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Offlineimachavel
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does anyone know obama's rep as a senator?
    #14164938 - 03/22/11 02:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i didn't want to make a whole new thread about this, but i know how much people hate it when you bump a 3 month old thread to find the topic you were looking for, so just thought i'd make a brand new thread about all of this:

what was obama's standards as a senator? was he a good senator or a really fucked up senator? does he have a rep of being just so fucked up?


i could say the same of bush. when people started wondering why george bush was fucking up so much as a president, they looked at his history, and realized there was nothing he touched that he didn't fuck up. he even ran some of his dads hundred million dollar businesses into the ground, but at least managed to keep haliburton intact :wink: :smirk:



oh well... discuss if you wish!


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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Invisiblejebustrist
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: imachavel]
    #14164957 - 03/22/11 02:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm pretty sure people realized all of this stuff about Bush in the primaries, but boy he just looked like the kinda guy you would really like to share a beer with!  Obama was the same kind of compromising corporate stooge in the senate that he has been in the presidency.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: jebustrist]
    #14165329 - 03/22/11 03:36 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jebustrist said:
I'm pretty sure people realized all of this stuff about Bush in the primaries, but boy he just looked like the kinda guy you would really like to share a beer with!  Obama was the same kind of compromising corporate stooge in the senate that he has been in the presidency.



Really?  My, we are quite full of whoppers today.  Obama was the most liberal Senator, when he deigned to actually vote.


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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: jebustrist]
    #14165515 - 03/22/11 04:19 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I thought Halliburton was Cheney's baby not bushes.

Anyway, I've not actually seen his voting record but many of the social critics on the left warned before the election that his voting record was somewhat hawkish and clearly right of centre. I could find some of these publications if your seriously interested in reading some.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14165915 - 03/22/11 05:25 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
  Obama was the most liberal Senator, when he deigned to actually vote.





seems that when he wasnt voting present he was voting to strengthen the
patriot act or voting on anything that would benefit minorities

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14171305 - 03/23/11 04:51 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

ok i should have made this thread about bush AND obama


can you show me their voting records for both of like you were saying?


in what way was obama liberal btw? not trying to say that's too vague or general, for most people it isn't. but for me could you be more specific? thanks


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14171453 - 03/23/11 05:16 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...or voting on anything that would benefit minorities


And that is a bad thing, why? :confused:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: Poid]
    #14171559 - 03/23/11 05:37 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Because it comes at the detriment of the majority?


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14171929 - 03/23/11 06:46 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, I guess the idea that minority groups should have fair representation is a bit too radical, isn't it? :ednorton:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: imachavel]
    #14171936 - 03/23/11 06:47 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
ok i should have made this thread about bush AND obama

can you show me their voting records for both of like you were saying?





bush didnt have a voting record, he wasnt a rep or a senator

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14171967 - 03/23/11 06:52 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

He was a gov. He passed laws. He has a voting record. How ever, yes they would not be compatible for easy comparison.

Also, pris what do you have against gays and coloured folk?


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: Poid]
    #14172061 - 03/23/11 07:07 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...or voting on anything that would benefit minorities


And that is a bad thing, why? :confused:





is he looking out for the majority of his constituents or is he looking out
for special interest groups, do minorities need more entitlements than they
have already? why does there need to be additional sex ed for black girls
instead of all girls or in reality, all student


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14172067 - 03/23/11 07:09 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
He was a gov. He passed laws. He has a voting record. How ever, yes they would not be compatible for easy comparison.




in that case Barack Obama voted with george bush 93% of the time

Quote:

Also, pris what do you have against gays and coloured folk?




my penis

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14173109 - 03/23/11 10:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...or voting on anything that would benefit minorities


And that is a bad thing, why? :confused:





is he looking out for the majority of his constituents or is he looking out
for special interest groups, do minorities need more entitlements than they
have already?


I don't know, how many entitlements do you currently have? Wouldn't a large portion of his constituents be minorities?


