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soldatheero
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A Solid Case of Rincarnation
#14152513 - 03/20/11 06:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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This is a very interesting short video about a boy who seems to have knowledge of his past life.
What do you make of this? If you think reincarnation is impossible how do you explain this case? The professors explaination at the end was pretty lame IMO, almost laughable. He rationalizes it claiming you need to "rely on the facts on common sense" but the facts and the truth is common sense are pointing to the existence of last lives. It is only the fact that he assumes rebirth to be impossible that he cannot see the obvious and hides under the cover of "common sense". Nonsense
The interview says "this is a classic example of Science vs faith". How do they figure? Why do they think science assumes rebirth is impossible? What so-called fact disproves rebirth?
Anyway watch the video it's cool as hell tell me, what your thoughts.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
Edited by soldatheero (03/20/11 06:32 AM)
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Icelander
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14152619 - 03/20/11 07:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Had they not proclaimed the existence of god and the reality of his promise of our eternal spirit I might have gotten more interested. There is no way to know if the parents are lying and or created this by programing this young boy and anyone who would draw any conclusion from this has a bias imo.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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soldatheero
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14152666 - 03/20/11 07:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Oops mean't to post part 1.
Quote:
There is no way to know if the parents are lying
Yeah thats what it always seems to come down to with the super-natural, either lying or human folly. Sure there is no way to know but you can still rationalize it and ask yourself, what are the odds that they are lying and what are the odds they are telling the truth? What is the motive for them to lie? They seem completely sincere to me. I see no reason to think they are making it all up. This is just one case what about the thousands of other cases? all lying for no obvious reason? When do you reach the point where doubt is no longer reasonable.
Quote:
Had they not proclaimed the existence of god and the reality of his promise of our eternal spirit
Thats just her 2cents or how she makes sense of it. Don't really think shes trying to "sell" anything.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Icelander
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14152857 - 03/20/11 09:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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what are the odds that they are lying and what are the odds they are telling the truth? What is the motive for them to lie? They seem completely sincere to me.
I would rather ask what are the odds that you really need to believe this.
I think, from observation of myself and the world that people are constantly lying to themselves and others. Human's motives for lying is usually attention seeking. Politicians seem completely sincere to most people yet to me they are obviously lying like a rug. I'm guessing the difference comes back to that need to believe cause really I can't see how anyone in their right mind believes these guys yet they do and in droves and even if experience proves them wrong every time.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14153605 - 03/20/11 12:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I would rather ask what are the odds that you really need to believe this.
About 100%.
We know parents never lie, which is why I still believe in Santa.
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DieCommie

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My parents never lied to me about santa, and I am grateful for that. I wont lie to my kids about it either.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: DieCommie]
#14153647 - 03/20/11 12:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Neither did mine. They told me the part about the chimney was nonsense - and that Santa would just break in a window.
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soldatheero
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Hah so you think the whole story is a scheme to trick people into believing that reincarnation is real. Weird
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14153806 - 03/20/11 01:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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100% known and proven facts:
1. People lie. 2. People are easily deceived. 3. People believe things for which there is no evidence.
Unproven: Reincarnation is real.
Applying Occams' Razor, a rational being must go with the former. Too simple.
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4896744
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14153837 - 03/20/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said: Hah so you think the whole story is a scheme to trick people into believing that reincarnation is real. Weird
There are lots of people from every single religion to have existed who claim to have experienced "proof" of their belief.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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HeavyToilet
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14153864 - 03/20/11 01:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said: Hah so you think the whole story is a scheme to trick people into believing that reincarnation is real. Weird
I think it's the conclusion most rational people would come to.
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Icelander
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14153925 - 03/20/11 01:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said: Hah so you think the whole story is a scheme to trick people into believing that reincarnation is real. Weird
Not weird at all if you put stock in the ideas of death anxiety.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14154048 - 03/20/11 02:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Do you think you might expand on this novel concept?
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Icelander
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been there done that about a million times
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NetDiver
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14154213 - 03/20/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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There has been quite a large body of work done on people who seem to have memories of past lives. Carl Sagan even said that the evidence warranted much more in-depth scientific investigation.
I myself haven't read the accounts, as the books are massive and expensive. I'm skeptical, because as OC said, it's proven that people lie, but not proven that reincarnation is true. However, there's a lot we don't know about consciousness and memory, so I'm not totally willing to dismiss it.
Occam's razor is useful for deciding between two competing scientific theories, but it's not infallible.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14154236 - 03/20/11 02:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: been there done that about a million times
In past lives?
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g00ru
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if you gain self knowledge reincarnation or an afterlife of some sort is just plain common sense. there's nowhere to go!
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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soldatheero
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Quote:
it's proven that people lie, but not proven that reincarnation is true.
Sure people lie but that does that really mean it's rational to automatically believe\assume it is a lie. In the court of law its not. An eye witness account is not just automatically assumed to be a lie just because "people lie". You assess how likely it is they are lying based on whether or not there is a motive to lie. I see no motive for these people to lie and make this story up and I do not sense any acting going on here, at the least they are sincere IMO.
Not saying the video is proof of rebirth it is not, it is merely suggestive of rebirth and rebirth IMO is the most logical explaination. At the least it should make you wonder, if it doesn't you are likely very closed minded.
Quote:
I think it's the conclusion most rational people would come to.
How does rational\logic make rebirth impossible?
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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ApJunkie
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: g00ru]
#14154538 - 03/20/11 03:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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well assuming that the parents AREN'T attention seeking liars and that the kid is legitimately remembering those things, then this video makes seriously more curious about the afterlife. I was never exactly scared of death, but now I'm almost like excited for it, like learning a secret.
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ApJunkie
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14154550 - 03/20/11 03:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said: it is merely suggestive of rebirth and rebirth IMO is the most logical explaination. At the least it should make you wonder, if it doesn't you are likely very closed minded.
Actually I don't think rebirth is a logical explanation in the slightest. I think the most logical outcome is that when you die, it's over with forever.
That said, that video certainly made me question that belief
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Icelander
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: g00ru]
#14154570 - 03/20/11 03:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said: if you gain self knowledge reincarnation or an afterlife of some sort is just plain common sense. there's nowhere to go!
That's just plain bull shit. You continue to make such statements without ever a shred of evidence. 
From reading your posts it's easy to tell, common sense is not your strong suit.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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soldatheero
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14154574 - 03/20/11 03:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well if the story in the video is true then you cannot ignore the evidence and logical explaination is rebirth, that or collective memory or something.
Quote:
I think the most logical outcome is that when you die
What we consider to be logical, possible or impossible is determined by our fundemental beliefs or perception of what reality is. Sometimes we think something is rational but it's really not and vice-versa.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero] 1
#14154578 - 03/20/11 03:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Without a grounded perception of this reality you end up head on into oncoming traffic.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grapefruit
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: g00ru] 1
#14154762 - 03/20/11 04:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Certainty in an afterlife is a nice way to stay comfortably asleep all day.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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HeavyToilet
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14154867 - 03/20/11 04:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
Quote:
I think it's the conclusion most rational people would come to.
How does rational\logic make rebirth impossible?
It doesn't, but due to the fact that a lot of people are willing to lie to get what they want, it seems more reasonable to think that this is the case rather than to believe such an extraordinary claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and there's certainly not enough evidence to really show anything.
And rather than by pushing their beliefs about reincarnation, they could be trying to push some other unknown agenda. No one really knows. Perhaps they think it might get them respect, attention, possibly money? Who knows.
Edited by HeavyToilet (03/20/11 07:06 PM)
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NetDiver
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14154944 - 03/20/11 05:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ApJunkie said: Actually I don't think rebirth is a logical explanation in the slightest. I think the most logical outcome is that when you die, it's over with forever.
That's not particularly logical. The fact that we're here now means that something can and will come from nothing.
The question is- what?
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Freedom
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14154993 - 03/20/11 05:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said: Sure there is no way to know but you can still rationalize it and ask yourself, what are the odds that they are lying and what are the odds they are telling the truth?
The question I ask is what are the odds that there will be parents who lie about this kind of thing? Pretty close to 100%.
Hoaxes do and will continue to happen

