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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Tilopa
#14162802 - 03/22/11 01:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Just came across this dude today, i like him a lot
The 6 precepts or words of advice he gave his student Naropa was...
Don't remember Don't imagine Don't think Don't examine Don't control Rest
In short he was the living embodiment of a materialists (or spiritual practitioners) nightmare! 
“The problem is not enjoyment, the problem is attachment.”
Tilopa
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soldatheero
lastirishman


Registered: 03/09/07
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Sweet. Now wouldn't that be nice to maintain that constant state of rest.
"The fool in his ignorance, disdaining Mahamudra, Knows nothing but struggle in the flood of samsara. Have compassion for those who suffer constant anxiety! Sick of unrelenting pain and desiring release, adhere to a master, For when his blessing touches your heart, the mind is liberated." wiki
I wonder if Tilopa suggested a master is required to adhere to that advice(?)
Meher - "There are two kinds of experience: real and imitation. Just as it is difficult to distinguish an imitation from a real pearl, so it is difficult to distinguish between an imitation and a real spiritual experience.
When finally the Real Experience is gained, worldly things and circumstances cannot affect you. Once gained, the Real Experience is never lost; it is permanent. To get this Experience Hafiz has said, Become footless and headless.
What is meant by becoming footless and headless? It means implicitly obeying the Perfect Master: following His orders literally and not using your head to analyse their significance; doing only what He wants you to do -- your feet moving at His command and your life being lived in the way of His love." Meher
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Nowadays seekers can use intellectual understanding to pretend they don't need a master to awaken, even though it's been repeatedly said for thousands of years that it is necessary People can be temporarily satisfied by their self created imitation experiences, but any imitation is a limitation, the Real is limitless
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NastyDHL



Registered: 04/04/08
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Quote:
The Chronic said: Nowadays seekers can use intellectual understanding to pretend they don't need a master to awaken, even though it's been repeatedly said for thousands of years that it is necessary People can be temporarily satisfied by their self created imitation experiences, but any imitation is a limitation, the Real is limitless

paradoxically, this awakening occurs within yet is triggered externally. so is it there accessible all along or is it only available in the presence of another? whatever the answer to that is, love is the answer to the next question.
our truest nature is to serve. and to have someone who is humble to the nature of human existence and is aware of anothers openness to be led (instead of playing the unacknowledged social power tug and pull games) is an enormously valuable spiritual resource. its a state of honesty and openness that most NEVER experience.
i believe most are still stuck at the level of a bratty child (while not enjoying life like a child) merely behaving under an illusion of civility while not actually valuing peace and the idea of community.. because they can't humble themselves to their nature which they judge as being weak or pathetic they are not respectful of their true sensitivity so they starve their selves of love because they are too proud to let 'it' be so they instead by social games to try and take it from others. but if they had someone who was aware of all this and would gladly give 'it' to them while also keeping their pride in check then their spiritual progress would take off.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
The Chronic said: Nowadays seekers can use intellectual understanding to pretend they don't need a master to awaken, even though it's been repeatedly said for thousands of years that it is necessary People can be temporarily satisfied by their self created imitation experiences, but any imitation is a limitation, the Real is limitless
so because masters have been saying for thousands of years they are necessary makes it true?
The Catholic church has been saying similar things about the necessity of the church and priests.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Some surrender is necessary, whether you surrender to a human Guru, a mountain, a statue, whatever, surrender is necessary.
Going to another human for help to find your own freedom is a beautiful thing, especially when that human is telling you that you have to do it yourself, it's the act of going to another human that can bring a suppleness into the mind that enables you to do it yourself. It's the intention, it's like telling the universe 'im ready, please show yourself, i need to know' and that desperation can lead you to one that does 'know', it's a common fact (?) that being around someone who has mastered meditation can enable your own meditation to be strong, its just so cliche with words like 'masters', 'gurus' & 'god' that peoples egos get turned off, and good, because then they aren't ready anyway.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Quote:
NastyDHL said: so is it there accessible all along or is it only available in the presence of another?
Good point, it is there all along, ever present, but the minds rigidity keeps it from recognizing it's ever presence, loosening the minds rigidity is what is needed to recognize a subtle truth
Its a delicate balance, such a paradox, because there is time where surrender to a form happens & then consequently the mind gains strength to recognize its formlessness all alone
And it's all only ever the Self anyway, me surrendering to Ramana is just my mind surrendering to another form of myself, it's my ego submitting to something greater than itself, all the forms & disciple/master relationships is just on the surface, its just so one can get over his/her ego & dig deeper
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
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Quote:
it's a common fact (?) that being around someone who has mastered meditation can enable your own meditation to be strong
here are some nifty quotes from zen master rama about that:
If you are a student of an enlightened master, you can literally tap into his aura, anywhere and at anytime. All you have to do is meditate on your Buddhist master and the light will come into your mind.
No one on this earth attains enlightenment anymore without an enlightened master as a guide, unless that person was enlightened in many previous incarnations.
At times your entire body tingles with ecstasy as you feel the waves of psychic energy that emanate from the master's aura touching your own body.
If the teacher is truly enlightened, energy and light is always coming forth from them. To be in their physical presence is a great boon, not of the teacher but of that light which passes through them.
If you can develop a connection, what we call an inner connection with the teacher, then it is not even necessary to be in the physical presence of the teacher, although it will always be stronger.
http://ramaquotes.com/html/enlightened_teachers.html
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jivJaN
yes