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
why does there need to be additional sex ed for black girls
instead of all girls or in reality, all student



I don't know, WTF does that have to do with minorities being represented fairly by politicians, though?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: Poid]
    #14174783 - 03/24/11 09:24 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Yeah, I guess the idea that minority groups should have fair representation is a bit too radical, isn't it? :ednorton:



Individuals should have representation, not grievance groups, Komrade.  Keep chopping the country up into small identity groups instead of just America.  That's always been a recipe for harmony <sarc>.  No racial group should receive any preferences from the People's government for anything ever.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: Poid]
    #14174787 - 03/24/11 09:26 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:

I don't know, WTF does that have to do with minorities being represented fairly by politicians, though?




How the fuck do race based preferences constitute fairness?


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14174807 - 03/24/11 09:34 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Yeah, I guess the idea that minority groups should have fair representation is a bit too radical, isn't it? :ednorton:



Individuals should have representation...


I agree, but this is obviously not the reality we live in. We are tribal creatures, and we get together in groups--how on Earth would it be even feasibly possible for the government to represent every single individual? It's not in the least bit practical, this is why groups are represented; since this is the case, every group should have fair representation.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Keep chopping the country up into small identity groups instead of just America.


I'm not doing shit, humans are doing it themselves--this is human nature, you should be old enough to recognize it.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
That's always been a recipe for harmony <sarc>.


There has never been harmony amongst humans, and there likely never will be--people separate themselves into groups because they don't easily harmonize with others that don't belong in their group. To ignore this exceedingly obvious fact when making any sort of legislative decision would be fucking retarded politically correct pansy-ass bullshit.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
No racial group should receive any preferences from the People's government for anything ever.


Preference, who said this? Representation is preference?


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Poid said:

I don't know, WTF does that have to do with minorities being represented fairly by politicians, though?




How the fuck do race based preferences constitute fairness?


Preference, who said this? Representation is preference?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: Poid]
    #14175207 - 03/24/11 11:17 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Yeah, I guess the idea that minority groups should have fair representation is a bit too radical, isn't it? :ednorton:



Individuals should have representation...


I agree, but this is obviously not the reality we live in. We are tribal creatures, and we get together in groups--how on Earth would it be even feasibly possible for the government to represent every single individual? It's not in the least bit practical, this is why groups are represented; since this is the case, every group should have fair representation.




Every group has representation through the representation afforded to every single citizen.  Being a member of a group does not make you special.  Why should people who eschew group identity be disadvantaged in the political process?
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Keep chopping the country up into small identity groups instead of just America.


I'm not doing shit, humans are doing it themselves--this is human nature, you should be old enough to recognize it.




You are participating in the politics of group identity, which is divisive.
Quote:

 


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
That's always been a recipe for harmony <sarc>.


There has never been harmony amongst humans, and there likely never will be--people separate themselves into groups because they don't easily harmonize with others that don't belong in their group. To ignore this exceedingly obvious fact when making any sort of legislative decision would be fucking retarded politically correct pansy-ass bullshit.




There is either more or less harmony.  Group identification contributes to lessening of general harmony.  And no it isn't retarded nor politically correct.  In fact, the PC crowd are participants themselves in the grievance mongering that comes out of group identity politics.
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
No racial group should receive any preferences from the People's government for anything ever.


Preference, who said this? Representation is preference?




I believe that was the exact point of my original post in this matter.  Perhaps you should recheck it.
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Poid said:

I don't know, WTF does that have to do with minorities being represented fairly by politicians, though?




How the fuck do race based preferences constitute fairness?


Preference, who said this? Representation is preference?




Nope.  Extra representation because of group membership is.  Every of age citizen in this country is granted by the Constitution one vote.  That includes minorities.  Affording minorities a special status, as you are doing by declaring they need special group consideration, is preferential.


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Invisiblejebustrist
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14175238 - 03/24/11 11:22 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Suffice to say anyone who honestly thinks african-americans are on an equal footing with white americans is living in a dream world.

Edited by jebustrist (03/24/11 11:23 AM)

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: jebustrist]
    #14175263 - 03/24/11 11:28 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jebustrist said:
Suffice to say anyone who honestly thinks african-americans are on an equal footing with white americans is living in a dream world.