I am also more suspicious because the boy appears to not have talked to the piliots sister or war buddy or have revealed previously unknown information or even information that the parents would not be able to access through research.
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learningtofly
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: NetDiver]
#14155030 - 03/20/11 05:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
ApJunkie said: Actually I don't think rebirth is a logical explanation in the slightest. I think the most logical outcome is that when you die, it's over with forever.
That's not particularly logical. The fact that we're here now means that something can and will come from nothing.
The question is- what?
Who says we came from nothing? And as for reincarnation, seems to me like a way to justify social stratification.
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Icelander
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Well of course the energy that makes up our form goes on forever maybe. However the consciousness of the form and the form itself likely does not for us or ant or bacteria.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NetDiver
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Quote:
learningtofly said: Who says we came from nothing?
Where did we come from?
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: NetDiver]
#14156163 - 03/20/11 08:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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There's this stork, see?
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: NetDiver]
#14156175 - 03/20/11 09:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sounds like religious weirdos. If he really was the pilot he should be able to recall how many bitches he fucked at war, what kind of sex positions he liked how his wife liked the cock ect ect. He should be able to recall EVERYTHING from this "past-life" just because some kid talks about being a pilot an got shot here and here doesn't mean anything except he knows how to play act like he is a pilot, and some religious whacko parents who believe in an afterlife and want to propel this "after life" thought via death anxiety saying their son was reincarnated as evidence to support their religious beliefs is bullshit.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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OrgoneConclusion
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For anyone truly interested, this was debunked here and on JREF before - and NO, I am not going to find a link for you.
The kid got much of his info from an aviation museum as a very young boy who memorized the placards and from books, and the whole RinkyCarnation thang came years later.
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Cognitive_Shift
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Little kids like to make believe they are other people...??? SHOCKING! But his mom saw all the TV he watched and the books he read!
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
Edited by Cognitive_Shift (03/20/11 10:08 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
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Of course! Case closed.
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g00ru
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Grapefruit]
#14156765 - 03/20/11 10:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said: Certainty in an afterlife is a nice way to stay comfortably asleep all day.
...yeah, only if you think about it a lot though...i keep my eye on the prize
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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lolwut
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: g00ru]
#14157372 - 03/21/11 12:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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that kid is doin' thangs for sure
-------------------- Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...
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1tokeovrtheline
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: lolwut]
#14157575 - 03/21/11 01:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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actually there are many "solid cases" of reincarnation like this, in fact dalai llamas are believed to be the continual reincarnations of the previous llamas so each new llama is put through tests to prove his identity. The current dalai llama knew all sorts of things about the previous llama, asking for possessions of his and refusing fake duplicates, calling the previous llamas relatives by name though he had never met them, etc
of course you can chalk all that up to superstition, etc, but there are many interesting cases that show up in the news in the east, (most of the more recent ones I've seen are from india).
really though it never is 100% irrefutable proof, and an element of belief must come into it like any supernatural type event or supposed miracle or whatever, and even then it could be something else but everyone assumes reincarnation, like idk maybe they're just some kind of psychic or something
not to knock your thread or anything, its just that buddha describes reincarnation strictly as a possibility not a sure thing, and stresses the importance of the preservation of truth and ultimately admitting our ignorance, especially when it comes to what happens when we die and heaven and hell and god and all that sort of religious stuff.
I personally think that once you die you basically trip out, go into your mind, going through each thought until finally you get down to the end and dissolve into nothing, if you are enlightened this entire process will have no impedance and your death will be optimally beautiful and fruitful, your life and death helping the world the most it can like the buddha's
--------------------
Music, business as usual Mi' spliff and Guiness as usual Highgrade we puffin as usual Fight down the system as usual The system fight we down as usual The cops dem a watch we as usual And a we a watch the cops as usual
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lolwut
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Actually, the Buddha describes reincarnation as a definate thing, and in rationalising it out of existence you are immediately hindering your possible progress on the path. He also says dont believe anything he says unless it works for you.
Google it lol.
Intuition would play a large part though, and many spiritual teachers say that everyone is psychic, just most people don't realise it. Not spiritual teachers as in channelers or people who talk to the dead, but spiritual teachers as in enlightened world teachers who speak for the benefit of everyone. Another thing that most frauds dont talk about is psychic attack - the fact that upon realising you're psychic, you immediately become in tune with all the negative energies that are released by your enemies towards you, and the fact that once this happens its more important to cut yourself off from the ones who drain you, before you try and gain more power - otherwise the people draining you can steal your power and try and use it agaisnt you.
This stuff is actually very important and its not that much to read if you want to protect yourself and your loved ones.
http://ramaquotes.com/html/power.html http://ramaquotes.com/html/personal_power.html http://ramaquotes.com/html/gaining_power.html http://ramaquotes.com/html/abusing_power.html http://ramaquotes.com/html/psychic_self_defense.html http://ramaquotes.com/html/places_power.html http://ramaquotes.com/html/castaneda_tonal_nagual.html
There is a very fine line between abusing power, and using it to defend yourself, which is often why a lot of people dont get much power.
-------------------- Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...
Edited by lolwut (03/21/11 02:24 AM)
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1tokeovrtheline
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: lolwut]
#14157717 - 03/21/11 02:31 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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well it depends on which canon of the tipitaka you use. The pali canon has many parts where he explains that you can not know if reincarnation is real or not, but basically that it is still a good model to think about yourself, death and rebirth, etc. and of course he was raised a hindu, but he expressed doubt that there is any type of reincarnation or god or anything like that, and above all stressed the importance to not become too attached to opinions of these types of things as either true or false
If you don't believe me I'll dig up the numerous examples of him talking about it
--------------------
Music, business as usual Mi' spliff and Guiness as usual Highgrade we puffin as usual Fight down the system as usual The system fight we down as usual The cops dem a watch we as usual And a we a watch the cops as usual
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soldatheero
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Quote:
and above all stressed the importance to not become too attached to opinions of these types of things
.
This is true for how the Buddha dealt with the question of "is there a self" but I don't buy he said this about rebirth. It undermines the entire philosophy to not accept rebirth.
Quote:
but he expressed doubt that there is any type of reincarnation
He really didn't, quite the opposite he said had first had experience of 1000s of past lives. He also gave analogies and teachings to help one understand how rebirth is possible. Think of the burning flame analogy.
""Through many a birth wandered I, seeking the builder of this house. Sorrow full indeed is birth again and again."
If there was no rebirth there would be no need to escape samsara as you would escape it naturally after your short life in this body. It undermines the entire religion.
When you truly grasp the heart sutra the reality of rebirth is completely clear and you can "see" it's truth for yourself.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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soldatheero
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14157830 - 03/21/11 03:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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"Besides the very interesting Jataka stories, which deal with his previous lives and which are of ethical importance, the Majjhima Nikaya and the Anguttara Nikaya make incidental references to some of the past lives of the Buddha.
In the Ghatikara Sutta the Buddha relates to the Venerable Ananda that he was born as Jotipala, in the time of the Buddha Kassapa, his immediate predecessor. The Anathapindikovada Sutta describes a nocturnal visit of Anathapindika to the Buddha, immediately after his rebirth as a Deva. In the Anguttara Nikaya,' the Buddha alludes to a past birth as Pacetana the wheelwright. In the samyutta Nikaya the Buddha cites the names of some Buddha's who preceded him. An unusual direct reference to departed ones appears in the Parinibbana Sutta. The Venerable Ananda desired to know from the Buddha the future state of several persons who had died in a particular village. The Buddha patiently described their destinies. Such instances could easily be multiplied from the Tipitaka to show that the Buddha did expound the doctrine of rebirth as a verifiable truth." Following the Buddha's instructions, his disciples also developed this retro-cognitive knowledge and were able to read a limited, though vast, number of their past lives." http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-buddha.htm
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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johnm214


