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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14165157 - 03/22/11 03:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Re-asking A question I posed to the OP, would any of you who are opposed to a master listen to a doctor who told you that treating the early stages of a disease, when you are not physically experience its effects, would be of incredible benefit? Or would you listen to your individual experience, acting only when the disease fully surfaced in your life?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinethe bizzle
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Icelander]
    #14165163 - 03/22/11 03:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

but the way some are perceiving it in this thread is to take nothin from no one, but then how do you learn anything, is it all truly from within? how does one obtain manners and morals?






"Jesus was an only son,

love his only concept."




in other words....you can't look to anybody else to tell you what reality is. Only YOU can interpret what it is that you are experiencing. You can know (or perhaps make an educated guess) that a fact is a fact, and you can also know that you're really not quite sure...

Good advice is good advice, but I can't conquer the challenge for you

and I was born knowing nothing just like you. I don't know everything. So take what I say with a grain of salt... sounds like pretty good advice, no?


who decides what a "master" (at life) is anyway? many students grow to outperform their teachers. Pretty neat


"anybody who says they don't learn something new everyday is full of shit" --blue collared worker


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID



Edited by the bizzle (03/22/11 03:09 PM)


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Kickle]
    #14165177 - 03/22/11 03:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Health is a very different thing to getting your own views down. Becoming a doctor is about mostly about collecting knowledge and learning technique, getting your own views down is about sorting through the fundamentals and looking around.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14165191 - 03/22/11 03:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Health is a very different thing to getting your own views down. Becoming a doctor is about mostly about collecting knowledge and learning technique, getting your own views down is about sorting through the fundamentals and looking around.




I'm asking about your views on your health :shrug:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Kickle]
    #14165205 - 03/22/11 03:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry it sounding a lot like you were relating it to the discussion.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14165241 - 03/22/11 03:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well, it is related. If you would trust the doctor despite your personal experience, that just means you place your trust in a different type of master. And it is likely the result of your own knowledge and experience, even though you yourself are likely not a doctor.

The same could be said of any master. It is a trust based on personal experience although one likely is not a master themselves. Naturally one has to keep their wits about them. There are shoddy docs out there.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineMuufokfok
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14165243 - 03/22/11 03:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

the general relationship between a master and retainer is one of respect, trust, friendship and equality. This is from the book Hagakure The way of the samurai, which is how i think of anyone i accept spiritual lessons, or general teachings from.
Quote:

it is spiritless to think that you cannot attain to that which you have seen and heard masters attain. The masters are men. You are also a man. If you think that you will be inferior in doing something, you will be on the road very soon.
Master Ittei said, "confuscius was a sage because he had the will to become a scholar when he was fifteen years old. He was not a sage because he studied later on." this is the same as the buddhist maxim, "First intention, then enlightenment"




--------------------
"I'm guessing the 'ancient lost drug' of india is psychedelic mushrooms. The correlation between sacred cows (in hinduism) and magic mushrooms growing on cow dung is too strong to ignore, if you ask me."

As the ocean waves, the universe "peoples"
~Alan Watts~


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OfflineMuufokfok
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Kickle]
    #14165264 - 03/22/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Well, it is related. If you would trust the doctor despite your personal experience, that just means you place your trust in a different type of master. And it is likely the result of your own knowledge and experience, even though you yourself are likely not a doctor.

The same could be said of a master. It is a trust based on personal experience although one likely is not a master themselves. Naturally in both cases one has to keep their wits about them. There are shoddy docs out there.



i dont trust doctors, unless its a physical injury.

i trust herbal and fungal remedies, because i used to take advair and that shit can kill you. just goes to show you some masters cant be trusted.

i mean look at all the pharma opiates...:nonono:


--------------------
"I'm guessing the 'ancient lost drug' of india is psychedelic mushrooms. The correlation between sacred cows (in hinduism) and magic mushrooms growing on cow dung is too strong to ignore, if you ask me."

As the ocean waves, the universe "peoples"
~Alan Watts~


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14165282 - 03/22/11 03:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
I can't see how spending twelve year inspecting an animal is going to get you anywhere. Just sounds like a waste of time and an indulgence in self importance to me.




This is just a cultural program.

If one aquiesces to the notion of animal as marginal, that is, defined by a history of its deprecation in comparison to humans, then like its name, this does seem like a waste of time to study, being just an animal.

