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Offlinebik123
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Nitrogen Supplement
    #14168973 - 03/23/11 09:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Curiously, ive been thinking if this works. Perhaps someone out there has done it or is using this method?

Instead of using grain spawn (ex-corn) to inoculate the blocks, would it be possible to use powdered corn and mix with all the ingredients and autoclave it. And then once cooled, just add directly a colonized agar cut into wedges.

In that way, the powdered corn can be absorbed rapidly, as the mycelium from the Agar wedges colonizes the block. And contamination is highly reduced as compared when using grain.

Any pros and cons


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InvisibleMonkeyKnifeFight
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Re: Nitrogen Supplement [Re: bik123]
    #14169140 - 03/23/11 10:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't understand do you mean just add agar to a full block of substrate?  That may work but it's not going to be ideal since it will be really slow giving contams time to get started.

I'm also not sure what you mean when you say the contamination would be reduced over using grain.  If you have a jar of fully colonized grain spawn and you spawn to a bag of sterile substrate in clean conditions you will never get contams.  If you spawn in less than clean conditions then you will get contams no matter what mixture you're using.

I've never used corn but rye grain has some considerable advantages over ground flour.  The outside surface of the grain itself provides some barrier to contamination.  Also if properly prepared you can easily shake the spawn which greatly speeds up colonization times.  I guess it depends on your exact methods but I've never seen much reason to try to innovate on growing out spawn on rye grain.


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Offlinesolumvita
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Re: Nitrogen Supplement [Re: bik123]
    #14169143 - 03/23/11 10:26 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

you van do that, one of the cons though is an increased contamination rate.


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Offlinebik123
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Re: Nitrogen Supplement [Re: solumvita]
    #14172673 - 03/23/11 09:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well yes, adding a colonized agar directly to a sterile substrate. And it has worked for a few of my substrate, and im not sure the otehr contaminations actually came from the grain spawn itself, though i do not rule other parameters as there are plenty that could go wrong along each step! Perhaps, adding agar directly IS the culprit for my blocks contaminating.

And rather than the whole grain itself, dont u think a powdered grain will be better as its surface area is tiny and sterilizing it will mean the endospores will 100% be destroyed as compared to some whole grains, it might survive?

And is rye better than wheat grain for using as spawn, in terms of contamination rate?


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OfflineNSF
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Re: Nitrogen Supplement [Re: bik123]
    #14173407 - 03/23/11 11:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think rye vs wheat will have an impact on contams. Just water absorbtion, cooking times etc.

You cad add nitrogen with pea hulls or lucerne dust, lots of things really. 

But as someone else said, if there's no contam in your grain grow then you should not have contam in your substrate if you sterilise and transfer in aseptic conditions.  I don't think agar will speed along the process.


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OfflineBlueLightRain
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Re: Nitrogen Supplement [Re: bik123]
    #14173921 - 03/24/11 02:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bik123 said:
Perhaps, adding agar directly IS the culprit for my blocks contaminating.



Not necessarily. You have to do several tests to isolate your contamination vector. For instance, if you want to know if your substrate is what is producing contaminants, sterilize one block of your substrate just like you would prepare for inoculation. Never open the sterilized substrate though, never inoculate it with anything. Watch it every week or so and see if and how long contaminants take to develop.

If contaminants never develop you know its not your substrate. Take a second block and open it up in your laboratory (glove box/flowhood) as if you were going to inoculate it. Don't add anything. Close it up normally then watch it as above.

Quote:

bik123 said:
And rather than the whole grain itself, dont u think a powdered grain will be better as its surface area is tiny and sterilizing it will mean the endospores will 100% be destroyed as compared to some whole grains, it might survive?



You might be right in this assumption and it's best to do some tests as stated above. If you're working with a fast-colonizing fungus (oyster for instance) you could take the easiest route and sterilize the dry grain with the right proportion of water. Not the best way but it will work. Or you can add dry grain to 180F water, wait an hour, strain for a few hours, then sterilize. Works even better. For slow colonizing fungus, soak for one day, bring up to temperature until grain is puffed, strain for a few hours, then sterilize. This is your best bet because endospores can germinate. You can smell it when you empty the grain the next day.

Quote:

bik123 said:
And is rye better than wheat grain for using as spawn, in terms of contamination rate?



I've used organic rye in the past and I now use 100% "recleaned wheat" from feed stores. It works just as well as the rye and is 1/6th the price. Haven't had issues with contaminants when everything is prepared and handled properly - no difference with rye. If you consider grain spawn as a "jump off point" for larger substrates then the difference between rye and wheat nutrition is practically insignificant.


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Offlineshroom-jitsu
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Re: Nitrogen Supplement [Re: BlueLightRain]
    #14174549 - 03/24/11 08:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Coffee grounds.  Your myc will love you for it. :smile:


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Offlinebik123
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Re: Nitrogen Supplement [Re: shroom-jitsu]
    #14174717 - 03/24/11 09:03 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, i shall do some exp to see where the contamination problem lies.

Thanks!


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