad is $829. Apple care is $75, the most expensive case offered from Apple is $80 (not including 3rd party) and there is a $40 HDMI connector, and hell I will throw mobile me in there for $100 (which is likely to be free soon anyway). All the accessories combined would be be $295, but even at the worst case scenario, still I fail to see how the cost of accessories is a way to judge a device.
The iPad is the most aggressively prices devices on the market right now, all the competitors are struggling to even match it, let alone beat it. Everything you are saying isn't even remotely true. Proponents of Apple dislike just them just for the sake it, and make shit up in the process. I also fail to see how the concept of selling accessories at higher margins, first or third party, is any different than any other company.
Personally, I would rather the margins be lower on the $500 device to keep the bulk cost as low as possible, and high margins are novelty accessories that can be bought over time as I need/want them, which what just about ever consumer electronics manufacture does.
Edited by daytripper05 (03/22/11 04:14 PM)
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 6 months, 25 days
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Quote:
daytripper05 said: Proponents of Apple dislike just them just for the sake it, and make shit up in the process.
See, this is the common failing of Apple fanboys.
They just can't fathom that someone doesn't like Apple for serious reasons.
Like I said, I would like an iPad, but I generally dislike Apple products. I find them unintuitive and hard to use, and the price-performance ratio is all screwed to hell. I can generally get much more PC with much less limited software that I find much easier to use for considerably less money.
Don't jump down my throat. I would like an iPad because nothing else really does what an iPad can do right now.
But Apple stuff in general? Keep it. And not "just because"...
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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from what i recall i said that the ipad was novelty apparatus for people with money to burn... this was actually in defense of the device, to which frith believes is utterly pointless. and when you challenged the idea, stating that it was $500 (as if that was chump change to begin with), i told you that many people will walk away from the apple store spending much more --- 2-3x was just a guess, but not entirely unnaccurate from what you've just stated, once they've been upsold the best model and warranty and so forth.
you got the notion i dislike apple? odd, i have few of their laptops and a couple of their desktops.... use os x every day.
anyways, fuck this conversation, eheh. enjoy your pad.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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BeverageFace
Beer Baron


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 216
Loc: ontario, canada
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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over priced, under spec'd. same old apple.
apple always puts out a product with obvious short comings and flaws, just so six months later, they can make a slight change, and sell it as next gen.
Android is taking over, has apple beat in phone market. tablets wont be far off.
for the price, a higher end netbook is a much more usefull tool.
however, most macs users are looking for pretty, not useful.
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geokills
∙∙∙∙☼ º¿° ☼∙∙∙∙


Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 23,466
Loc: city of angels
Last seen: 2 hours, 27 minutes
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
I generally dislike Apple products. I find them unintuitive and hard to use
Could this be a result of having grown up on the PC and therefore having its typical processes ingrained in your mind? Lacking the intimate familiarity with Apple products? I will grant that the PC does often offer the user more ability to tweak things to their personal liking; however, looking at Apple vs PC strictly from the standpoint of which is more intuitive, I think Apple wins the contest hands down. Their devices are simple, stable, integrated, uncluttered and to the point. Perhaps not as flexible, but that's not the argument I'm making. Just ask someone who has never used a computer to try both out, and I'd bet Apple comes out as preferred in the vast majority of cases.
I know for a fact that my father who has been entirely computer illiterate (and to whom I spent several hours over the course of many weeks years ago attempting to tutor on a PC's basic functions without avail), has been able to pick up the Apple iPhone and make use of nearly all of its features. The fact of the matter is, Apple is very good at what it does, which is creating simple, effective, and stylish consumer electronic products.
Just because I still use a PC for my main workhorse, does not mean I won't respect Apple for the leadership position it has taken in mobile hardware, and the real genius behind its iTunes distribution format. Google is playing catch-up, and perhaps the open source nature of their platform will help them overtake Apple. But Apple literally has tens of billions of dollars in cash and is committing some of their largest capital amounts to R&D this year. I wouldn't count 'em down and out, far from it.
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-------------------- ┼ ··∙ long live the shroomery ∙·· ┼ ...╬π╥ ╥π╬...
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 6 months, 25 days
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Quote:
geokills said:
Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
I generally dislike Apple products. I find them unintuitive and hard to use
Could this be a result of having grown up on the PC and therefore having its typical processes ingrained in your mind?
This is undoubtedly why I feel the way I do.
I was taught to use PCs throughout high school, we always had PCs in the house, and I never really had any exposure to Macs until I got to college.
I think I said in my original post here that we have Macs in my departments computer lab, but I really don't use them for much. I've used them on occasion when the other computers were in use, or in the rare event that there was some kind of strange small-batch geological software that only worked on the Macs. But undoubtedly my lack of familiarity with them is what makes them hard to use.
I'm sure people who grew up with Macs think PC-interface architecture doesn't make much sense also.
Again, I don't hate Apple stuff. I have an iPod, although I don't use it much because my newer phone has the same functionality. And I really would like an ipad, because I don't want to carry around a laptop everywhere but would love the multimedia and gaming functionality of a tablet. I've used ipads plenty of times in the Apple store, and have messed around with those of friends before, and I enjoy them.
I just run into problems when using Mac computers and the OSs. Not that I can't use them, I'm pretty computer savvy and I can, but it's not easy. Buttons don't do what I think they do, menus don't contain what I'm looking for, the taskbar is generally unscrutable for me.
It's all stuff that I could learn, I'm sure, if I needed to. But just intuitively, I don't understand them.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Chespirito
Stranger



Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,259
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Personally I agree that OSX is not intuitive. I grew up with PC's but I also use Gnome / KDE(which I dont like) and even other desktop environments such as Enlightenment. For some reason OSX just doesnt jibe with me, but it does for a lot of people so The iPad is pretty intuitive though and a pretty great piece of hardware. Hell the graphics performance of the iPad2 is several times better than Nvidias Tegra 2 nonsense they keep claiming is worth caring about.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 6 months, 25 days
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Right, the ipad makes perfect sense to me.
I can use it easily.
I have an Android phone, and honestly, despite what all the fanboys of either say, they are both pretty freaking similar.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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BeverageFace
Beer Baron


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 216
Loc: ontario, canada
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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the problem with apple, is the lock you into their system. with itunes, with their software, with their hardware.
You want to upgrade? if you even can, be prepared to pay way more than you would a pc. Something goes in your iphone, even a battery, be prepared to shell out big to get it repaired.
They market a product well, that is what they do. they dont create an exceptional product, especially not at their pricepoint.
They have had so many design faults over the years, from overheating, to battery issues, to antenna problems.
Any other sane person would ditch a brand that has the mistakes they have, but people get locked in.
Needing to buy a case so that your phone wont drop calls from holding it? come on.
Do they care if their product dies in a year? no. they know people will just replace it with gen X or gen Xs.
Every week i get at least one person talking about how they just lost all of their music on itunes.
Do you honestly think apple cares about any of these problems? not really. they make their product owners feel stupid to own non-mac products. which is the sum of all their commercials.
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Quote:
BeverageFace said: they dont create an exceptional product, especially not at their pricepoint.
Apple is notable a premium product, thus priced high. But the iPad is the lowest priced tablet on market when you add up everything you get for an entry point of $500. No other tablet is even close at this point. The iPad is the definition of an exceptional product, every other company is scrambling to figure it out and get a piece of the pie. Honestly the only that will be a mainstream competitor isn't even out yet, which is the Blackberry Playbook which is priced at $499 but the screen is only 7", half the size. Virtually every reviewer agrees this is best consumers product to come out in 2010 and 2011 with a modest range of pricing.
I'm not going to bother responding to the other stuff which isn't true because there is no point
Edited by daytripper05 (03/23/11 05:31 PM)
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