Just saying it doesn't make it so.  In my experience, it is far from true.  I work in academia, and there black americans have an institutionally mandated leg up on white americans.  Black americans are among the most idolized and emulated people in the world.

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Invisiblejebustrist
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14175287 - 03/24/11 11:35 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Unemployment rate is double in blacks, prison population, sentencing, etc.  Most americans exhibit a slight pro-black bias in controlled tests(even black people).  Again anyone that denies all of these well-documented facts is simply not accepting reality.

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: jebustrist]
    #14175329 - 03/24/11 11:43 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Those documented facts do not support your claim.  For one, you are using white americans metric's for success to judge black americans.  Different cultures have different goals and different metrics for success.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: jebustrist]
    #14175342 - 03/24/11 11:45 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jebustrist said:
Suffice to say anyone who honestly thinks african-americans are on an equal footing with white americans is living in a dream world.



The only equal footing that matters is in law.  In current law they are preferred.


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Invisiblejebustrist
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14175414 - 03/24/11 12:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Are you seriously trying to say that there are no racial disparities in the criminal justice system?  :laugh2:  :laugh2:  :laugh2: I have some land in florida I'd like to sell you.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: jebustrist]
    #14175459 - 03/24/11 12:08 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jebustrist said:
Are you seriously trying to say that there are no racial disparities in the criminal justice system?  :laugh2:  :laugh2:  :laugh2: I have some land in florida I'd like to sell you.



Of course there are.  Negroes commit by far a disproportionate amount of the crime, especially murder and especially against other Negroes. 

Criminal justice isn't the only branch of law.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14175580 - 03/24/11 12:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Yeah, I guess the idea that minority groups should have fair representation is a bit too radical, isn't it? :ednorton:



Individuals should have representation...


I agree, but this is obviously not the reality we live in. We are tribal creatures, and we get together in groups--how on Earth would it be even feasibly possible for the government to represent every single individual? It's not in the least bit practical, this is why groups are represented; since this is the case, every group should have fair representation.




Every group has representation through the representation afforded to every single citizen.


Every member of a group may have representation in the government, but to say every group does is ridiculous.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Being a member of a group does not make you special.  Why should people who eschew group identity be disadvantaged in the political process?


Um, everybody is a part of a group (even if they eschew group identity), and everybody who is disadvantaged by any act of legislation is being disadvantaged by a group (be it Republicans, Democrats, Independents, etc.).

Why should people who eschew group identity be immune to being disadvantaged by the political process? What's so special about this particular group of people? :rofl:


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You are participating in the politics of group identity, which is divisive.


All politics is divisive by nature.

Tending to cause disagreement or hostility between people.


Since politics is simply (as you've put it so many times) conflict resolution, disagreement will necessarily be involved, and hostility is to be expected.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There is either more or less harmony.  Group identification contributes to lessening of general harmony.


Not necessarily--groups are not by definition necessarily opposed to each other.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And no it isn't retarded nor politically correct.  In fact, the PC crowd are participants themselves in the grievance mongering that comes out of group identity politics.


You don't think that denying the reality of the current state of human affairs is being PC? That's all PC is, bullshitting about the truth so you don't offend anybody. The truth is that humans are tribal in nature, and will separate themselves into groups because they don't easily harmonize with others that don't belong in their group; if you deny this, and/or do not want politics to acknowledge and consider it when drafting any legislation, you are supporting PCness.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Preference, who said this? Representation is preference?



Nope.  Extra representation because of group membership is.


Extra? What are you considering to be "extra"?


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Every of age citizen in this country is granted by the Constitution one vote.  That includes minorities.


What relevance does this have? Their vote means shit if they're not being represented fairly.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Affording minorities a special status, as you are doing by declaring they need special group consideration, is preferential.


Non-minorities have a leg-up in politics simply due to the size of their population in relation to minorities--they have greater representation, so they are receiving preferential treatment.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: Poid]
    #14175840 - 03/24/11 01:29 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:

Every member of a group may have representation in the government, but to say every group does is ridiculous.