If an animal signifies something that is not merely deprecated as Other, then what difference signifies it? Like its name, it would apparently exist in an arbitrary way, as just being.

What animal do you mean?


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Muufokfok]
    #14165295 - 03/22/11 03:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't trust doctors for shit either They have given me very bad advice in the past. That doesn't mean pharamaceutical medicine is always a bad thing. Always look whatever they give up online first and weigh the pros and cons up myself. :shrug:


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: daytripper23]
    #14165313 - 03/22/11 03:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It was intended as a leveller, I'll read a book by someone and if I don't like it I can put it down, spending 12 years inspecting the author is not something I'm a fan of though and seems blatently idiotic.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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OfflineMuufokfok
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14165320 - 03/22/11 03:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
It was intended as a leveller, I'll read a book by someone and if I don't like it I can put it down, spending 12 years inspecting the author is not something I'm a fan of though and seems blatently idiotic.



thats their culture, some people dont grow up with internet and easily attainable knowledge.

not to forget the awesomeness of deep meditation, some of them are patient enough to continue those 12 years


--------------------
"I'm guessing the 'ancient lost drug' of india is psychedelic mushrooms. The correlation between sacred cows (in hinduism) and magic mushrooms growing on cow dung is too strong to ignore, if you ask me."

As the ocean waves, the universe "peoples"
~Alan Watts~


Edited by Muufokfok (03/22/11 03:34 PM)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14165324 - 03/22/11 03:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The trail just keeps going. Understanding more of a medicine does not give you the information a bio-chemical engineer will have, for instance. And you may take something that you feel comfortable with that such a person wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

No one knows everything and there are varying degrees of trust the whole way along. That includes on the doctors end, and the bio-chemists end, and as far as I can tell it's a necessity. The only difference I can really see is where the imaginary lines get drawn.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Muufokfok]
    #14165333 - 03/22/11 03:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

well during that 12 years (which is stated as a maximum) one would still be receiving teachings from multiple sources and would be practicing, but this is to select a root guru, which is a very important decision in tibetan buddhism - also one could be examining more than one teacher at a time for the role, and it wouldn't be a full-time examination

but basically, selecting the right root guru is very important in tibetan buddhism, not something you just rush out and do


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Kickle]
    #14165335 - 03/22/11 03:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

True, however the closer you get to the source the better the knowledge, the internet seems like the best way of doing that.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14165349 - 03/22/11 03:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Right, but no one is perfect, including this personal guru inside. IMO whether a spiritual master is sought or not, it is always that inner guru telling someone it is a good idea or not. There is no one who doesn't listen to themselves, even if that is telling them that another is worth trusting.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineMuufokfok
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Kickle]
    #14165357 - 03/22/11 03:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i feel like this is once again being overanalyzed and getting no where, :rolleyes:, seems to come back to the same conclusion with no concrete-ness to OP's statement except that his was too concrete.

but this has distracted me from homework for too long :crankey:


--------------------
"I'm guessing the 'ancient lost drug' of india is psychedelic mushrooms. The correlation between sacred cows (in hinduism) and magic mushrooms growing on cow dung is too strong to ignore, if you ask me."

As the ocean waves, the universe "peoples"
~Alan Watts~


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Kickle]
    #14165385 - 03/22/11 03:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The way I see it there are plenty of people who just imitate others without really thinking for themselves. There are also plenty of gurus who just tell their students the way it is with flowery words while the students hang on their every word. I could be wrong but a lot of it seems much the same in this manner as any religion.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Muufokfok]
    #14165404 - 03/22/11 03:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

the way I see it we can't effectively trust anything 100% and that includes ourself. But we all choose what works best for us, even if it will never be the perfection we all so badly crave.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spiritual "Masters" and "gurus" [Re: Kickle]
    #14165444 - 03/22/11 04:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Re-asking A question I posed to the OP, would any of you who are opposed to a master listen to a doctor who told you that treating the early stages of a disease, when you are not physically experience its effects, would be of incredible benefit? Or would you listen to your individual experience, acting only when the disease fully surfaced in your life?





I might listen but then I would do some research to see if I agreed with the Doc. They tend to be mighty dangerous know it alls with a god complex.  Using a doctor was a good example:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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