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DeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
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Quote:
Tchan909 said: I think a lot of people around were kids when Iraq happened and have an incomplete understanding of what a jaw-dropping injustice that was, but remember the popular protests and are just imitatin' now that another military operation, however better-justified and legitimate, comes along. Protest is hip and cutting-edge, even if it's poorly-conceived and ill-informed.
I was 19. It was bullshit then and we are still there. We have no business getting involved in anything that can be considered war.
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nice1
Not the droid your looking for



Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 11 years, 29 days
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Quote:
Tchan909 said: What makes you think "population control" = genocide? What if people fucking wisened up and started using birth control? Or a one-child policy, which is certainly a totalitarian measure but better than genocide? Also, how do you link Guantanamo, a strictly US operation which is highly controversial, to omninational cooperation? Furthermore, what is your source for all of this?
You sound very angry and I think you already get what I'm saying. No need to spell it out.
My source is me. I watch the news. I read reports. I triple check my sources and don't rely on any 1 mainstream media outlet.
If something I've said is wrong and you can prove it then I'll happily alter my view but I don't want to chat with someone that is clearly looking to vent anger anywhere he can because its non productive discussion. People have varying opinions and some are uninformed. Deal with it. No need to stay angry.
Good day sir.
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danielx
whatup!


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 6,500
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Quote:
Tchan909 said: Would you prefer the world to remain in the grips of an unstable and constantly shifting balance of power, periodically exploding into global holocausts?
I swear to God, people.
and this military operation, is somehow, going to change this? Yeah, gum drops, fairies, and unicorns.
there wlll be unintended consequences, like always.
-------------------- Long live kratom
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Batty Koda
Stranger



Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 192
Loc: england, yorkshire
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Re: libya is not iraq [Re: nice1]
#14158760 - 03/21/11 11:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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They are bombing Libya to get rid of Gaddafi, it has nothing to do with protecting civilians. Libya is the most developed country in AfricA, because of Gaddafi. If you get rid of him then the whole country will descend into bloody tribal warfare like most of Africa. The rebels were trained and backed by western intelligence agencies, they failed to unseat Gaddafi on their own so now the west is directly intervening on their side. These aren't civilians that Gaddafi is killing, the civilians are the ones the west has been bombing. Try storming 10 downing street or the white house with an AK-47 see if you're treated like a "civilian".
They want Gaddafi gone for the same reasons they unseated Mubarak and Ben Ali, he isn't playing ball with the Anglo-American financiers who own the western world.
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danielx
whatup!


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 6,500
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Quote:
Batty Koda said: They want Gaddafi gone for the same reasons they unseated Mubarak and Ben Ali, he isn't playing ball with the Anglo-American financiers who own the western world.
-------------------- Long live kratom
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pfxtc
RUEXP?


Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 21,166
Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Tchan909 said: Would you prefer the world to remain in the grips of an unstable and constantly shifting balance of power, periodically exploding into global holocausts?
I swear to God, people.
people are just dumb
they get a little idea in their head
and it sticks forever
damn hippies, peace isn't compatible human civilization. never has been. it's yet to be proven if any species is capable of peace
-------------------- koods said: Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus. Life-long trip report
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DeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
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Re: libya is not iraq [Re: pfxtc]
#14158821 - 03/21/11 11:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
pfxtc said:
Quote:
Tchan909 said: Would you prefer the world to remain in the grips of an unstable and constantly shifting balance of power, periodically exploding into global holocausts?
I swear to God, people.
people are just dumb
they get a little idea in their head
and it sticks forever
damn hippies, peace isn't compatible human civilization. never has been. it's yet to be proven if any species is capable of peace 
Peace is achievable no doubt. I cant stand how people argue the fact that oh well the world has never had peace so its not possible. Way to flush the future down the toilet.
better to stay positive than be complete cynical IMO.
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pfxtc
RUEXP?


Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 21,166
Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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It's being realistic.
Of course I'm for peace, but like I said it just aint gon be happenin.
The second a nation declares peace, the second another country comes in with the Iron Fist.
It's a fact of our existence, it's as needed as oxygen
-------------------- koods said: Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus. Life-long trip report
Edited by pfxtc (03/21/11 11:24 AM)
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DeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
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Re: libya is not iraq [Re: pfxtc]
#14158866 - 03/21/11 11:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
pfxtc said:
It's a fact of our existence, it's as needed as oxygen
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BeverageFace
Beer Baron