Please point me to the section of the Constitution that mentions "group" in regards to representation.  All I find is "person". 
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Being a member of a group does not make you special.  Why should people who eschew group identity be disadvantaged in the political process?


Um, everybody is a part of a group (even if they eschew group identity), and everybody who is disadvantaged by any act of legislation is being disadvantaged by a group (be it Republicans, Democrats, Independents, etc.).


  If I eschew group identity who decides what group I belong in and identify with?  You?  By that last invocation of "group" shouldn't you be limiting yourself to "representatives" in toto?  Further, if the group being disadvantaged just so happens to be the vast majority do they qualify as a "group"?
Quote:



Why should people who eschew group identity be immune to being disadvantaged by the political process? What's so special about this particular group of people? :rofl:


  You mean the "group" that disavows being part of a "group"?:rofl:
Quote:

 


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You are participating in the politics of group identity, which is divisive.


All politics is divisive by nature.




Politics, as it was described to me in Poly sci, is the art of conflict resolution.  The conflict does not come from politics.  It comes from desire.
Quote:



Tending to cause disagreement or hostility between people.




I have no idea what that is.
Quote:




Since politics is simply (as you've put it so many times) conflict resolution, disagreement will necessarily be involved, and hostility is to be expected.




The conflict exists prior to the politicking.
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There is either more or less harmony.  Group identification contributes to lessening of general harmony.


Not necessarily--groups are not by definition necessarily opposed to each other.




But they are separatist and any separation is facilitative of conflict.
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And no it isn't retarded nor politically correct.  In fact, the PC crowd are participants themselves in the grievance mongering that comes out of group identity politics.


You don't think that denying the reality of the current state of human affairs is being PC? That's all PC is, bullshitting about the truth so you don't offend anybody. The truth is that humans are tribal in nature, and will separate themselves into groups because they don't easily harmonize with others that don't belong in their group; if you deny this, and/or do not want politics to acknowledge and consider it when drafting any legislation, you are supporting PCness.




I am not tribal.  I have no tribe.  I have never shied away from offending anybody, as you well know.  And no, I do not want politicians to consider tribalism when discussing legislation.

Let me give you a bulletin that you might find offensive.  Disagreeing with your stunted and selfish view of "the current state of human affairs" is not a denial of human nature.  I've been around a lot fucking longer than you have and have studied human nature a lot more closely than you have.  Kid.  I didn't get where I am by being oblivious to human nature.  It isn't some lab project I did in school.
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Preference, who said this? Representation is preference?



Nope.  Extra representation because of group membership is.


Extra? What are you considering to be "extra"?




Your the one who says that "groups" deserve representation.  I submit that only people do.  Making special accommodations for groups as happened in a recent hideous legal decision in Port Chester, NY

Quote:

To enforce the Voting Rights Act of 1965, the United States Department of Justice brought a lawsuit in 2006 to compel the village government to change from its present allegedly racially discriminatory at-large electoral system to one that is district-based. This lawsuit would halt the scheduled March 2007 elections until the village develops an acceptable plan. In its December 15, 2006 complaint the Justice Department alleged that, "the current at-large system for electing members of the Port Chester Board of Trustees results in Hispanic citizens having less opportunity than white citizens to participate in the political process and to elect candidates of their choice to the Port Chester Board of Trustees." (United States v. Village of Port Chester 6 Civil 15173) Local Latino activist Cesar Ruiz, NYS Assemblyman Peter Rivera and Angelo Falcón, President of the National Institute for Latino Policy held a news conference on Martin Luther King, Jr.'s birthday (January 15, 2007) to display support for the Justice Department's lawsuit and the need to reform the village's electoral system.

The Village Board of Trustees passed a resolution on December 4, 2006 expressing its disagreement with the Department of Justice's decision that the village must reform its election system, claiming that the problem was not discrimination but rather "apathy" in the Hispanic community. Federal authorities believe that the Village's "at large" voting system denies Hispanics representation on the board of trustees and the board of education. According to Reuters, "All voters in town elect each board member, whereas dividing the town into six electoral districts would give Hispanics a majority in at least one of them because they are largely concentrated in one area of town, the suit said." Although Latinos make up 46 percent of Port Chester's population, no Latinos had ever been elected to their Board of Trustees or local school board.

