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Invisible1minutehasgoneby
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Icelander]
    #14163953 - 03/22/11 10:54 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The master has to do a GREAT deal and have some crazy respect to earn the title "Master." And who doesn't want freedom to do whatever they want or hear what they want to hear? When you're in a presence of a true master you will know and respect them. If you want what they have you will hear what they have to say. They may give you some weird teachings and you may not agree at first but the more you learn from them the pieces of the puzzle will all come together forming the picture...

On the other hand, the simple teachings of Jesus was just turned into a tool used to control the masses.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: 1minutehasgoneby]
    #14163968 - 03/22/11 11:01 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

1minutehasgoneby said:
On the other hand, the simple teachings of Jesus was just turned into a tool used to control the masses.


The fuck is the difference between this, and the teachings of "masters" and/or "gurus"? :ghandi:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: 1minutehasgoneby]
    #14164201 - 03/22/11 11:54 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

1minutehasgoneby said:
The master has to do a GREAT deal and have some crazy respect to earn the title "Master." And who doesn't want freedom to do whatever they want or hear what they want to hear? When you're in a presence of a true master you will know and respect them. If you want what they have you will hear what they have to say. They may give you some weird teachings and you may not agree at first but the more you learn from them the pieces of the puzzle will all come together forming the picture...

On the other hand, the simple teachings of Jesus was just turned into a tool used to control the masses.





And how many true masters have you been in the presence of?  Who were they?

And those folk who drank the poison "knew" they were in the presence of a true messenger of god. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: ahchela]
    #14164608 - 03/22/11 01:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ahchela said:
In my time I've studied, practiced and believed in a few different religions. Most notably Buddhism and different paths of Hinduism.

I've found that I agree with a lot of different concepts which formulate these two religions. However I do not agree with the concept of a "Master" or "Guru". One needs mentors when they're first starting out and information to get them started, but not authoritarian figures.
No one has a hold over truth, and there are no holy books.
Only collections of writing and poems.

Most importantly, the path within is the path within, not into someone else's idea of truth - but the truth inside.

:peace:




So you don't believe anything that doesn't agree with your personal experience? If you had an annual physical and a doctor told you that you had a problem in the early stages of manifestation and early action will be a huge benefit, but you felt fine, who would you listen to? Your experience of being OK, or would you listen to the doctor and take early action?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Onlinedeff
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Icelander]
    #14164616 - 03/22/11 01:24 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

in vajrayana buddhism, one is encouraged to spend up to 12 years inspecting a potential teacher before they accept them as their guru - it's not taken lightly

for vajrayana buddhism, a guru is an absolute necessity though, the whole vehicle is based around guru devotion and you need to receive blessings to partake in advanced practices

the guru issue is a touchy issue because there's certainly a fair share of 'fake gurus' out there who kind of make such relationships seem questionable. it's pretty easy to spot out which ones are just feeding their egos i think (though somehow they still find students)

i think when one advances on the path though, having a teacher, an embodiment of the wisdom-mind, who is on a vantage point and able to see your hang-ups, is indispensible. you might be able to solve a problem on your own over years that a relationship with an authentic guru could have been solved in a single encounter :shrug:


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: deff]
    #14164648 - 03/22/11 01:30 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I can't see how spending twelve year inspecting an animal is going to get you anywhere. Just sounds like a waste of time and an indulgence in self importance to me.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Onlinedeff
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14164764 - 03/22/11 01:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

in vajaryana buddhism, the guru plays a very very prominent role, so you want to ensure you choose a guru that's fully capable - though twelve years seems excessive to me too, but this is i think to highlight how important it is to choose wisely :shrug:


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14164976 - 03/22/11 02:34 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I can't see how spending twelve year inspecting an animal is going to get you anywhere.
:rofl2::thumbup:

Keeps ya hooked though doesn't it?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblep4kSouL
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: deff]
    #14164980 - 03/22/11 02:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

There's a difference between "Cult leader" & "Master".

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: p4kSouL]
    #14164982 - 03/22/11 02:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Explain?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMuufokfok
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: deff]
    #14164986 - 03/22/11 02:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

ill be glad to tell all of you that you are overanalyzing the whole concept of master and spiritual teacher.

master and guru is completely subjective. to accept someone as your spiritual teacher or being a samurai and taking on someone as your master you learn a great deal from them and can eventually surpass them if they are true to their art and both have a respect of eachother.

you guys have this notion like there's a loss of freedom or that you are only taking information from this one entity.

yes theyre are frauds and yes some teachers are delusional, but thats for your heart to decide whos right and whos wrong, it is your own fault if your heart leads you down a bad path. but how does one climb a mountain he hath not scaled yet?
you go on a whim, or find someone whose already climbed the mountain?


--------------------
"I'm guessing the 'ancient lost drug' of india is psychedelic mushrooms. The correlation between sacred cows (in hinduism) and magic mushrooms growing on cow dung is too strong to ignore, if you ask me."