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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14157914 - 03/21/11 04:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
The interview says "this is a classic example of Science vs faith". How do they figure? Why do they think science assumes rebirth is impossible? What so-called fact disproves rebirth?
An even better question would be concerning your premise that for science vs faith to be an accurate description that science must assume false or disprove the disputed fact. I see no reason why this should be the case and indeed the classic examples of such don't concern matters which science has disproved: creationism, god's existance, heaven, afterlife, miracles, celestial teapots, et cet
It seems you're arguing against a straw man here: science concerns itself with that which is demonstrable and adopts the null hypothesis at all times, with the burden upon the claimaint to establish a departure from this presumption. That the claims made are not proven yet are maintained makes this, indeed, antithetical to scientific philosophy and a matter of science vs faith.
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ApJunkie said: well assuming that the parents AREN'T attention seeking liars and that the kid is legitimately remembering those things, then this video makes seriously more curious about the afterlife
Why would the parents not being attention seeking liars give any credence to the claims? As others have said before your post: people are dumb, believe dumb things, and are not prone to think logically. The parents may be completely genuine and yet still be promoting what is a falsehood. There is a reason why science prefers blinded experiments, and it is percisely because the confirmation bias of the investigator leads to the introduction of bias: both through a desire to confirm their beliefs and through communication with the subject about information that should not be disclosed (i.e. the "counting horse" classic example of nonverbal cues confounding an otherwise-reliable experiment due to the parties not being blinded).
Most of these types of things of any notoriety may have good-faith claimants. That the person truely believes Jesus is in their french toast, the aliens abducted them, god spoke to him, or any number of other things does not provide any indicia of reliability as to their conclusions.
This is rudimentary grade-school level science, and one of the things I think is far more valuable for peopel to learn rather than the usual fare in secondary science education (memorizing bullshit rather than learning what science is and how to do it).
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soldatheero
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: johnm214]
#14157988 - 03/21/11 05:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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That the claims made are not proven yet are maintained makes this, indeed, antithetical to scientific philosophy and a matter of science vs faith.
I disagree your conclusion is based on the premise that science proves theories. In science tests are designed to disprove, not prove, theories. Testing a theory simply tests to see if the theory can survive the test. A theory simply retains its viability if it survives a test. One could never, even in principle, devise a test for a theory that would verify it beyond all doubt.
"science concerns itself with that which is demonstrable and adopts the null hypothesis at all times"
As of yet science has in no way disproved this theory so I do not see how it is a "battle between science and faith". Like you said science takes the null hypothesis yet the person saying "science vs faith" seems to come from the viewpoint that current science rules rebirth to be impossible, which it does not. Anyway this is what I thought was meant by "science vs faith".
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Icelander
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: lolwut]
#14158014 - 03/21/11 05:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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lolwut said: Actually, the Buddha describes reincarnation as a definate thing, and in rationalising it out of existence you are immediately hindering your possible progress on the path. He also says dont believe anything he says unless it works for you.
Google it lol.
Intuition would play a large part though, and many spiritual teachers say that everyone is psychic, just most people don't realise it. Not spiritual teachers as in channelers or people who talk to the dead, but spiritual teachers as in enlightened world teachers who speak for the benefit of everyone. Another thing that most frauds dont talk about is psychic attack - the fact that upon realising you're psychic, you immediately become in tune with all the negative energies that are released by your enemies towards you, and the fact that once this happens its more important to cut yourself off from the ones who drain you, before you try and gain more power - otherwise the people draining you can steal your power and try and use it agaisnt you.
This stuff is actually very important and its not that much to read if you want to protect yourself and your loved ones.
http://ramaquotes.com/html/power.html http://ramaquotes.com/html/personal_power.html http://ramaquotes.com/html/gaining_power.html http://ramaquotes.com/html/abusing_power.html http://ramaquotes.com/html/psychic_self_defense.html http://ramaquotes.com/html/places_power.html http://ramaquotes.com/html/castaneda_tonal_nagual.html
There is a very fine line between abusing power, and using it to defend yourself, which is often why a lot of people dont get much power.
NO MORE BLAH BLAH BLAH!
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14158016 - 03/21/11 05:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
Quote:
That the claims made are not proven yet are maintained makes this, indeed, antithetical to scientific philosophy and a matter of science vs faith.
I disagree your conclusion is based on the premise that science proves theories. In science tests are designed to disprove, not prove, theories. Testing a theory simply tests to see if the theory can survive the test. A theory simply retains its viability if it survives a test. One could never, even in principle, devise a test for a theory that would verify it beyond all doubt.
"science concerns itself with that which is demonstrable and adopts the null hypothesis at all times"
As of yet science has in no way disproved this theory so I do not see how it is a "battle between science and faith". Like you said science takes the null hypothesis yet the person saying "science vs faith" seems to come from the viewpoint that current science rules rebirth to be impossible, which it does not. Anyway this is what I thought was meant by "science vs faith".
You are going to believe in reincarnation no matter what the outcome of this thread.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14158033 - 03/21/11 05:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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At least he totally failed to grok John's simple and straight-forward post. That's something, I guess.
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soldatheero
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Quote:
You are going to believe in reincarnation no matter what the outcome of this thread.
No one has really analyzed or critiqued the video in depth, nothing has been offered to debunk the video other then the tired old "people are dumb" and "people lie". Pretty weak.
Quote:
At least he totally failed to grok John's simple and straight-forward post. That's something, I guess
The narrator says "what we have is a classic contact of faith vs science. Hard facts against beliefs that cannot be explained"
What hard facts??
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14158069 - 03/21/11 06:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hard fact that there are no hard facts and therefore nothing to talk about.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Icelander
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14158080 - 03/21/11 06:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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No one has really analyzed or critiqued the video in depth, nothing has been offered to debunk the video other then the tired old "people are dumb" and "people lie". Pretty weak.
I think most people here have give plausible explanations that go far beyond a statement like. "Why would people lie about this?"
You've proven yourself to be a true believer here. The only evidence you might except is if god came down and said "I'm going fry your ass if you don't stfu".
I suggest you go on believing if it makes you feel good.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Grapefruit] 1
#14158093 - 03/21/11 06:21 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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This is a case of wearing the debunker out as this SPECIFIC case has been debunked so many times already, but if the TBers keep bringing it up...
Summation: the kid had books on aviation as well as having been to an air museum BEFORE he recited a single factoid. Basically he had a good memory and his parents were impressed.
ALL of the rest is baseless assumption and major conclusion-jumping.
The End!
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14158097 - 03/21/11 06:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
The only evidence you might except is if god came down and said "I'm going fry your ass if you don't stfu".
Didn't you already do that?
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14158105 - 03/21/11 06:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I think most people here have give plausible explanations that go far beyond a statement like. "Why would people lie about this?"
Yeah, but you have completely failed to explain how one human could recite a fact that other humans also had access to.
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soldatheero
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Well it's more then just a couple random facts you can find it books. You have to explain his emotional attachment to the death of the James that died in WW2 and why does he think he was that James? Why the violent nightmares? Or if hes not sincere why is he making it up? I guess you think its all just random?
Some of the facts are also rather detailed such as; where on the plane it was hit and the location of where it landed. However I agree it is true the facts good possibily be explained by books.
Theres always the possibility it is all fake somehow or another I just believe that is not the most likely explaination because I do not come from the preconceived idea that rebirth is impossible.Quote:
You've proven yourself to be a true believer here. The only evidence you might except is if god came down and said "I'm going fry your ass if you don't stfu
The video never confirmed for me that rebirth is real I had believed in it long before the video.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Icelander
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14158171 - 03/21/11 07:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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How come so few remember past lives like this? If he can why aren't there tons of even better examples?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (03/21/11 07:15 AM)
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Icelander
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14158191 - 03/21/11 07:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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The video never confirmed for me that rebirth is real I had believed in it long before the video.
Right and in all your time this is it. This is the best piece of "evidence" you can come up with.
IMO that's not very rational basing beliefs on so little. I'm thinking death anxiety is more likely at work here.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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soldatheero
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14158205 - 03/21/11 07:31 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I do not know for certain but I have some ideas. I think the main reason we do not remember past lives is because our new brain prevents us. In a sense our new brain wants to remember it's own experiences. We are in a completely different environment and state of mind so there is nothing to trigger past memory. It's difficult to remember what we were doing a few years ago, what about a 100 years ago? Perhaps it is something t hat occurs after death that makes it near impossible to remember.
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If he can why aren't there tons of even better examples?
There are many cases, way more then people think, its not like you are going to see it on the news. I have an uncle who claims to remember a past life, he does hates to about it as my family is catholic.
I have a friend is quite a rational thinker and very intellectual, I told him I think rebirth is real and he said he agrees. He gets an irrational overwhelming sense of fear when hes around subways and considers that perhaps it's because of a past life. Rebirth could work to explain things like this.. child prodigies for instance.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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soldatheero
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14158217 - 03/21/11 07:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Right and in all your time this is it. This is the best piece of "evidence" you can come up with.
Hm no not even close. The primary reason I believe in eternal life is because I do not believe that consciousness "emerges" from the brain. I believe mind is the cause and matter is the effect not the other way around. Rebirth is an implication of this belief.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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learningtofly
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: NetDiver]
#14158260 - 03/21/11 08:03 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
learningtofly said: Who says we came from nothing?
Where did we come from?
If I knew that I'd be praised the world over.
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Icelander
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14158285 - 03/21/11 08:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I do not know for certain but I have some ideas. I think the main reason we do not remember past lives is because our new brain prevents us. In a sense our new brain wants to remember it's own experiences. We are in a completely different environment and state of mind so there is nothing to trigger past memory. It's difficult to remember what we were doing a few years ago, what about a 100 years ago? Perhaps it is something t hat occurs after death that makes it near impossible to remember.
Seems like your beliefs are based on supposition and guess without real evidence. This is why RAW said "What the thinker thinks, the prover proves." To hold a firm belief based on primarily guesswork is, imo, what's wrong with homo sapiens in general and why our world is so fucked up.
No real evidence is needed but instead the desire for something to be true. Carry on.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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1tokeovrtheline
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14158486 - 03/21/11 09:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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the process of death and rebirth isn't always so literal-the point is to end the continuing cycle of death and rebirth yes, but he comments on how everything is subject to death and rebirth, even things which are not living, the quote "life is suffering" can be translated "everything is change", everything begins and ends and this cycle is infinite so the point of buddhism is to detach from all these changing forms and end the cycle of "death and rebirth" but not necessarily literally the cycle of reincarnation-some buddhists believe in it, some do not, some are basically agnostic. The point is detachment from all changing forms because staking your happiness in a changing form will unavoidably bring suffering when that form changes, instead happiness comes from the dhamma, the one unchanging sublime truth ubiquitous to both everything and nothing, it is known in quantuum physics as the unified field.
buddha cites over and over and over again that detachment from opinion is an essential part of the path to enlightenment and the one which is the most difficult to overcome entirely, he states that we can not know if there is anything beyond death but that enlightenment has such and such benefits IF there is an afterlife/heaven&hell or IF there is reincarnation, but goes on to explain that it has benefits visable in this life if that is not so.
Basically the point of buddhism is to end suffering through detachment, the middle path/noble eightfold path, and the four noble truths, it is to reach the sublime peace of enlightenment, it is to live and die for the right reasons, etc etc but it is not all about reincarnation for all buddhists. it is for some and I understand that, but do no say that the point of buddhism is undeniably to end the cycle of reincarnation, because not all buddhists interpret it that way.
Here are a few quotes I got, but I lent out the book that I have seen most of them in (bikkhu bodhi's In the Buddha's Words:An Anthology of Discourses from the Pali Canon) so it'll be a few days or maybe a week or two before I can look through it, but I can get a loooooottttttttttt of quotes on this if you want to read more
"But Master Gotama, in what way is there the preservation of truth? How does one preserve truth? We ask Master Gotama about the preservation of truth.
"If a person has faith, Bharadvaja, he preserves truth when he says: 'My faith is thus'; but he does not yet come to the definite conclusion: 'Only this is true, anything else is wrong.' In this way, Bharadvaja, there is the preservation of truth; in this way he preserves truth; in this way we describe the preservation of truth. But as yet there is no discovery of truth.
Majjhima Nikaya 95:15 (Canki Sutta)
Vaccha, the speculative view that the world is eternal is a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a vacillation of views, a fetter of views. It is beset by suffering, by vexation, by despair, and by fever, and it does not lead to disenchantment, to dispassion to cessation, to peace, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to Nibbana. The speculative view that the world is not eternal … that the world is finite … that the world is infinite … that the soul and the body are the same … that the soul is one thing and the body another … that after death a Tathagata exists … that after death a Tathagata does not exist … that after death a Tathagata both exists and cdoes not exist … that after death a Tathagata neither exist nor does not exist is a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a vacillation of views, a fetter of views. It is beset by suffering, by vexation, by despair, and by fever, and it does not lead to disenchantment, to dispassion to cessation, to peace, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to Nibbana. Seeing this danger, I do not take up any of these speculative views.
Majjhima Nikaya 72:14 (Aggivacchagotta Sutta – To Vacchagotta on Fire)
"In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then believe them to be true."
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Music, business as usual Mi' spliff and Guiness as usual Highgrade we puffin as usual Fight down the system as usual The system fight we down as usual The cops dem a watch we as usual And a we a watch the cops as usual
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Icelander
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So if the Buddha wasn't sure at all what makes the OP so convinced?
These types of things, imo, are best left out of this forum due to the completely speculative nature of them. I respond to them in the same way I respond to any other religious superstition. And it is superstition. Because even if true it's an unknown as far as anyone can show.
The only thing one can actually demonstrate is a bias and that has been fully demonstrated here.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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johnm214