On March 2, 2007, federal court judge Stephen C. Robinson ruled in favor of the Department of Justice and placed an injunction on the March trustee elections scheduled to take place. This ruling did not affect the mayoral election, but it was expected to result in Port Chester being broken down into election districts. Instead, village officials came up with an alternative plan to address the problem by using cumulative voting. This plan was approved by the federal judge on November 6, 2009.[6]




There was no problem.  The only problem is that they want to impose racial quotas.  Rather than have geographically based districts, like Congress, they decided that didn't put enough members of a particular preferred group in the legislature.  Bullshit.

Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Every of age citizen in this country is granted by the Constitution one vote.  That includes minorities.


What relevance does this have? Their vote means shit if they're not being represented fairly.




If they vote they are being represented fairly.  If they don't vote they are being represented fairly.  Whether you think the vote means shit is irrelevant.  Do you propose to diminish the value of my vote to enhance the value of some group you prefer?  Perhaps you think there should be a race and gender quota system for Congress?  Also reserved seats for homosexuals?  And any other group that shouts loud enough?  Preferences.
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Affording minorities a special status, as you are doing by declaring they need special group consideration, is preferential.


Non-minorities have a leg-up in politics simply due to the size of their population in relation to minorities--they have greater representation, so they are receiving preferential treatment.



:rofl2:Being the majority is not preferential.  Perhaps you just don't don't care for Democracy.


--------------------

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14176675 - 03/24/11 03:47 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
ok i should have made this thread about bush AND obama

can you show me their voting records for both of like you were saying?





bush didnt have a voting record, he wasnt a rep or a senator




wait, how did he become president? i thought you had to be a state representative or senator to become president?

and wtf is wrong with zappa? dude you've said like 15,000 times how you think representing minorities isn't a fair thing? they bring crime etc. etc., that can't be labeled as 'minorities' in general, some minorities are the people that make up this country, the people that fuel industrialization, who else besides mexicans and blacks are going to be factory workers and car mechanics?


you know zappa, you are starting to seem really racist dude


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14176686 - 03/24/11 03:48 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

ScavengerType said:
He was a gov. He passed laws. He has a voting record. How ever, yes they would not be compatible for easy comparison.




in that case Barack Obama voted with george bush 93% of the time

Quote:

Also, pris what do you have against gays and coloured folk?




my penis





and btw we've all seen that penis, and although you think it's awesome to me it's just sub standard, meh... :shrug:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: imachavel]
    #14176760 - 03/24/11 04:01 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

anyway, this thread sure has been derailed, i should have started a topic based on representation of minorities, do you think it's fair or not in the united states? :lol:



but anyway, ok so bush was governor. but whatever it took to get bush to president, obama to president, senator, governor, state representative or whatever. what were the records for each person?


and please forget voting records. i mean how did they perform? were these people as lousy government representatives as they were/are presidents?


this is what i wanted to discuss, perhaps you guys should make another thread about the representation of minorities in the united states



another thing, zappa, you are an older person are you not? did you have the same views when you were younger? or have they changed since you have gotten older? or should i even ask? :lol:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: imachavel]
    #14177486 - 03/24/11 05:50 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
ok i should have made this thread about bush AND obama

can you show me their voting records for both of like you were saying?





bush didnt have a voting record, he wasnt a rep or a senator




wait, how did he become president? i thought you had to be a state representative or senator to become president?

and wtf is wrong with zappa? dude you've said like 15,000 times how you think representing minorities isn't a fair thing? they bring crime etc. etc., that can't be labeled as 'minorities' in general, some minorities are the people that make up this country, the people that fuel industrialization, who else besides mexicans and blacks are going to be factory workers and car mechanics?


you know zappa, you are starting to seem really racist dude




Given this statement;
"who else besides mexicans and blacks are going to be factory workers and car mechanics?"
You have a lot of nerve calling me racist.  I've said that giving preferential representation to minorities, or any other self identified separate group, is discriminatory preference and wrong.

