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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Wrong
#14166615 - 03/22/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I would say the number one fault with us posters here and by extension with humans in general is our inability to admit that we are wrong. It's quite rare here for someone to really come out and admit that they were wrong about anything. Even trivial things. I'm not in any way excluding myself here. I really don't see how humanity will ever resolve it's differences if we can't easily learn to say "I'm wrong here". And if we can't even do it here how can we expect countries to do it and prevent needless and ongoing wars. How can we proclaim we are on the verge of a revolution in consciousness when we here have such a hard time with this seemingly simple task?
Becker has an interesting take on this. I'm wondering if any of those who have read the book remember it? It's actually pretty central to his ideas on death anxiety.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Shroomerette
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I always admit I'm wrong when I'm wrong.
It's a good thing I'm always right .
just kidding, I'm wrong sometimes
-------------------- Leaving the shroomery forever
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Thanks for that quick demonstration of what I'm talking about. 
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Shroomerette
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I think it's because there are too many men on shroomery and leading countries. Women are more practical about these things.
-------------------- Leaving the shroomery forever
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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My girlfriends were never wrong. In my experience they have a very hard time too.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Well I think humans have gotten themselves way too deep in a system that is so complex we are incapable of sustaining it. There's so much shit going on in the cultural make up we just can't handle it. It's like layers have just built up over time and unpicking all the knots is just an insane task now.
It's funny I don't like to admit I'm wrong in the middle of a debate but very often I'll think about it later and realize I was being stupid as pig shit.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Well if that's true we got there cause we couldn't admit we were wrong about anything.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Quote:
Icelander said: Well if that's true we got there cause we couldn't admit we were wrong about everything. 
Fixed.
Quote:

-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Ive seen you admit you were wrong.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Quote:
I really don't see how humanity will ever resolve it's differences...
That's only because you have not yet done enough LSD.
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durantz
Stranger



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Yeah Icelander I agree with you!
It seems like people here just want to argue and ignore other people's comments.
I actually use this forum to learn as much as I can. So I do give credit where credit is due.
The chances of all of us being right 100% of the time are very slim (not saying it's impossible).
So if noone wants to admit to being wrong then something is wrong with this picture...
But there is a problem with this idea of 'right' and 'wrong' because noone actually knows what 'right' is!! So there may be a perfectly logical or intuitive way to reach the conclusions that everyone on this board has. So unless you are able to communicate in the other persons language (thought patterns) then you are not going to be able to show them the error of their ways...
but then you have the problem of once you do have access to their thought patterns you may see how they are 'right' and you are 'wrong'!!
so unless we can all agree on what method to use to determine what right or wrong is, then there is no way we can actually prove the correctness of someone elses argument.
so perhaps what we should do here on our forum is begin a project to define how we are going to decide what 'right' is, then describe a process for measuring the 'rightness' of an argument.
We would then need to post this in the rules section and if anyone does not follow it then they get banned from the forum.
hehe I'm sure you can see how badly this will turn out
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Quote:
It seems like people here just want to argue
Please elaborate on how to debate without arguing.
This should be good.
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durantz
Stranger



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lol are you trying to trap me into an argument?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Quote:
but then you have the problem of once you do have access to their thought patterns you may see how they are 'right' and you are 'wrong'!!
'Right' may not always be definable or known, but quite often, 'wrong' can definitely be known - and without getting into another's head.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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There is no trap. I asked a straight-forward question to help illustrate your ignorance.
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Revolutionst
Truth Seeker

Registered: 03/07/11
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This subject is something I run into often, mostly while discussing religious beliefs. You guys know how that is, haha. Everyone says they've got "the truth". So many variations of that, isn't there?
"So unless you are able to communicate in the other persons language (thought patterns) then you are not going to be able to show them the error of their ways...
but then you have the problem of once you do have access to their thought patterns you may see how they are 'right' and you are 'wrong'!!"
This is so true. I like the way you said it. This is something that I find hard to articulate, concisely. Everyone has different perspectives, view points, due to their unique life experiences, emotions, genetics.... a crude example is like everyone wearing different, uniquely colored sunglasses perceiving everything differently.
I think due to this, one person may believe something is right, while another thinks it is wrong. Take for example, weed. Maybe your friend had a terrible childhood with an abusive father who did horrible things to his family, and he also smoked weed.
On the other hand, take for example a different friend. His father brought home the bread daily, loved his family, trained and taught his children to be honest, compassionate, hard workers, intelligent, inquisitive, and so on.
Which child will perceive weed to be wrong, and which will think it permissible - maybe even beneficial? Another crude example, but you guys get my point I hope. =]
-------------------- "Estranged, bastard I am Never had the reasons why God has taken me in Healed my wounds, loved me in my sin" -Living Sacrifice
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Revolutionst
Truth Seeker

Registered: 03/07/11
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
but then you have the problem of once you do have access to their thought patterns you may see how they are 'right' and you are 'wrong'!!
'Right' may not always be definable or known, but quite often, 'wrong' can definitely be known - and without getting into another's head.
I will bite. =P
When you say 'wrong' can definitely be known, what are you basing right and wrong off of? Society's social rules? Personal morality? A book? The conscious we all have, which some have seared?
I suppose you could say murdering an innocent person is wrong, I would agree. There are fanatical Muslims who would disagree. Then again, I'm sure they don't think those they kill are actually innocent. Point is, there will always be two sides to the coin, always someone out there who will disagree with ya. Always gonna someone who thinks right is wrong is wrong is right, no matter what is being discussed. Ya feel me, man?
Much love. Sorry for the double post, still learning the way these forums work. O_x
Edited by Revolutionst (03/22/11 10:53 PM)
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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ralph waldo emerson, self reliance, been there done that
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Blondell_Letrange
No other.



Registered: 11/08/10
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Just to clarify:
Are you referring to people that think they are right, but are actually wrong...Or people that know they are wrong and are too stubborn to admit it?
If it is the former, if you are unaware of how you are wrong, how can you admit it?
If it is the latter, then I would say that I guess generally speaking this has relative truth, but on several occassions I have noted people apologising, and or conceding to errors in their own posts.
It seems mostly related to misunderstandings
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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No, I was not talking about morality which is merely opinion. "Right is what I do; wrong is what you do!"
If a belief system is internally contradictory or inconsistent, then it cannot possible be true.
If 10,000 religions all claim something different, then we can be 100% certain that at least 9,999 of them are wrong - and probably 100%.
Let's take the whole karma/reincarnation nonsense. Were there 'good' bacteria and 'bad' bacteria 500,000,000 years ago? Or were there just bacteria? If one bacterium was not more morally superior or spiritual than another, then karmically they cannot come back as a multi-celled critter.
Another solid indicator of wrongness is a total lack of methodology to determine some claim or an inability to explain how one came to a certain conclusion. There are 7,9 and 13 chakras depending on whom you talk to. (Refere back the mutual exclusion principle I talked about earlier).Yet they cannot tell you how they came to that number; and when backed into a logical corner, will change their story amdnd mumble something about it being metaphorical.
Yes, there are many things that can be determined to be 100% wrong.
There are many ways to determine wrongness. Rightness is more elusive. Let's say we take the best chess player in the world, be it human or computer. Can we say that his/its strategy is the best possible? No. But we can determine that it is better than the other 6.5 billion people; therefore it more closely approaches the 'right' strategy than any known.
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