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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14159148 - 03/21/11 12:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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soldatheero said: You have to explain his emotional attachment to the death of the James that died in WW2 and why does he think he was that James?
uh, we do?
No, the burden is upon the claimaint to demonstrate the veracity of their claim.
In any case, reincarnation is a very common beleif shared by most world religions and many people worldwide. It is very conceivable that the child has been exposed to this culture through their parents.
As for his motivation: the parents likely encourage his beliefs by responding with attention, praise, and wonder, making the child feel valued and special. The parents, in turn, reinforce what they want to believe and have a vested interest in their feelings of uniqueness and value as to their son being substantiated: a classic case of confirmation bias.
None of this matters though: its your burden to demonstrate the claims true, but the possible answers are so rudimentary and have been discussed so many times before, I don't see the persuasivness of this argument.
Quote:
Why the violent nightmares? Or if hes not sincere why is he making it up? I guess you think its all just random?
Who has said this?
Several times now people have explained exactly why a child would do such a thing, why parents would encourage and want such a thing, why larger society would encourage and praise such a thing, and none of it has anything to do with randomness. Its hard not to take this suggestion as just a dishonest straw man argument, as I don't see how you could get the impression that this is the explanation favored by those who disagree with you.
Lots of children have violent nightmares: I did and still do as do most people. Dreams come in all varieties. Additionally, the emotional charecter of dreams and the recollection of them lends to confirmation bias and fabrication. In any case: anything you think about can be thought of in a dream: that the child is conditioned to beleive these things and gets praise and attention as a result is sure to make the notion a large-enough portion of his psyche that it is bound to enter his dreams.
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Some of the facts are also rather detailed such as; where on the plane it was hit and the location of where it landed. However I agree it is true the facts good possibily be explained by books.
Please explain the revelation of these facts and the protocol used to test them and determine they are accurate. Do these, again, rely upon the parents confirming facts they allready know (just like with the counting horse I refrenced earlier)? Do these concern details of a case the child allready knows? What portion of answers are on-target and what are not (are we hearing all the responses or a representative sample, or is their essentially no methodology and the parents just repeat the "hits" a'la cold reading style- ignoring the implausible or disliked 'visions').
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Theres always the possibility it is all fake somehow or another I just believe that is not the most likely explaination because I do not come from the preconceived idea that rebirth is impossible.
This answer seems to betray no small amount of hubris in your outlook: you say that you believe these things because you lack preconceived ideas, suggesting that those who disagree with you do so due to having these preconceived ideas rather than a genuine disagreement with you. You seem like a reasonable guy, and I don't mean to make you out to be not, but this is the classic reply of the conspiracy theorists and other wackos: always appealing to the ad hominem/straw man argument that those who disagree do so due to reactionary, hidebound, perspectives intolerant of novel ideas.
Unless you've got some decent evidence for this claim, I don't think its very helpful to maintain it.
Quote:
soldatheero said:
Quote:
You are going to believe in reincarnation no matter what the outcome of this thread.
No one has really analyzed or critiqued the video in depth, nothing has been offered to debunk the video other then the tired old "people are dumb" and "people lie". Pretty weak.
Quote:
At least he totally failed to grok John's simple and straight-forward post. That's something, I guess
The narrator says "what we have is a classic contact of faith vs science. Hard facts against beliefs that cannot be explained"
What hard facts??
a) You now equivocate and shift the objection from the "faith vs science" argument to "hard facts against beleifs". Which do you want to speak of, and could we please avoid preliminary throw-away arguments that you'll just discard or change as convieniant? As to the merits, the previous posters have sufficiently answered this: the hard facts lack substantiation of the supernatural claim vs a mix of confirmation bias, kid seeking to please, and the "clever hans counting horse" effect.
b) Why does anyone need to analyze the video? Videos are generally 98% bullshit hype and slow, factually sparse narratives full of conclusory garbage lacking substantiation. If you have a case, then make it. I didn't even watch the video: I'm aware of these claims and think, like Orgone, I'm aware of this specific case as well. Nothing in this discussion requires the critical observer to dig up nonsense from a video I suspect is written to entertain rather than to clearly convey facts and methodological details of the investigation.
There's a reason people get convinced by videos yet fail to relay the reasoning that was so convincing about reptillian plots, illuminanti overlords, or xenu's treachery: they become convinced due to poor thinking and emotional investment in the video. Without some knowledge or aptitude in critical examination of these claims (or knowledge of scientific methodology) it can be difficult to critically assess the merits of claims like these, and succumb to emotional beleifs: something that seems to happen often judging by the inability of those convinced to explain the basis for their beliefs (even going so far as to create a forum where they supposedly cannot be disagreed with- banning anyone who violates this unwritten rule)
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Icelander
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: johnm214]
#14159182 - 03/21/11 12:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Nicely done. You obviously have more patience than I have
Unfortunately I think (from past experience with this poster) that this will have little effect on his current belief system. There is little that seems open minded about it at all.
But maybe I'm wrong about that. How could anyone use that OP as some sort of hard evidence of reincarnation if they didn't somehow believe that it really was hard evidence? Then imo, we are dealing with a lack of critical thinking rather than an closed mind.
My guess is that it's some of both.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14159346 - 03/21/11 01:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I would back you up on this if you hadn't told me in PMs that you were previously Erik the Destroyer and Attila the Hun.
Just sayin'...
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soldatheero
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: johnm214]
#14159363 - 03/21/11 01:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I never really intended to it to be hard factual unfalsifiable evidence of reincarnation. All posts have been addressing the video as if it is suppose to be so the jist of every comment is - 1) people lie 2) No way to prove there not lying 3) therefore the video means nothing. I should have named it "Case SUGGESTIVE of reincarnation".
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Unfortunately I think (from past experience with this poster) that this will have little effect on his current belief system
Hes done a good job of arguing that this video is in no way "proof" of rebirth, that is about it. Why would that change my belief system? It's as if your suggesting my beliefs depend upon this video. If he fully proved this video is a freud should that mean I should change my beliefs? No.
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As for his motivation: the parents likely encourage his beliefs by responding with attention, praise, and wonder, making the child feel valued and special. The parents, in turn, reinforce what they want to believe and have a vested interest in their feelings of uniqueness and value as to their son being substantiated: a classic case of confirmation bias.
They didn't encourage his beliefs in fact they were clueless until they slowly connected the dots. They did not reinforce what they wanted to belief, the father was basically appalled at the concept that he was a reincarnation.. "no way I don't believe in this stuff." Eventually he delved into it to get to the bottom of what was going on and slowly starte to believe due to considerable evidence.
"Lots of children have violent nightmares: I did and still do as do most people. Dreams come in all varieties. Additionally, the emotional character of dreams and the recollection of them lends to confirmation bias and fabrication. In any case: anything you think about can be thought of in a dream: that the child is conditioned to believe these things and gets praise and attention as a result is sure to make the notion a large-enough portion of his psyche that it is bound to enter his dreams."
The same nightmare about being trapped in a burning air plane, going on for months? Your theory his parents conditioned him into believing the story so it is manifesting in his dreams? See to me it just seems ridiculous.
" If you have a case, then make it. I didn't even watch the video:" Like I said I did not mean for this to be a huge scientific paper I want to publish in a journal as proof of rebirth, thats impossible.
I intended you guys to watch the video and analyze it, explaining why you think they are liars or sincere but mislead, or the story is true. You haven't watched the video so you have done an unsatisfying job of doing that.
Only Freedom gave an actual example from the video which exemplified why he was suspicious it was a hoax.
For the record I watched this video years ago and never took it as hard evidence of reincarnation. &Like I said I do not consider it as hard evidence, I do however at the least accept the possibility that it could be. I simply do not know for certain.
Fun stuff
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14159380 - 03/21/11 01:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Icelander said:
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soldatheero said:
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That the claims made are not proven yet are maintained makes this, indeed, antithetical to scientific philosophy and a matter of science vs faith.
I disagree your conclusion is based on the premise that science proves theories. In science tests are designed to disprove, not prove, theories. Testing a theory simply tests to see if the theory can survive the test. A theory simply retains its viability if it survives a test. One could never, even in principle, devise a test for a theory that would verify it beyond all doubt.
"science concerns itself with that which is demonstrable and adopts the null hypothesis at all times"
As of yet science has in no way disproved this theory so I do not see how it is a "battle between science and faith". Like you said science takes the null hypothesis yet the person saying "science vs faith" seems to come from the viewpoint that current science rules rebirth to be impossible, which it does not. Anyway this is what I thought was meant by "science vs faith".
You are going to believe in reincarnation no matter what the outcome of this thread.
Yep, because people get something in their head that sounds cool and comforting to the anxiety of death and they will continue to believe it based on absolutely nothing other than "I just know it's true."
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Diploid
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14159435 - 03/21/11 01:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Why would the parents not being attention seeking liars give any credence to the claims?
if hes not sincere why is he making it up?
The children because that's in their nature. The parents because of confirmation bias.
Witness the case of the Cottingley Fairies where two girls living near Cottingley, England took a series of photographs in the early 1917 while playing with a new camera they'd received as a gift. They came up with the idea of putting cut-out fairies in the photographs and telling everyone that they were real.
The insisted the photographs were genuine and were persuasive in their story. Adults, especially their parents, reluctant to accept that two young girls would lie so, believed them.
This eventually got the attention of Arthur Conan Doyle (the author of the Sherlock Holmes novels) who fell for the lie in a classic example of confirmation bias.
From the Wiki:
"The photographs became public in mid-1919, after Elsie's mother attended a meeting of the Theosophical Society in Bradford. The lecture that evening was on "Fairy Life"... There they came to the attention of a leading member of the Society... One of the central beliefs of Theosophy is that humanity is undergoing a cycle of evolution, towards increasing "perfection"
That's another textbook example of confirmation bias.
Some people continued to believe this story despite common sense until finally, in 1985, the two now-elderly women confessed to the hoax, not wanting to die with the lie on their conscience.
So the point is that there is ample evidence of little kids making shit up and parents reinforcing it the the point where the lie takes on a life of its own. Anyone with an open mind can see this.
Not surprisingly, even after the confession, some "spiritualists" still refused to accept that it was a hoax. That rigidity of thought and belief in highly unlikely things based on the flimsiest of evidence because you WANT it to be true is one reason we live in such an ugly world.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Diploid]
#14159465 - 03/21/11 02:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Did you have a point here?
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Cognitive_Shift
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Did you have a point here? 
Duh! didn't you see it
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Diploid
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Did you have a point here?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Poid
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Diploid]
#14159507 - 03/21/11 02:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14159606 - 03/21/11 02:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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If he fully proved this video is a freud should that mean I should change my beliefs?
Maybe, if that's the best evidence you have. And if you had better evidence my guess is you would have presented it here to back your claims.
I have no problem with anyone believing anything they want. But this forum is concerned with solid evidence of claims and you don't have it.
Therefore my conclusions that it is an irrational belief based on personal desire seems pretty logical.
(If you do have it I personally would love to be convinced because I have death anxiety and the knowledge that I would continue on would be a great relief.)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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soldatheero
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Quote:
Yep, because people get something in their head that sounds cool and comforting to the anxiety of death and they will continue to believe it based on absolutely nothing other than "I just know it's true."
For many that may be true but I can sincerely tell you that I never believe in something merely for the sake in believing it. I only believe in something when there is suffient reasoning to provide me with the intellectual conviction for my belief.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14159639 - 03/21/11 02:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Maybe, if that's the best evidence you have. And if you had better evidence my guess is you would have presented it here to back your claims.
As iv stated it was not intended to be evidence of reincarnation nor was this thread meant to argue why\how reincarnation is possible.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero] 1
#14159645 - 03/21/11 02:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Then why is the thread titled "A Solid Case of Rincarnation"?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14159651 - 03/21/11 02:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Every time a TBer is asked to present 'best evidence' and it is refuted, the standard response is "Wait! I've got more," as if second best or a mishmash of unrelated 'evidence' will be even more convincing.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Poid]
#14159659 - 03/21/11 02:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Poid said: Then why is the thread titled "A Solid Case of Rincarnation"?
It is called 'marketing hype'.
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soldatheero
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Poid]
#14159665 - 03/21/11 02:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I said I should have named it A Solid Case Suggestive of Reincarnation I was orginally going to make it 'What do you make of this video' or how to you explain this case. IMO it is still a solid case of reincarnation it's just can't be proven because thats impossible.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14159676 - 03/21/11 02:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Every time a TBer is asked to present 'best evidence' and it is refuted, the standard response is "Wait! I've got more," as if second best or a mishmash of unrelated 'evidence' will be even more convincing
What is a 'TBer'? sorry I'm not in the loop.
The best case of evidence for reincarnation is the work of harvard researcher Ian Stevenson. See if you can debunk him.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14159683 - 03/21/11 02:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
Quote:
Yep, because people get something in their head that sounds cool and comforting to the anxiety of death and they will continue to believe it based on absolutely nothing other than "I just know it's true."
For many that may be true but I can sincerely tell you that I never believe in something merely for the sake in believing it. I only believe in something when there is suffient reasoning to provide me with the intellectual conviction for my belief.
Then present it or I'm calling Bullshit.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14159689 - 03/21/11 02:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I guess if you totally redefine the word 'solid'...
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14159690 - 03/21/11 02:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said: As iv stated it was not intended to be evidence of reincarnation...
Quote:
soldatheero said: IMO it is still a solid case of reincarnation...
So it's not intended to be evidence of reincarnation, but it is a solid case of it?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14159710 - 03/21/11 02:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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You will be waiting quite a while.
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: I guess if you totally redefine the word 'solid'... 
The OP is not being honest here at all, one bit, imo. He said solid and he thought it was otherwise he wouldn't have put himself up for this type of cross examination. He's shown his true colors as far as his posts go.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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soldatheero
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Poid]
#14159718 - 03/21/11 02:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well theres no way of knowing if it is false or true and my opinion is that it is true so IMO (as i stated) it is indeed a solid case of rebirth. It's not evidence because it can be believed to be invalid. Either way you are believing as you have not prooved it invalid you have only pointed out that it COULD Be invalid and there is no way of knowing.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Poid] 1
#14159720 - 03/21/11 02:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
So it's not intended to be evidence of reincarnation, but it is a solid case of it?
Poidster, one cannot use logic to dissemble double-speak.
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14159733 - 03/21/11 02:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said: Well theres no way of knowing if it is false or true and my opinion is that it is true so IMO (as i stated) it is indeed a solid case of rebirth. It's not evidence because it can be believed to be invalid. Either way you are believing as you have not prooved it invalid you have only pointed out that it COULD Be invalid and there is no way of knowing.
Bull shit.
And you call yourself logical? Not in this forum.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Freedom
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14159734 - 03/21/11 02:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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its just words they don't mean anything
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14159741 - 03/21/11 02:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
The OP is not being honest here at all
Now THERE is a shocker! A self-proclaimed spiritual type being intellectually dishonest.
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Poid
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14159757 - 03/21/11 03:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said: Well theres no way of knowing if it is false or true and my opinion is that it is true so IMO (as i stated) it is indeed a solid case of rebirth.
So you believe it just because it jives with your opinions?
Quote:
soldatheero said: It's not evidence because it can be believed to be invalid.
You said it is a solid case for reincarnation, this is the same thing as saying it is evidence for reincarnation; I don't know why you think that it's not evidence because it can be believed to be invalid. Evidence is not proof, and is often believed to be invalid, like in courts for example.
Quote:
soldatheero said: Either way you are believing as you have not prooved it invalid you have only pointed out that it COULD Be invalid and there is no way of knowing.
I'm not of the position that reincarnation is definitely impossible, but I think it is highly unlikely; if there is truly no way of knowing, then it is an unfalsifiable theory and not worth seriously entertaining IMO.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
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Well I might not have gotten some evidence for reincarnation but I certainly have gotten some more evidence that so called spiritual people lie like fuck. Not like I already don't have enough of that. It's ethical/moral cowardice imo.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Poid]
#14159776 - 03/21/11 03:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
if there is truly know way of knowing
Ahem. Got you, MFer!
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14159791 - 03/21/11 03:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Then present it or I'm calling Bullshit.
IMO it is more likely that that reality is purely perception, perception is what causes consciousness. Consciousness cannot permanently ceases because its source, perception will never ceases to exist. I'am not apart from consiousness or perception and will also never cease to exist. All of those claims require arguments that require further arguments but that is the hard basis of my belief in rebirth. All the other "evidence" is merely icing on the cake.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Poid
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I fixed that right away.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14159804 - 03/21/11 03:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
You said it is a solid case for reincarnation, this is the same thing as saying it is evidence for reincarnation; I don't know why you think that it's not evidence because it can be believed to be invalid. Evidence is not proof, and is often believed to be invalid, like in courts for example
Not really interested in doing the samantics with you.
Quote:
its just words they don't mean anything
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14159822 - 03/21/11 03:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Well I might not have gotten some evidence for reincarnation but I certainly have gotten some more evidence that so called spiritual people lie like fuck
Haha wow I'm a liar now because I'm using words incorrectly? I don't get it. My opinion is that the video is not a fake and the kid is sincere because he has lived a past life and hence its a case of rebirth. I'v admitted that what am I lieing about?
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14159835 - 03/21/11 03:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
Quote:
Then present it or I'm calling Bullshit.
IMO it is more likely that that reality is purely perception, perception is what causes consciousness. Consciousness cannot permanently ceases because its source, perception will never ceases to exist. I'am not apart from consiousness or perception and will also never cease to exist. All of those claims require arguments that require further arguments but that is the hard basis of my belief in rebirth. All the other "evidence" is merely icing on the cake.
hard basis 
You mean like "solid".
Actually "hardly solid"
Don't try and change the subject cause that's bullshit. Present evidence or admit you don't have it. I'd sure love a tad of truth and honesty in one of your posts. It doesn't matter to us that much but it should matter to you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero] 1
#14159837 - 03/21/11 03:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
Quote:
Then present it or I'm calling Bullshit.
IMO it is more likely that that reality is purely perception, perception is what causes consciousness.
How many times have you said this? How many times have you provided evidence for this?
Quote:
soldatheero said: Consciousness cannot permanently ceases because its source, perception will never ceases to exist.
What? 
Consciousness and perception are the same thing...
Quote:
soldatheero said: I'am not apart from consiousness or perception and will also never cease to exist.
So how many more baseless claims do you plan to throw at us?
Quote:
soldatheero said: All of those claims require arguments that require further arguments but that is the hard basis of my belief in rebirth.
That's hardly any basis at all.
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soldatheero said: All the other "evidence" is merely icing on the cake.
That cake is nothing but horse shit.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14159839 - 03/21/11 03:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Does anyone have a back-pedal gramelin?
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1tokeovrtheline
life=painfully beautiful