I asked Poid this and now I'll ask you;

Do you think there should be quotas based on group ID in the House and Senate?  So many Negroes, so many women, so many Hispanics, so many homosexuals, so many atheists, so many Jews, so many Muslims, so many whatevers?  I sure hope not.


--------------------

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: Poid]
    #14180885 - 03/25/11 08:25 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...or voting on anything that would benefit minorities




And that is a bad thing, why? :confused:




Because there should be no laws passed that benefit ANY specific group.

Hate crime laws are a prime example of that.

Evil dude comes up to two people.

-----------------------------

Evil dude as he shoots me: Die you white average American asshole! Die!

Evil dude as he shoots the person next to me: Die you (insert ethnic or sexual slur here)! Die!

-----------------------------

Is either of us (having both been killed by evil dude) more dead than the other?

And how about laws benefiting minorities in other ways? Affirmative action for blacks... but not for the Irish, Italians or any other group?

Laws that benefit some, but at the expense of others, are just fucking stupid.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: Poid]
    #14180888 - 03/25/11 08:26 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Yeah, I guess the idea that minority groups should have fair representation is a bit too radical, isn't it?




Everyone should have equal representation.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: imachavel]
    #14180907 - 03/25/11 08:32 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
wait, how did he become president? i thought you had to be a state representative or senator to become president?




The following are the only legal requirements to be the POTUS.

Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14182514 - 03/25/11 02:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
ok i should have made this thread about bush AND obama

can you show me their voting records for both of like you were saying?





bush didnt have a voting record, he wasnt a rep or a senator




wait, how did he become president? i thought you had to be a state representative or senator to become president?

and wtf is wrong with zappa? dude you've said like 15,000 times how you think representing minorities isn't a fair thing? they bring crime etc. etc., that can't be labeled as 'minorities' in general, some minorities are the people that make up this country, the people that fuel industrialization, who else besides mexicans and blacks are going to be factory workers and car mechanics?


you know zappa, you are starting to seem really racist dude




Given this statement;
"who else besides mexicans and blacks are going to be factory workers and car mechanics?"
You have a lot of nerve calling me racist.  I've said that giving preferential representation to minorities, or any other self identified separate group, is discriminatory preference and wrong.

I asked Poid this and now I'll ask you;

Do you think there should be quotas based on group ID in the House and Senate?  So many Negroes, so many women, so many Hispanics, so many homosexuals, so many atheists, so many Jews, so many Muslims, so many whatevers?  I sure hope not.






you know what dude, you know what i meant to say, don't twist it. obviously ANYBODY can work in a factory or construction job. what I'm trying to say is, we have so many minorities doing those jobs, it's as if our entire industry is a minority job. I'm not speaking on opinion, i'm speaking of statistics.


where do you get the idea that there is some race card played in favor of minorities? a lot of people aren't even allowed to come live in this country, some are granted 'temporary' citizenship, and then sent back to their place of origin, after working here for years and years as hard working citizens.


and how did this topic get brought up? what does any of this have to do with george bush or barack obama's reputation as governor or senator or whatnot?? DAMN


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: imachavel]
    #14182868 - 03/25/11 05:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:

you know what dude, you know what i meant to say, don't twist it. obviously ANYBODY can work in a factory or construction job. what I'm trying to say is, we have so many minorities doing those jobs, it's as if our entire industry is a minority job. I'm not speaking on opinion, i'm speaking of statistics.




I don't care.  What industry does is irrelevant to what the government does.  And I'm as white as they come and so are most of the people who do construction around here. 
Quote:




where do you get the idea that there is some race card played in favor of minorities?