Registered: 08/09/08
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so whos the master masters master ?
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--------------------- All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional. They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively. I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal. If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
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Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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i don't think my imagination is going anywhere 
but sometimes it is necessary to abandon the mind. it'll always come back better.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
The Chronic said: Some surrender is necessary, whether you surrender to a human Guru, a mountain, a statue, whatever, surrender is necessary.
Going to another human for help to find your own freedom is a beautiful thing, especially when that human is telling you that you have to do it yourself, it's the act of going to another human that can bring a suppleness into the mind that enables you to do it yourself. It's the intention, it's like telling the universe 'im ready, please show yourself, i need to know' and that desperation can lead you to one that does 'know', it's a common fact (?) that being around someone who has mastered meditation can enable your own meditation to be strong, its just so cliche with words like 'masters', 'gurus' & 'god' that peoples egos get turned off, and good, because then they aren't ready anyway.
it's a common fact
Nice story.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Tony
Stranger

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Being around someone who's relaxed doesn't help you relax?
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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Re: Tilopa [Re: Tony]
#14173267 - 03/23/11 10:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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when i used to get really relaxed my roommate would start getting really antsy and try to bother me. some people don't like mirrors.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Tilopa [Re: Tony]
#14175748 - 03/24/11 01:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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yeah it can go either way, a master can either open up your mind to the inner peace, or completely disturb your mind, apart from loving an environment that's 100% about the truth i go to satsang because its the one place that can still appear to disturb my mind, kindof like taking psychedelics to deepen meditation, you don't necessarily only take them because it's all blissfull but because they challenge you
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Kickle
Wanderer


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I greatly approve of this thread on all sides. Thanks all.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Tony
Stranger

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When I was in Mooji's satsang it was enough that he looked in the general direction where I was sitting to make me feel disturbed. In fact it was like getting hit on the forehead by an invisible bullet when he was first scanning the room, then I just sat there shaking.
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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Re: Tilopa [Re: Tony]
#14176232 - 03/24/11 02:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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omg you went to a physical satsang?! awesome dude. One day...
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Tony
Stranger

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Re: Tilopa [Re: g00ru]
#14179347 - 03/24/11 11:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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It was just a two-hour one-evening satsang, but I still feel it was worth the "expenses". Just gotta tear yourself out of the matrix, even if that means some flesh will stick to the cables..
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jivJaN
yes