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I think those who believe in reincarnation so tenaciously usually are confusing emotions with logic, especially when its "I was george washington and julius caesar and saint so and so" 
feeling very deeply that you are like someone, that you are kindred spirits, does not mean that you actually were them in a past life. I think a lot of people just underestimate how similar we can be to other humans, so someone (almost always famous-shocker) who had a similar life or psychological makeup as you can seem so similar its shocking, but I would just say thats more evidence that we aren't as fuckn special as we would all like to believe.
IF there is reincarnation I think that our consciousness-which is perhaps just a collection of the natural laws of physics manifesting themselves through the complex neurological structures of our minds, almost a universe in themselves-perhaps has some stuff which lasts beyond death, but it would be beyond any sort of identity or cognitive ability to recognize it in a "future life". Pretty much imo it would be like wearing a wig made of someone's hair and thinking you now are them, its illogical because although its a part of them, it is not their identity.
so idk perhaps there is some type of "reincarnation" but this thesophistic concept of you being able to recall past lives just doesn't make any sense to me, how the fuck would that type of information stay with you through death and rebirth and a new mind and everything when someone with amnesia can't even remember that type of thing and they have a pretty damn good understanding of how information like that is processed in your mind. That would mean you are just connecting things that aren't really there based on emotion.
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Music, business as usual Mi' spliff and Guiness as usual Highgrade we puffin as usual Fight down the system as usual The system fight we down as usual The cops dem a watch we as usual And a we a watch the cops as usual
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soldatheero
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14159873 - 03/21/11 03:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Don't try and change the subject cause that's bullshit. Present evidence or admit you don't have it
Present evidence that this case is indeed the result of "confirmation bias" or any of the other theories which debunk the video. Can you?
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14159885 - 03/21/11 03:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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id say the video could be evidence, but not 'solid' evidence. It's 'fluffy' evidence.
If you're into the idea of reincarnation you can eat it like cotton candy.
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OrgoneConclusion
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I was in the meditation group wherein the facilitator and most participants firmly believed in reincarnation.
One time we went around the room and everyone told of their most vivid past life. Half of the chicks were Mary Magdalene or Cleopatra. And most of the dudes were Jesus' disiciples, or the Roman who speared Jesus or Pontius Pilate or Caesar (religious guilt anyone?)
No one was a nobody.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero] 1
#14159919 - 03/21/11 03:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
Quote:
Don't try and change the subject cause that's bullshit. Present evidence or admit you don't have it
Present evidence that this case is indeed the result of "confirmation bias" or any of the other theories which debunk the video. Can you?
Stop changing the subject! You have yet to present "solid evidence" for your argument. Just present this so called "solid evidence" you have... some tangent about how consciousness is perception is not "solid evidence."
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Icelander
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero] 1
#14159929 - 03/21/11 03:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
Quote:
Don't try and change the subject cause that's bullshit. Present evidence or admit you don't have it
Present evidence that this case is indeed the result of "confirmation bias" or any of the other theories which debunk the video. Can you?
I don't have to present anything. You said you LOGICALLY concluded that you believe in reincarnation. That's the evidence I'm asking for. Cut the bull shit and quit trying to sidestep my question.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14159941 - 03/21/11 03:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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That is three times, so officially the 'Icelander Rule' is now in effect.
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Icelander
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No ones had to use that here in a long time. He should be very proud.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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soldatheero
lastirishman