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 216
Loc: ontario, canada
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Quote:
DeadHearts said:
Quote:
pfxtc said:
Quote:
Tchan909 said: Would you prefer the world to remain in the grips of an unstable and constantly shifting balance of power, periodically exploding into global holocausts?
I swear to God, people.
people are just dumb
they get a little idea in their head
and it sticks forever
damn hippies, peace isn't compatible human civilization. never has been. it's yet to be proven if any species is capable of peace 
Peace is achievable no doubt. I cant stand how people argue the fact that oh well the world has never had peace so its not possible. Way to flush the future down the toilet.
better to stay positive than be complete cynical IMO.
peace isnt possible because peace isnt real. peace isnt something concrete, what is peace to you, isnt to someone else.
how do you not see this?
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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I'm not angry, I just have a major pet peeve about people expressing poorly-informed political opinions, and also about conspiracy theories. You seem better-informed than I had you pegged for, so I apologize if I came across as angry.
World peace is definitely possible, but it is not here yet and we have to pick our battles... I think we did well this time around.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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DeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
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Quote:
BeverageFace said:
Quote:
DeadHearts said:
Quote:
pfxtc said:
Quote:
Tchan909 said: Would you prefer the world to remain in the grips of an unstable and constantly shifting balance of power, periodically exploding into global holocausts?
I swear to God, people.
people are just dumb
they get a little idea in their head
and it sticks forever
damn hippies, peace isn't compatible human civilization. never has been. it's yet to be proven if any species is capable of peace 
Peace is achievable no doubt. I cant stand how people argue the fact that oh well the world has never had peace so its not possible. Way to flush the future down the toilet.
better to stay positive than be complete cynical IMO.
peace to you, isnt to someone else.
how do you not see this?
I can jive with what you said. But come on. There should be no need for war. As I see it as long as we have fake ass religion's in this world then there will be just that.
Sure people will not always agree and there will be fights between people but there is no reason we should still be at a point to where we feel war is necessary.
For me. Peace on earth is no war on earth. You cant stop sick demented people from being born and killing others and such for whatever reason they decide to do thos things. But to put so many resources and lives at stake, I just do not get it anymore.
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BeverageFace
Beer Baron


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 216
Loc: ontario, canada
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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so if that is your view of peace, how would you recommend dealing with a rogue nation that is threatening the peace of others? (not say this is libya, hypothetically)
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DeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
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Quote:
BeverageFace said: so if that is your view of peace, how would you recommend dealing with a rogue nation that is threatening the peace of others? (not say this is libya, hypothetically)
Well people have to defend themselves sure.
Ill add more when I return from work...
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: libya is not iraq [Re: Beanhead]
#14158959 - 03/21/11 12:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beanhead said: Yes the human race in unison would give us a lot of freedom.
It's never going to happen though, well, not in this lifetime 
Good. Because the human race in unison is a horror beyond measure. Welcome to the Borg.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
President Bush made the near-unilateral decision to invade and occupy Iraq right out of the blue. He had approximately 1% support of the international community and had no provocation for the attack.
yeah... what ever you say
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_1441 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1373 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_and_the_Iraq_War#Invasion
Quote:
Tchan909 said: I'm not angry, I just have a major pet peeve about people expressing poorly-informed political opinions
lol
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Nice doublespeak there Pris. The UN never approved of the use of force against Iraq, and Bush and his crew lied about Iraqi non-compliance with weapon inspectors to justify the invasion. Most of the world and most clearheaded Americans knew he was lying. The UK didn't care and represented the only significant international support we received for that war.
I feel like we've had this conversation before, and like you implied that sporadic military action against Iraq throughout the Clinton administration implied the inevitability of a full-scale invasion and occupation. Even if that's true, I still hold Bush and his crew accountable for the incompetency of the occupation and interim government.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Rebirtha
I really like bread




Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 5,680
Loc: over there
Last seen: 3 years, 19 days
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Whatever you believe that's fine. Facts are facts though, under US law this military action is illegal without the approval of Congress.
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Rebirtha
I really like bread




Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 5,680
Loc: over there
Last seen: 3 years, 19 days
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Re: libya is not iraq [Re: Rebirtha]
#14160420 - 03/21/11 05:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Also this isn't as simple as Evil leader verse all citizens. There are a very large group of loyalists who support Qhadafi.. Once this goes into an all out civil war, that is where the foreign entanglement problem comes in. You don't have to look far from Libya to see the past history of neighboring countries who have gone into civil trying to overthrow their government. Choosing sides in a civil war is not a good US policy, that is where this critique comes in. I hope you can see the rational point of view from those who have seen the consequences of interventionism except in extreme cases. The people who are against this aren't just stupid hippies as you would say, they might actually know a little history and don't want to repeat an Iran or Sudan situation. There are many countries we could be entering into right now with violent unruly leaders. Just look at everything going on Bahrain and Yemen. We could be in about 10 different countries right now if we wanted save the citizens. Congress would never approve this mission, and this is an illegal war act with out congresses approval. History shows, these type of illegal fast acting militarized humanitarian missions often cause long drawn out wars.
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Redthumb
Fungal Prodigy



Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 275
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: libya is not iraq [Re: Rebirtha]
#14160465 - 03/21/11 05:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
I swear to God, people.
Thats the problem. You still believe in fairy tales.
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