Affirmative Action, for one.
Quote:

a lot of people aren't even allowed to come live in this country,




That's right.  we do not have an open border policy.  I'd like to see the illegal Irish and illegal Eastern Europeans kicked the fuck out as much as any Hispanic.  They have caused more damage to my particular area of construction than Hispanics.  There is NO RACIAL COMPONENT to my desire to kick the illegals out
Quote:

some are granted 'temporary' citizenship,


  Nobody is granted temporary citizenship.  Nobody.  They get work visas for a specified period of time.  Sometimes that is a path to permanent residence status and even citizenship but there is absolutely no such thing as temporary citizenship.  Once you're a citizen it cannot be revoked.
Quote:

and then sent back to their place of origin, after working here for years and years as hard working citizens.




Or not.  Sometimes they earn citizenship.  Sometimes they don't.
Quote:




and how did this topic get brought up? what does any of this have to do with george bush or barack obama's reputation as governor or senator or whatnot?? DAMN




I dunno.  Go back and reread the thread.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: jebustrist]
    #14186360 - 03/26/11 11:31 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jebustrist said:
Suffice to say anyone who honestly thinks african-americans are on an equal footing with white americans is living in a dream world.





you're absolutely right, they have a leg up, affirmative action, the
exclusive all black clubs and organizations that would be deemed racist
if it were white groups

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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: imachavel]
    #14186366 - 03/26/11 11:33 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

ScavengerType said:
He was a gov. He passed laws. He has a voting record. How ever, yes they would not be compatible for easy comparison.




in that case Barack Obama voted with george bush 93% of the time

Quote:

Also, pris what do you have against gays and coloured folk?




my penis





and btw we've all seen that penis, and although you think it's awesome to me it's just sub standard, meh... :shrug:





I guess you're unaware that it's a ridiculous response to a ridiculous question

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: imachavel]
    #14186451 - 03/26/11 11:50 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I missed this post because I responded to an earlier one and just jumped it.

Quote:

imachavel said:
anyway, this thread sure has been derailed, i should have started a topic based on representation of minorities, do you think it's fair or not in the united states? :lol:



but anyway, ok so bush was governor. but whatever it took to get bush to president, obama to president, senator, governor, state representative or whatever. what were the records for each person?

and please forget voting records. i mean how did they perform? were these people as lousy government representatives as they were/are presidents?


this is what i wanted to discuss, perhaps you guys should make another thread about the representation of minorities in the united states




Obama essentially had no record to run on or against at all.  Bush had to run on or run against several years of governor of Texas.  Obama got elected to the state senate by throwing other people off the ballot.  While a state senator he punted on a lot of things and voted mostly "present".  As US Senator he made a few speeches, many of which contradict his current actions, but mostly just ran for President.  A compliant press let him get away with it.
Quote:






another thing, zappa, you are an older person are you not? did you have the same views when you were younger? or have they changed since you have gotten older? or should i even ask? :lol:




A totally fair question.  Of course there have been some things that I have changed my thinking on.  For instance I am much more disgusted with Islam than previously but that was because they hadn't yet become so prominent a problem.  For this reason my support for Israel has increased.  My attitude towards drug use has also changed slightly.  Although I still believe there should be no legal prohibition for any substance at all, I do not think that any good can come of it except for momentary entertainment. 

Regarding economics and the role of government I am essentially unchanged since mid-college, with one possible exception.  I used to think that government programs ostensibly designed to encourage desirable behavior could be of some value.  At this point I think there is nothing the government does in this regard that doesn't fall prey to the vast industry of government benefit scammers.  They make you jump through such hoops to apply that only professional applicants ever get anything, which is crap.  By trying to avoid fraud they industrialize it.  There will always be a vast army of scammers who can wiggle around whatever safeguards the law writers come up with.  It should just stop.


--------------------

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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14189990 - 03/27/11 12:55 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

ok. very good answers indeed.


umm, pris, you DID as a matter of fact post that pic of your penor, maybe in a different thread(or journal:shrug:), and yes i know your response in THIS thread was a dumb answer to a dumb question, but none the less you said "my penis" and i replied with "well, have HAVE seen that now haven't we? :wink:"
:facepalm:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: does anyone know obama's rep as a senator? [Re: imachavel]
    #14190969 - 03/27/11 07:58 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I find it amusing that all you want to talk about is my penis

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