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Quote:
How many times have you said this? How many times have you provided evidence for this?
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I don't have to present anything. You said you LOGICALLY concluded that you believe in reincarnation. That's the evidence I'm asking for. Cut the bull shit and quit trying to sidestep my question.
I have provided logical arguments for the philosophical position of mind or perception causing matter.. why this theory has explanatory power and is more simplistic then materialism and therefore more probable.. Rebirth is an implication of this position as it implies the individual is not the body and our existence does not depend upon the body.
No time to really go into it now in depth.. it is after all an ongoing age old debate around here is it not?
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Icelander
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero] 2
#14160499 - 03/21/11 05:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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An argument is not logical because you say it is. 
One needs evidence that can be presented.
You said reincarnation is logical but refuse to provide any type of conclusive evidence. Yet your conclusion is it's logical because you believe it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14160608 - 03/21/11 06:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's amazing how people can make themselves believe anything they want with NO evidence what so ever... it kinda makes us not look like some spiritual enlightened species of man... but just a stupid animal, and i wonder whyyyyyy lol
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
Edited by Cognitive_Shift (03/21/11 06:50 PM)
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Diploid
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It's not that amazing when you consider how many people think marijuana is highly dangerous and should be illegal, but alcohol and nicotine are comparatively harmless and should be sold at the supermarket.
The evidence showing marijuana to be one of the most benign drugs known while alcohol and tobacco kill by the millions is of little relevance when a True Believer decides something is true because... well, just because.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Icelander
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Gee and they wonder why some of us are just a tad cynical. 
Well folks this thread has been a text book case imo of the amazing abilities of the human animal to look the other way when life tries to intrude. In the end I believe it's our down fall and good fucking riddance I say.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Diploid]
#14160849 - 03/21/11 06:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: It's not that amazing when you consider how many people think marijuana is highly dangerous and should be illegal but alcohol and nicotine are comparatively harmless and should be sold at the supermarket.
The evidence showing marijuana to be one of the most benign drugs known while alcohol and tobaco kill by the millions is of little relevance when a True Believer decides something is true because... well, just because.
The examples are like the stars in the sky once you admit to yourself that humans are full of bs.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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falcon



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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14160912 - 03/21/11 07:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
I have provided logical arguments for the philosophical position of mind or perception causing matter.. why this theory has explanatory power and is more simplistic then materialism and therefore more probable.. Rebirth is an implication of this position as it implies the individual is not the body and our existence does not depend upon the body.

