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OfflineMagicCannabus
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Whole brown rice, gluten-free, LC, and edible subs
    #14158556 - 03/21/11 09:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hello everyone. Haven't been around for a while, but I am once again growing some fun guys. Having read about the work of the user Blue Helix, I decided to try making some LCs last time I had a harvest. Long story short, I made a few good LCs, but did not know it at the time and contaminated a few of them by accident. A friend of mine wanted to play with the two remaining LC bottles(baby bottles), and now he's knocking up rye jars and then bulk subs in turn. It has gone pretty well for him and I now want to try my hand at it.

My main problem with his methods is glutens, but there's certainly more reasons than that why I want to try some new options. Those not familiar with gluten-intolerance rarely have any clue how risky even a microscopic amount of gluten is for us. In fact, there's virtually no difference between a massive poisoning and a tiny one. One rye berry a week would be like never starting my diet at all.

I'm really interested in whole brown rice, and started 2 pint jars, and 4 half-pint jars with just brown rice straight out of the rice cooker. I cooked the rice, opened it up, stirred it, closed it again for a few, and then spooned some into my jars. I very carefully kept it from clumping, and yet tried to avoid too many gaps. I think I have developed a pretty solid method for that part. I also crushed up about 1000mg of niacin pills and cooked them into the rice. I just did that part on whim since the pills were mostly brown rice flower, plus they had an edible mold inhibitor in them(see where I'm going with this?). Since I'm working with LC the mold inhibitor doesn't seem to be stopping growth in there. My biggest problem with it visually so far is the cooked rice and the mycellium are virtually identical in color. Even if this particular test fails, I intend to keep trying! My hope is that with the rice substrate choices, a fast-colonizing sub that is edible should be possible. Anyone here have much experience with edible substrates? Do they have much effect? Also, half my test jars have a pair of HEPA patches, but the others have no ventilation. I suspect the incredible colonization rates will allow it to finish before the O2 runs out, but anyone's experience in this regard would be most helpful.

After those jars and 6 brf/verm(3 strains, half with flax added) jars were injected with about 1ml LC each, I left them at my buddies. I know the PF jars are colonizing really well. They were about 25% done yesterday, and I'm guessing we're on maybe day 5 now. LC is awesome! Once you get a good eye for what contams tend to look like and how they behave, LC becomes more practical. I had to lose over a dozen baby bottles to learn these things, but I'm definitely more confident with them. Still, if I had a lab, I'd probably work with agar first then move that to LC for better isolation and so I could see the contams before they went into the bottle. Best thing about my LC work so far though is no PC required, and it can be made under some surprisingly dirty conditions.

What I'm also really wanting badly is any pictures of other people's whole brown rice experiments. Even if it failed! Please show me. I'm dreaming about making LC spawn bags like Blue Helix does, but with edible substrates that don't absolutely need PC'd. I will try to get some pictures going later today and post them for ya.

I currently am working with the following LCs:

* Ban Hua Thannon: Grew some PF cakes from multi-spore(from Ralphsters) 6 months or more ago and had a really impressible multi-headed cluster. It also had a very high quality experience. Perhaps my favorite so far.

* Koh Samui: Got a hpoo/coir cake from my buddy after he had a flush or two out of it. On flush #4, it produced an epic fruit that was 8.3 grams dry. While I know bigger does not equal better necessarily, it had a lot of other good qualities(fast growing, hard-hitting).

* Tak Mountain: My buddy made this LC. I don't think I've ever consumed these particular cubes, but I now have two PF jars, so we'll see what comes of it! Unfortunately I never saw the fruit he cloned, but he's a competent farmer and wouldn't have picked anything bad.
Have you used whole brown rice to grow cubensis?
You may choose only one
If yes, how did it turn out?
You may choose only one
Did you PC the WBR?
You may choose only one
Have you ever tried edible substrates?
You may choose only one
How did the potency/quality compare to fruits?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (03/21/11 09:53 AM) to (No end specified)
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OfflineMagicCannabus
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Re: Whole brown rice, gluten-free, LC, and edible subs [Re: MagicCannabus]
    #14159212 - 03/21/11 01:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Just a quick update. Pictures will come later still, sorry. I went and checked the jars and they seem to be colonizing pretty well. It really looks like what it's supposed to. It was so far along I figured I'd give shaking them a try(they were 20-30% colonized). I really figured when I started this that the rice might not shake, but other than a bit that sticks to the inside of the jar, it shakes pretty well. You just have to be strategic about how you move the jar and how hard you shake it. Most of it broke up and mixed quite nicely though. It's really important to use a jar bigger than you strictly need, just like with rye berries. You have to have some space to move the contents around. Too little and you have to use more force to break it all up. I filled these about 2/3 at most, and it seems to be working very nicely.