As the ocean waves, the universe "peoples"
~Alan Watts~

Edited by Muufokfok (03/22/11 02:39 PM)

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Invisiblep4kSouL
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Icelander]
    #14164993 - 03/22/11 02:39 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Masters have "mastered" the energy body & enlightenment, cult leaders are addicted to followers. Cult leaders create dogma, not liberation.

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OfflineMuufokfok
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: p4kSouL]
    #14164996 - 03/22/11 02:39 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

p4kSouL said:
Masters have "mastered" the energy body & enlightenment, cult leaders are addicted to followers. Cult leaders create dogma, not liberation.



this :strokebeard2::congrats:


--------------------
"I'm guessing the 'ancient lost drug' of india is psychedelic mushrooms. The correlation between sacred cows (in hinduism) and magic mushrooms growing on cow dung is too strong to ignore, if you ask me."

As the ocean waves, the universe "peoples"
~Alan Watts~

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Offlinethe bizzle
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Muufokfok]
    #14165030 - 03/22/11 02:46 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I know now that the humbleness of a warrior is not the humbleness of a beggar.

The warrior lowers his head to no one, but at the same time, he doesn't permit anyone to lower his head to him.

The beggar, on the other hand, falls to his knees at the drop of a hat and scrapes the floor for anyone he deems to be higher;
but at the same time, he demands that someone lower than him scrape the floor for him.

"That's why I told you earlier today that I didn't understand what masters felt like.
I know only the humbleness of a warrior, and that will never permit me to be anyone's master."




--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: p4kSouL]
    #14165040 - 03/22/11 02:48 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

p4kSouL said:
Masters have "mastered" the energy body & enlightenment, cult leaders are addicted to followers. Cult leaders create dogma, not liberation.




Who has done this that you have personal experience with? And if you don't have personal experience how do you know it's for real?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: the bizzle]
    #14165045 - 03/22/11 02:49 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

the bizzle said:
Quote:

I know now that the humbleness of a warrior is not the humbleness of a beggar.

The warrior lowers his head to no one, but at the same time, he doesn't permit anyone to lower his head to him.

The beggar, on the other hand, falls to his knees at the drop of a hat and scrapes the floor for anyone he deems to be higher;
but at the same time, he demands that someone lower than him scrape the floor for him.

"That's why I told you earlier today that I didn't understand what masters felt like.
I know only the humbleness of a warrior, and that will never permit me to be anyone's master."








One of the many stunning quotes from CC.
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinethe bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Icelander]
    #14165050 - 03/22/11 02:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

LOL

exactly.

edit: replying to your first post, about experiencing


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID


Edited by the bizzle (03/22/11 02:51 PM)

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OfflineMuufokfok
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: the bizzle]
    #14165066 - 03/22/11 02:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

im glad you can be proud of being a warrior, and the path of honor and being a warrior is awesome.

but people misinterpret the whole master thing, almost all samurai and spiritualists have some type of master or even book that they can consider a master. it doesnt have to be called master it can be a "higher source of knowledge"

but the way some are perceiving it in this thread is to take nothin from no one, but then how do you learn anything, is it all truly from within? how does one obtain manners and morals?

maybe its just the way I am taking it.
maybe we should just change the word master.


Rinpoche


--------------------
"I'm guessing the 'ancient lost drug' of india is psychedelic mushrooms. The correlation between sacred cows (in hinduism) and magic mushrooms growing on cow dung is too strong to ignore, if you ask me."

As the ocean waves, the universe "peoples"
~Alan Watts~

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Muufokfok]
    #14165115 - 03/22/11 03:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If you think someone else has a higher source of knowledge you are missing the point IMO. The best a spiritual teacher can do is point a way to a road map to get your own understanding down.

"I only really have one teaching, if you ever have any questions
Sit down
Shut up
And ask yourself what's true until you know"
~Jed Mckenna

"You have to touch life at a point where nobody has touched it before.Nobody can teach you that.

Anything I do to help would only add to your misery--that is all. By continuing to listen to me you merely heap one more misery upon those you already have."
~UG Krishnamurti


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Muufokfok]
    #14165129 - 03/22/11 03:04 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BoxyBrown said:
im glad you can be proud of being a warrior, and the path of honor and being a warrior is awesome.

but people misinterpret the whole master thing, almost all samurai and spiritualists have some type of master or even book that they can consider a master. it doesnt have to be called master it can be a "higher source of knowledge"

but the way some are perceiving it in this thread is to take nothin from no one, but then how do you learn anything, is it all truly from within? how does one obtain manners and morals?

maybe its just the way I am taking it.
maybe we should just change the word master.


Rinpoche





I can learn from anyone I choose.  They don't need to be called a Master to have the info I need to gain skill. Then I need to personalize it through experience.  For instance I never had to call my Martial Arts Instructor, Master.  He wouldn't hear of it. Yet by studying with him for several years as a teacher and friend I myself became an Instructor and taught  in Seattle.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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