Rebirth is not an implication of this position, incarnation is, reincarnation is not.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
Quote:
That the claims made are not proven yet are maintained makes this, indeed, antithetical to scientific philosophy and a matter of science vs faith.
I disagree your conclusion is based on the premise that science proves theories. In science tests are designed to disprove, not prove, theories. Testing a theory simply tests to see if the theory can survive the test. A theory simply retains its viability if it survives a test. One could never, even in principle, devise a test for a theory that would verify it beyond all doubt.
You've declared a lot of things to be true here. Please back up these declarations with some logical argument: your stating of these things is not helpful
a) how do you reckon science disproves rather than proves theories and that testing a theory will not prove a theory? As a counterexample to your representation: hypothesis: ciggerette smoking causes lung cancer; Experiment: one-hundred people are randomly selected and randomly divided into two groups. Group A is convinced to smoke a pack a day. Group B is convinced to eat twenty candy ciggerettes a day but otherwise identical. Analysis: Group A develops lung cancer more than group B with a confidence of p<0.01.
How does this not prove ciggereettes cause lung cancer? It does, you are incorrect. Science may indeed prove things.
b) what does whether all doubt is removed have to do with the qualitative determination of the hypothesis's demonstrated validity or lack thereof? You posture your discussion as if it is a commentary on what science can inform about, yet midstream conclude that its conclusions will have some doubt. While the relevance of this is not explained by you and is not understood by me, as this applies to everything and is hardly of particular relevance to science, it also seems to have nothing to do with the question of what science may demonstrate.
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soldatheero said: I never really intended to it to be hard factual unfalsifiable evidence of reincarnation. All posts have been addressing the video as if it is suppose to be so the jist of every comment is - 1) people lie 2) No way to prove there not lying 3) therefore the video means nothing. I should have named it "Case SUGGESTIVE of reincarnation".
What does the rigour with which you feel this video establishes reincarnation have to do with anything? This is a curious response that people make all the time: "well, I didn't really mean x,y, and z... Its just interesting". To me this seems to reflect insecurity: revealing that the person identifies emotionally with the idea so intimately that they feel criticism of the idea as if it were criticism of them, and hence defend their own intentions when they are both irrelevant and previously unmentioned. Someone who is so emotionally attached as to manifest this behavior seems someone poorly-situated to give an objective appraisel of the evidence and make conclusions thereupon.
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Hes done a good job of arguing that this video is in no way "proof" of rebirth, that is about it. Why would that change my belief system? It's as if your suggesting my beliefs depend upon this video. If he fully proved this video is a freud should that mean I should change my beliefs? No.
I don't understand your point. As stated previously, the null hypothesis is the default outlook that is logical to hold, and it has pretty clearly not been been rejected by any evidence in this case. That nobody has disproven that a teapot is orbiting the earth, or that somebody has reincarnated, seems completely irrelevant. a) nobodies claimed otherwise, b) that you would even offer this as a defense of your idea seems to relegate your idea into that scrapheap of other nonsense that hasn't been disproven: orbiting teapots, scientology's Xenu, and reptillian overlords. This is not worthy of such bragging.
Quote:
Quote:
As for his motivation: the parents likely encourage his beliefs by responding with attention, praise, and wonder, making the child feel valued and special. The parents, in turn, reinforce what they want to believe and have a vested interest in their feelings of uniqueness and value as to their son being substantiated: a classic case of confirmation bias.
They didn't encourage his beliefs in fact they were clueless until they slowly connected the dots. They did not reinforce what they wanted to belief, the father was basically appalled at the concept that he was a reincarnation.. "no way I don't believe in this stuff." Eventually he delved into it to get to the bottom of what was going on and slowly starte to believe due to considerable evidence.
Please demonstrate that they did not encourage his beliefs. Given that the child is somewhat of a celebrity and is the topic of much media coverage, it seems pretty strange that you'd claim they did not encourage his beleifs. Are you suggesting this kid does not enjoy the attention, that the parents don't likewise relish in the attention yet somehow are compelled to participate in media appearances against their will?
You say they "slowly connected the dots", yet I don't see how this is at all inconsistant with my proffered explanation as to motive, and it seems to be quite strongly in support of it: you agree that they slowly came to believe he was reincarnated- hence, confirmation bias.
Once more I must point out that we have no knowledge of this kid's abilities or knowledge. What testing has been done at all? That cherry picked cases alleged to represent some exceptional knowledge can be recited is not any more impressive than any other cold reader stumbling upon something of interest- at least the cold reader doesn't have a priori knowledge of that which is to be confirmed, making them more credible than these parents are.
Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: It's amazing how people can make themselves believe anything they want with NO evidence what so ever... it kinda makes us not look like some spiritual enlightened species of man... but just a stupid animal, and i wonder whyyyyyy lol
The scary thing is this is the EXACT same type of nonsense arguments that are used to support all the atrocities in history. The Khmer Rouge had all sorts of reasons why they needed to torture and kill so much of the population, as did the perpetrators of the Tutsi genocide in Rwanda, and the Chinese Red Guard who destroyed property, executed people, and otherwise carried out the cultural revolation in China.
How many of the atrocities that the perpetrators have come to claim were in error could have been stopped had the people carrying them out under flawed philosophies looked logically at their beliefs which they now regard as fallacious and unsupported?
The results are not similar in quality, magnitude, or horrificness to those which the true believers and mystics favor, but the flawed thinking and willingness to dismiss obvious deficiencies in logic is a prerequisite for both types of faulty belief systems. What if some of those people had the intellectual honesty and credibility to examine their emotionally-held beliefs? Would you have been fooled by the propoganda that convinced so many to commit horrible acts?
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soldatheero
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: johnm214]
#14162789 - 03/22/11 01:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
) how do you reckon science disproves rather than proves theories and that testing a theory will not prove a theory? As a counterexample to your representation: hypothesis: cigarette smoking causes lung cancer; Experiment: one-hundred people are randomly selected and randomly divided into two groups. Group A is convinced to smoke a pack a day. Group B is convinced to eat twenty candy cigarettes a day but otherwise identical. Analysis: Group A develops lung cancer more than group B with a confidence of p<0.01.
Then you have an experiment which suggests that smoking causes cancer, however you still have to call it a theory and not a scientific proof as you could never design such an experiment to yield the same results over and over. What you really have is a statistical proof NOT a scientific proof.
IMO the underlying problem with most of your (the people in this thread) is you expect scientific proof for phenomenon that simply cannot be tested in a laboratory. Scientific proof can be obtained about something as easily observable\testable as cancer causing smoking, so how is it to be expected for metaphysical phenomenon. The truth is scientific proofs are near impossible that science dubs everything "the theory of.."
Quote:
) that you would even offer this as a defense of your idea seems to relegate your idea into that scrapheap of other nonsense that hasn't been dis-proven: orbiting teapots, scientology's Xenu, and reptillian overlords
The belief in rebirth is not even close to as arbitrary or random as a pot orbiting in space or reptiles ruling us and it is wrong to lump it into the same category. Only two things are possible when your body is destroyed, either you cease to exist or you don't. The ongoing phenomenon of people claiming to remember past lives should be seriously investigated.
The video I've presented cannot be considered indisputable evidence because as you have pointed out "what testing has been done" - none, but what testing can really be done to prove indisputably that he is not lying or brainwashed himself? No tests can be done to scientifically prove the kids story, not even a lie detector test could do the trick. That is why I said the story was not meant to be presented as INDISPUTABLE proof - because that is not possible.
Quote:
It's amazing how people can make themselves believe anything they want with NO evidence what so ever... it kinda makes us not look like some spiritual enlightened species of man... but just a stupid animal, and i wonder whyyyyyy
Belief is necessary because unfalsifiable evidence is impossible and scientific proof is as well. My belief is not arbitrary but has reasoning, logic and some evidence (such as the work of Ian Stevenson). By the self-righteous arragant tone of your posts (most of you in the thread) it is obvious that you fail to recognize this, likely due to your ignorant assumptions and completely closed mind.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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johnm214


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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14162995 - 03/22/11 03:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Please explain how scientific proof is impossible. You've stated this but have not demonstrated it to be correct, and I don't believe you've even made an argument for this position other than recognizing the difference between unqualified certainty and certainty surpassing a particular level of confidence.
Quote:
Then you have an experiment which suggests that smoking causes cancer, however you still have to call it a theory and not a scientific proof as you could never design such an experiment to yield the same results over and over. What you really have is a statistical proof NOT a scientific proof.
What is the difference between scientific and statistical proof? I fail to see the distinction, and ask what makes the conclusion not scientficly proven? How can you say that the experiment would not return the same results over and over? That's the whole basis of scientific examination: repeatability. Just what exactly are you saying here cannot be repeated with the same results and what basis do you have for this insistence?
Further: you say metaphysical things cannot be scientifically examined, or something to this effect. I've heard many people make all sorts of claims as to limitations of science but seldom do they justify these claims. What exactly are you claiming science cannot investigate and why? Knowledge of past lives, telepathy, and so forth could obviously be investigated as any other observable phenomena is. What is the problem and how do you justify your claim?
Quote:
"what testing has been done" - none, but what testing can really be done to prove indisputably that he is not lying or brainwashed himself? No tests can be done to scientifically prove the kids story, not even a lie detector test could do the trick.
How so? Scientific testing could indeed be done: ask him what he remembers and record it. Ask him various questions and reocrd the answers. There, done.
Further, it is plain that testing has been done, I simply asked for the results, which I suspect have not been systematically recorded and if they were, they would reveal his success to be akin to a "cold reader" on those things he doesn't have prior knowledge of. It is garden variety trickery to recall and emphasize only the confirming results and to neglect the spurious ones. As the parents are invested in their child's "gift" I would imagine they haven't bothered to actually record the protocol they used and the answers and questions. Had they done so, some proper analysis might be possible rather than post-hoc explanations of parties who have independant knowledge of the subject and who were not blinded.
Your assertion that no testing was done seems to confuse rigorous lab based science with simple investigations such as asking questions, recording details. Science doesn't require a lab or stuffy atmosphere: the questions the kid was alleged to answer were indeed proper scientific investigations- I just doubt they were analyzed objectively and suspect they weren't even recorded (something a middle school student would know to do).
Finally: I think you have some confusion as to what "theory" means in science. You seem to be using it as a hypothesis or possible explanation, but "theory" means an accepted framework of knowledge that is well-supported by the evidence. Examples are gravitation and the laws of motion. Either way, your appeals in this direction are semantic arguments, and are therefore not relevant to what science is or is not capable of.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
#14163101 - 03/22/11 04:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
The belief in rebirth is not even close to as arbitrary or random as a pot orbiting in space or reptiles ruling us and it is wrong to lump it into the same category.
Because you said so or for some tangible philsophical reason?
Quote:
Only two things are possible when your body is destroyed, either you cease to exist or you don't.
So this it a 50/50 proposition like black/red on a roulette wheel? And the chance of alien overlords is also 1/2? And the odds of Nessie existing is 50%?
If I misunderstood, please clarify.
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jebustrist
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Well of course we're angels trapped in these crude physical forms, why else do you think we would be made of the most common elements on earth and share an evolutionary lineage with every other species on the planet?
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Icelander
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: jebustrist]
#14163885 - 03/22/11 10:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm the favorite angel. But I got uppity and decided to think for myself.
Now I'm down here trying to wake up sleeping sheepies. But only one or two has the nerve. Not much of an army but we all go surfing together on weekends so we got that goin for us.
PM me if you want to talk more non sense.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: jebustrist]
#14163932 - 03/22/11 10:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
jebustrist said: Well of course we're angels trapped in these crude physical forms, why else do you think we would be made of the most common elements on earth and share an evolutionary lineage with every other species on the planet?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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ApJunkie
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: jebustrist]
#14163948 - 03/22/11 10:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
jebustrist said: Well of course we're angels trapped in these crude physical forms, why else do you think we would be made of the most common elements on earth and share an evolutionary lineage with every other species on the planet?
Umm because they were the most abundant so therefore easiest to acquire.... and because we evolved. I can't tell if you're trolling or just retarded
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Poid
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14163955 - 03/22/11 10:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ApJunkie said: I can't tell if you're trolling or just retarded
You can't?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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g00ru
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Poid]
#14163979 - 03/22/11 11:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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In my past life I lived on an alien planet
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Poid
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: g00ru]
#14163993 - 03/22/11 11:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm sure you also had a vagina.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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g00ru
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Poid]
#14164022 - 03/22/11 11:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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maybe. I'm comfortable with that. although i'm pretty sure the planet didn't have gender on it.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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ApJunkie
part-time Ninja