I'm surprised really by how easy this whole process has been. Assuming contams don't take over, I could be birthing these within the next 7 days very easily.


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OfflineMagicCannabus
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Re: Whole brown rice, gluten-free, LC, and edible subs [Re: MagicCannabus]
    #14164017 - 03/22/11 11:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry I could not get better macro shots(gonna try a different camera tomorrow), but here's a few pictures of what I have been working on. Not sure if you will be able to see the mycellium on the WBR jars because of the coloring and the low resolution limit here. There's definitely mycellium in there, but I also just finished shaking those jars an hour or two before taking these shots.

Some of my whole brown rice jars:














A couple of my BRF test jars:





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OfflineMagicCannabus
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Re: Whole brown rice, gluten-free, LC, and edible subs [Re: MagicCannabus]
    #14166264 - 03/22/11 06:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry, putting up pics as they become available. Here's a shot of a bulk sub I have going right now. It's hpoo/coir/gypsum, and it was created with rye berries that were started with the same LC I am using for my whole brown rice jars.



Been getting acceptable results from this, but my temp/humidity sensor went out and so I have had to guess lately. Just wondering if I should be pulling the first few pins off to get more even flushes. I'm just not certain how I should go about that. I want more even results though rather than the staggered output it's been giving me. More even flushes would help give me more clear windows to dunk/refrigerate. Any advice on what to do here would be really appreciated.

The chamber the cakes are in is a plastic foot locker with lava rock in the bottom with damp perlite poured over it. It's mounted at about 4 feet from the floor and there's a Filter Queen Defender 360 running right next to it. I have a heat pad for the chamber, but don't use it a lot since the furnace is right across the hall from that room. I would guess the temps in there rarely drop below 60, and typically are 65-70 for the room in general. I moved the cake trays on to marble blocks so they're off the perlite a bit(more air-perlite interaction that way, plus running the heating pad doesn't dry out the cakes so quickly. Hopefully that will allow me to use the heating pad more.

Found a better camera too, hopefully I can get some actual shots of mycellium in those jars. It's definitely there, but that other camera takes terrible macro shots.


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OfflineMagicCannabus
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Re: Whole brown rice, gluten-free, LC, and edible subs [Re: MagicCannabus]
    #14174779 - 03/24/11 09:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Here's a better shot of one of the 1 pint jars. I'm guessing it's 70% colonized? I've only shaken it up one time. Think that's enough?? So far I'm just treating it the way you'd treat a rye berry jar. The lack of feedback here has forced me to guess on a few things, but the guessing seems to be going well at least.



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Invisiblehiggledy-piggledy

Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 966
Re: Whole brown rice, gluten-free, LC, and edible subs [Re: MagicCannabus]
    #14175077 - 03/24/11 10:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MagicCannabus said:
...and it was created with rye berries that were started with the same LC I am using for my whole brown rice jars.



what about your gluten intolerance?

gluten as a mixture of proteins will be degraded by the mushroom quite fast,
so i think in the end there will be no gluten in the grown fruitbodies.

dont get me wrong, dont want to convince you.


what you are doing there looks good, the colonized rice and such.

stay with the gluten-free stuff if it works for you.
nice chance to compare the results of the rye and rice grow.

with the white rice its hard to tell the colonization stage.
just shake your jars once (at 20-30%), thats enough.


looking forward to some nice mushrooms. keep us updated.

:plur:


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OfflineMagicCannabus
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Re: Whole brown rice, gluten-free, LC, and edible subs [Re: higgledy-piggledy]
    #14175549 - 03/24/11 12:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

higgledy-piggledy said:
what about your gluten intolerance?

gluten as a mixture of proteins will be degraded by the mushroom quite fast,
so i think in the end there will be no gluten in the grown fruitbodies.

dont get me wrong, dont want to convince you.