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Re: Tilopa [Re: Tony]
#14180558 - 03/25/11 05:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tony said: When I was in Mooji's satsang it was enough that he looked in the general direction where I was sitting to make me feel disturbed. In fact it was like getting hit on the forehead by an invisible bullet when he was first scanning the room, then I just sat there shaking. 
odd. i wonder how many other people have made you feel the same way.
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--------------------- All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional. They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively. I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal. If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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Tony
Stranger

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Re: Tilopa [Re: jivJaN]
#14180881 - 03/25/11 08:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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No one recently. When I was a kid lots of people make me nervous, but I guess it takes a progressively more "advanced" being to bring up those deep insecurities about myself, "advanced" being also my own projection.
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


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Re: Tilopa [Re: Tony]
#14181165 - 03/25/11 09:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have not read much of Tilopa's work, but I have read the teachings of Milarepa, who was the student of Naropa, who was the student of Tilopa. Here is what I consider one of his more powerful poems:
Quote:
Through wandering long in many places, I have forgotten my native land. Staying long with my Holy Jetsun, I have forgotten all my kinsmen. Keeping for long the Buddha's Teaching, I have forgotten worldly things. Staying for long in hermitages, I have forgotten all diversions. Through long hours watching monkeys' play, I have forgotten sheep and cattle. Long accustomed to a tinder-box, I have forgotten all household chores. Long used to solitude without servant or master, I have forgotten courteous manners. Long accustomed to be carefree, I have forgotten worldly shame. Long accustomed to the mind coming and going By itself, I have forgotten how to hide things. Long used to burning Duma-heat, I have forgotten clothing.
Long accustomed to practicing Non-discriminating Wisdom, I have forgotten all distracting thoughts. Long used to practicing the Two-in-One Illumination, I have forgotten all nonsensical ideas. These twelve oblivions are the teachings of this yogi. Why, dear patrons, do you not also follow them? I have united the knot of dualism; What need have I to follow your customs? To me, Bodhi is spontaneity itself!
The Dharma of you worldly people Is too difficult to practice. Caring for naught, I live the way I please. Your so-called 'shame' only brings deceit And fraud; How to pretend I know not.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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deff
just love everyone



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Re: Tilopa [Re: Lion]
#14181604 - 03/25/11 11:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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milarepa is great (though he was the student of marpa who was the student of naropa)
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Tilopa [Re: Lion]
#14185404 - 03/26/11 03:45 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Really cool poem 
I have forgotten courteous manners. Long accustomed to be carefree, I have forgotten worldly shame. I have forgotten all nonsensical ideas. What need have I to follow your customs? To me, Bodhi is spontaneity itself!
The Dharma of you worldly people Is too difficult to practice. Caring for naught, I live the way I please.
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


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Re: Tilopa [Re: deff]
#14185785 - 03/26/11 08:04 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: milarepa is great (though he was the student of marpa who was the student of naropa)

My knowledge of Buddhism is slippin', and my wisdom and compassion along with it.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Tony
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Re: Tilopa [Re: Lion]
#14185876 - 03/26/11 08:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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.
Edited by Tony (03/28/11 07:44 PM)
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Tilopa [Re: Tony]
#14198013 - 03/28/11 01:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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dude
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Tony
Stranger

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.
Edited by Tony (03/28/11 07:45 PM)
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Cups
technically "here"


Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,925
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Re: Tilopa [Re: Tony]
#14199925 - 03/28/11 08:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Why did you delete your post Tony?
-------------------- What's up everybody?!
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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Re: Tilopa [Re: Cups]
#14203856 - 03/29/11 01:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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well the new one certainly represents the truth quite well
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Tony
Stranger

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Re: Tilopa [Re: g00ru]
#14208114 - 03/30/11 07:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I like how Mooji says the Self is free but not wild. This kinda implies to me that there is no balance to maintain in life, but neither is it necessary to make a lifestyle out of chaos.
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