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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Poid]
#14164030 - 03/22/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
ApJunkie said: I can't tell if you're trolling or just retarded
You can't?
You are aware that there are actually people alive that would say that sentence with a straight face, right?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: g00ru]
#14164044 - 03/22/11 11:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said: In my past life I lived on an alien planet 
Was it Planet of the Apes?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
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Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14164070 - 03/22/11 11:21 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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no that's this one
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: g00ru]
#14164088 - 03/22/11 11:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ApJunkie said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
ApJunkie said: I can't tell if you're trolling or just retarded
You can't?
You are aware that there are actually people alive that would say that sentence with a straight face, right?
Yes I am aware of that, which is partly why I'm surprised that you're having difficulty discerning whether this guy is trolling or just retarded; IMO, it's fucking obvious.
Quote:
guruu said: maybe. I'm comfortable with that. although i'm pretty sure the planet didn't have gender on it.
So how many times have you dreamed this?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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ApJunkie
part-time Ninja



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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Poid]
#14164105 - 03/22/11 11:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
ApJunkie said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
ApJunkie said: I can't tell if you're trolling or just retarded
You can't?
You are aware that there are actually people alive that would say that sentence with a straight face, right?
Yes I am aware of that, which is partly why I'm surprised that you're having difficulty discerning whether this guy is trolling or just retarded; IMO, it's fucking obvious.
And that's why I think it's surprising that you think it's so black and white. With equal odds of him being serious or joking, then obviously it could go either way.
Mod Edit: If you can't debate the topic without using insults, then don't post here.
Edited by Diploid (03/22/11 11:47 AM)
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Poid]
#14164107 - 03/22/11 11:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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its a running mythology that develops over time
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14164119 - 03/22/11 11:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Never mind, fuck off.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: g00ru]
#14164125 - 03/22/11 11:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said: its a running mythology that develops over time
As with most spiritual ideas, the plot always thickens.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14164174 - 03/22/11 11:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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ApJunkie,
Insulting people is against the rules in PS&P. If you can't debate the topic without resorting to this childishness, then don't post in PS&P.
Try OTD where that's how they debate there.
Consider this your warning.
Read the rest of the rules here before you post again:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4526664#4526664
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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ApJunkie
part-time Ninja



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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Diploid]
#14164270 - 03/22/11 12:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I thought it would be considered a good natured joke
Sorry to offend you, Poid.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14164289 - 03/22/11 12:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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You're not fooling anyone. It's a known fact that no one posting here is good natured.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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ApJunkie
part-time Ninja



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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander] 1
#14164299 - 03/22/11 12:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yaay, bans for everyone!!
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14164302 - 03/22/11 12:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Fortunately for us, being bad natured is not against the rules.
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ApJunkie
part-time Ninja



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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: DieCommie]
#14164313 - 03/22/11 12:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well apparently it is.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14164317 - 03/22/11 12:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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You didn't offend me, I just thought it was annoying how you kept insisting that the likelihood of that guy being a troll is equal to that of him being a retard; it was fairly obvious to me that he was not a troll, for many reasons. Then you made a personal remark about me, which I assumed was intended to be an insult/attempt at trolling; I don't like participating in discussions in this forum with people who just wanna troll me, it's pointless, that's why I told you to fuck off. I did not tell you to fuck off because you offended me, I told you that because you were being annoying.
I didn't warn Diploid of your post, FYI, nor do I believe that you intended that joke to be good-natured.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14164320 - 03/22/11 12:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Nope, you can be bad natured and not insult people's physical characteristics. Do you not understand the difference?
(See, that snide question is bad natured and within the rules) (Also, it was me who blew the whistle on you. )
Edited by DieCommie (03/22/11 12:18 PM)
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ApJunkie
part-time Ninja



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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: DieCommie]
#14164372 - 03/22/11 12:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: nor do I believe that you intended that joke to be good-natured.
I don't really care what you believe, I spoke my piece, and honestly wasn't intending it to be a snap (if you can't take a joke, then what's the point of talking to people?). Sounds like YOU aren't a very good natured human
Quote:
DieCommie said: Nope, you can be bad natured and not insult people's physical characteristics. Do you not understand the difference?
(See, that snide question is bad natured and within the rules) (Also, it was me who blew the whistle on you. )
Of course I do, but I think you can also make gentle insults and still be GOOD natured in the process. (See, the world isn't black and white) (Also, )
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14164390 - 03/22/11 12:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ApJunkie said: Well apparently it is.
No flaming or personalisms are against the rules. Read them sometime.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14164429 - 03/22/11 12:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ApJunkie said:
Quote:
Poid said: nor do I believe that you intended that joke to be good-natured.
I don't really care what you believe, I spoke my piece, and honestly wasn't intending it to be a snap (if you can't take a joke, then what's the point of talking to people?).
I didn't feel like you were joking, I felt like you intended that to be a personal attack; people who like to joke around with me are fine in my book, but people who "attack" me with insults can fuck right off.
You're obviously bullshitting, though.
Quote:
ApJunkie said: Sounds like YOU aren't a very good natured human 
Sounds like the rules of this forum are extremely complicated to follow, even after you've received an official warning, aren't they? You've obviously got something personal against me, or else you would have no need to make these personal remarks about me, there's no reason to lie about it; unless, of course, you're afraid or something. 
Quote:
ApJunkie said: Of course I do, but I think you can also make gentle insults and still be GOOD natured in the process. (See, the world isn't black and white) (Also, )
Bullshit; you're lying through your teeth, and you fucking know it.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (03/22/11 12:46 PM)
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
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Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Poid]
#14164453 - 03/22/11 12:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
guruu said: its a running mythology that develops over time
As with most spiritual ideas, the plot always thickens. 
well, that's really tangent to my spirituality and more just for fun than anything else. it's obviously all in the imagination. real spiritual ideas simplify...until there isn't any idea left at all
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: g00ru]
#14164467 - 03/22/11 12:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said: real spiritual ideas simplify...until there isn't any idea left at all 
I agree, spiritual ideas are pretty simple.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: g00ru]
#14164484 - 03/22/11 12:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
real spiritual ideas simplify...until there isn't any idea left at all
Although I'd change how you say that slightly I pretty much agree with this but why does everyone start sounding so certain when they talk about what's left behind? How is it "the truth" if it's also "unknown"? The two just don't reconcile.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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ApJunkie
part-time Ninja



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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Poid] 1
#14164486 - 03/22/11 12:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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ok dude, you're obviously just determined to be angry and offended regardless. Have fun in your self-conscious little world of trivial anger and defensive remarks.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie] 5
#14164489 - 03/22/11 12:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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GTFO.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14164530 - 03/22/11 01:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ApJunkie said:
ok dude, you're obviously just determined to be angry and offended regardless.
Yes, this is obvious because I provided a clear explanation as to why I reacted the way I did which didn't at all include an admittance to being offended, or any obvious signs that I have been angered in the least. 
No, what's obvious here is your bizarre need to antagonize me--this has been obvious since even before you made that "good-natured joke". It's cute that you think people can't see what you're up to. 
Quote:
ApJunkie said: Have fun in your self-conscious little world of trivial anger and defensive remarks.
Have fun in your self-conscious little world of delusional superiority and the agonizing emotional issues that accompany it.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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ApJunkie
part-time Ninja



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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Poid] 1
#14164544 - 03/22/11 01:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Just saying you're not offended in no way disguises the fact that you actually are.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14164549 - 03/22/11 01:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: Never mind, fuck off.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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ApJunkie
part-time Ninja



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Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Poid]
#14164557 - 03/22/11 01:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I tried to apologize and you just couldn't accept it
Sorry, again. Didn't mean to hurt your wittle feelings
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14164564 - 03/22/11 01:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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You're sure you're not an underage user?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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jebustrist
Stranger


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 79
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Poid] 1
#14164713 - 03/22/11 01:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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If he is he seems immeasurably more mature than you.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: jebustrist]
#14164810 - 03/22/11 02:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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After class today, I will be handing out Ego Deaths all around.
--------------------
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Can I have extras?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: ApJunkie]
#14165074 - 03/22/11 02:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ApJunkie said: Just saying you're not offended in no way disguises the fact that you actually are.
Get lost dude.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: jebustrist]
#14165078 - 03/22/11 02:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
jebustrist said: If he is he seems immeasurably more mature than you.
Get lost
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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JustAnotherAsshole
DILLIGAF



Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 1,853
Loc: Nowhereville
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: Icelander]
#14165550 - 03/22/11 04:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
ApJunkie said: Just saying you're not offended in no way disguises the fact that you actually are.
Get lost dude. 
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
jebustrist said: If he is he seems immeasurably more mature than you.
Get lost 
You should just stop. You completely suck at trolling.
--------------------
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Learn the rules or leave.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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JustAnotherAsshole
DILLIGAF



Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 1,853
Loc: Nowhereville
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What? I have broken no rules. I simply stated a fact. Anyone who can read, should be able to see it.
--------------------
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soldatheero
lastirishman


Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 2,856
Loc:
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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you'll be gone soon enough.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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The people who Icelander were referring to broke the forum rules. Unless it wasn't Icelander you were calling a troll then it was a personalism.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: A Solid Case of Rincarnation [Re: soldatheero] 2
#14165655 - 03/22/11 04:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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This thread has been closed.
Reason: Alright.
/sigh
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