You are technically correct in that the fruit bodies do not have glutens in the fruit body's flesh. Gluten-intolerance does not require much though. If one worker at a food factory goes to lunch and handles a sandwich, then comes back to work without proper hand washing, the entire line they are working on will be glutenous, even if it is a specifically gluten-free line. I often have found whole rye berries in the base of some of them, and this is definitely enough to make them dangerous for me. Removing trace glutens from something is very hard.


Quote:

what you are doing there looks good, the colonized rice and such.

stay with the gluten-free stuff if it works for you.
nice chance to compare the results of the rye and rice grow.

with the white rice its hard to tell the colonization stage.
just shake your jars once (at 20-30%), thats enough.


looking forward to some nice mushrooms. keep us updated.

:plur:




Thanks for the feedback. If only brown rice was more brown.... Wild rice works better from what I have heard, but it is sooooo expensive.

Hopefully the moisture content isn't a problem. They sure don't seem unhappy thus far...

Still haven't decided what to do with the PF jars. The Tak Mountain jars don't seem to be growing much of anything, but the Ban Hua and Koh Samui BRF jars are doing really great. I might just fruit them directly, and then I can compare the ones with flax and without.


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OfflineMagicCannabus
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Re: Whole brown rice, gluten-free, LC, and edible subs [Re: MagicCannabus]
    #14180432 - 03/25/11 04:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

As I feared, I have the moisture too high in the rice. A couple of them have developed lipstick mold. The good ones are 90-95% colonized though. Do you guys think I should just open them up and discard the uncolonized rice? I really want to save the good ones if I can....


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Invisiblehiggledy-piggledy

Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 966
Re: Whole brown rice, gluten-free, LC, and edible subs [Re: MagicCannabus]
    #14181150 - 03/25/11 09:51 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

the bad ones go out in the trash, of course.


as to the good ones:

dont open them.
if they made it to 90-95%, they will make it to the end.

you just got a little panic attack...  :chillpill:


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OfflineMagicCannabus
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Re: Whole brown rice, gluten-free, LC, and edible subs [Re: higgledy-piggledy]
    #14184257 - 03/25/11 09:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The main problem I'm having with the remaining jars is that there are a couple clumps of rice mush that won't come off the walls of the jars. The rest of the rice has formed a really nice cake and pulled back from the walls, but I'm not sure the myc can colonize the lumps. Can I just dump out the good cake, make sure there's no uncolonized bits on it, and then birth it/dunk it? I don't want to leave the colonized mass in with the mushy bits. They don't look like they've contaminated yet, but I have not sniffed the jars. I am not confident opening them without more advice..... any advice on this would be very appreciated!


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InvisibleFungal growth
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Re: Whole brown rice, gluten-free, LC, and edible subs [Re: MagicCannabus]
    #14184299 - 03/25/11 09:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

please don't eat substrate.
it makes us all look bad.


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Invisiblehiggledy-piggledy

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Re: Whole brown rice, gluten-free, LC, and edible subs [Re: MagicCannabus]
    #14185344 - 03/26/11 03:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

if you consider your cakes being ready,
you open them and the first you do is take the clumps off the wall.

easy.


Quote:

MagicCannabus said:
Can I just dump out the good cake, make sure there's no uncolonized bits on it, and then birth it/dunk it?



do you want to spawn them to bulk,
or do you want to put them in your fc like ordinary brf cakes?

when spawning to a bulk substrate its not necessary to dunk.


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OfflineMagicCannabus
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Re: Whole brown rice, gluten-free, LC, and edible subs [Re: Fungal growth]
    #14191594 - 03/27/11 11:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fungal growth said:
please don't eat substrate.
it makes us all look bad.





I'm really not sure how my actions affect you. I don't want to waste things, is that really so horrible? Save your judgments for things that actually affect you.


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OfflineMagicCannabus
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Re: Whole brown rice, gluten-free, LC, and edible subs [Re: higgledy-piggledy]
    #14191607 - 03/27/11 11:09 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

higgledy-piggledy said:
if you consider your cakes being ready,
you open them and the first you do is take the clumps off the wall.

easy.

do you want to spawn them to bulk,
or do you want to put them in your fc like ordinary brf cakes?

when spawning to a bulk substrate its not necessary to dunk.




I'm probably gonna try to fruit it. Still not sure exactly what method I am going to use, but I'll probably make a 1-cake FC for this test, just in case this cake is dirty. I've been deathly ill this week though, so I'm not on top of some of this stuff like I'd like to be.


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