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Anonymous

True Patriotism
    #1415116 - 03/27/03 07:18 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

What is true patriotism? Is it allegiance to the government above all else? Is it simply loving your homeland? Is it about pride? What makes one a patriot? Mimicking sleazebag politicians? Putting American flags and stickers that expose utter ignorance all over your car? Is that patriotic? Ask one of the rejects with a "These Colors Don't Run" bumper sticker and I bet they'll claim to be uber patriotic. Are they?

Any moron can wave a flag around and talk about how we gotta go get all them Ay Rabs and teach em good for doin 9/11 to us. Is that true patriotism? Any moron can also blindly follow whatever our elected officials choose to do, and denounce any criticism of it as rubbish. Is that true patriotism? And surely, any moron can have a sense of pride in their homeland and nationality. It's practically innate, and if it's not innate it's socialized into people's thought processes at a very young age. Is that what true patriotism is?

In contrast to those examples, it takes someone with at least minimal brain power to be able to love their country not just because it's their country. To love their country because it is built on IDEALS that really mean something. To really understand what it means to be an American, to understand why these ideals are so important, to understand that these ideals come first, before ANYTHING else. That takes someone who can and does think for themself. And that is true patriotism. TRUE PATRIOTS stand up for the ideals their country is built upon, not simply for the country itself or the government.

And sadly, a pretty large percentage of "flag-wavers" would be hard-pressed to tell you anything about the ideals that make this country as great as it is. This day and age is a very sad time indeed for us true patriots.


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Anonymous

Re: True Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1415195 - 03/27/03 07:49 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

patriotism is the means of controlling the masses.


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Anonymous

Re: True Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1415214 - 03/27/03 07:57 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

In a sense I see your point, but I disagree. Patriotism is not by necessity a means to control the masses. There was a time when being patriotic literally meant you were ready to defend your way of life against aggression, and you really understood what it was you were defending. This breed of patriotism is rare these days, but definitely not extinct. But I do agree with you in one way. Patriotism has become another catch phrase in today's day and age. Like "Terrorism." It's meaning has been all but lost, and it is often used now to manipulate people. It's unfortunate, but that is not what patriotism is really about.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: True Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1415222 - 03/27/03 08:01 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.



We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.



By the way, there is an interesting line in there that pertains to standing armies discussion....
"provide for the common defense"

I stated my reasons for loving America in another thread recently all to no avail.


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Anonymous

Re: True Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1415260 - 03/27/03 08:15 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

i have patriotism in humanity, if you can have such a thing. But, "loving" your country just because your born here is ridiculous to me. i didn't choose where i was born, and neither did anyone else. with borders humanity can never evolve and we will always be stuck fighting for our own selfish power. i'm not saying you shouldn't embrace ideals. but, formulate them yourself, and on a global scale, not beliefs that just benefit the people living within our imaginery borders.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: True Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1415342 - 03/27/03 08:52 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Well said!

I already changed citizenship of two countries and I'm still living at the same place. I've been raised as a Yugoslavian patriot and you all know what happened. I will never buy patriotism propaganda again.


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Anonymous

Re: True Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1415343 - 03/27/03 08:53 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

But, "loving" your country just because your born here is ridiculous to me.




I don't know if you missed the point or something, but that is essentially the exact same thing I said. I was saying that the only form of patriotism that actually means anything is one based on ideals you agree with, not just on being from a certain country.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: True Patriotism [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1415398 - 03/27/03 09:13 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,


Hmm......


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: True Patriotism [Re: Skikid16]
    #1415408 - 03/27/03 09:18 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

It the majority thought it was time for a change then it would be our constitutional right and responsibility to alter or abolish it. Actualy that is what voting is, altering it.


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Anonymous

Re: True Patriotism [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1415411 - 03/27/03 09:19 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

What if the gov't refused to listen to what we voted for or attempted to manipulate how we voted?


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: True Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1415422 - 03/27/03 09:24 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I was saying that the only form of patriotism that actually means anything is one based on ideals you agree with, not just on being from a certain country.




I agree with you. Such patriotism would make sense.
But most of people understand it differently: "Follow your government, no matter what it does."


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: True Patriotism [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1415434 - 03/27/03 09:29 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I understand what they were implying, I'm saying that doesn't sound like too bad of an idea right about now...


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: True Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1415450 - 03/27/03 09:36 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Patriotism sounds a lot like racism to me


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: True Patriotism [Re: Skikid16]
    #1415526 - 03/27/03 10:03 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I understand. I'm saying that there isn't a majority right now.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: True Patriotism [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1415773 - 03/28/03 01:22 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.





That's way too big to fit on a bumper sticker.


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Re: True Patriotism [Re: zeronio]
    #1415967 - 03/28/03 04:13 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I've been raised as a Yugoslavian patriot




Otpor!


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: True Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1416419 - 03/29/03 03:26 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

"I am a citizen of the world."--Diogenes(I think)


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OfflineBowlKiller
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Re: True Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1421011 - 04/01/03 04:47 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Very nice post! A point so many people need to understand.

The real patriots are those that are willing to fight for the ideals and way of life. And those ideals can be summed up with the United States Constitution.

That is why calling these destructive acts "patriot acts" is so overwhelmingly abhorrent. If anyone actually reads the patriot act I or Patriot act II you can see that something has gone terribly wrong.

And people that say well if you don't support your govt. then you are not a patriot are just so wrong. If your govt. breaks the ideals that your country was founded on then it is your duty as a citizen to fight for those ideals. The great thing about the constitution is that even this thought and ideal of controlling the govt. by the people is plainly laid out as a part of the essense of the whole.

There is a very good question in this thread, "What if the govt. pays no attention to the votes of the people?" Well that is why we have the right to bear arms. The sad thing is that this is starting to take place, just look at the whole 2000 election mess, and for future BS please note that the govt. wants to implement electronic touch screen voting booths, that way it will even be easier to manipulate the overall votes.

And yes these are very sad times. Probably due to the large number of immigrants that really dont know shit about American history, and the large number of Americans that really dont know shit about American history, in the near future true patriots are going to be looked upon as the new "terrorists" spouting on and on about how we have rights, and individual freedoms.


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OfflineJammer
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Re: True Patriotism [Re: ]
    #1421057 - 04/01/03 05:50 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

True Patriotism..... (as in American Patriotism)...

Is it not all about buying a Chinese made American Flag from Walmart? :grin: 


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Offlinefelix
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Re: True Patriotism [Re: Jammer]
    #1421083 - 04/01/03 06:23 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

there used to be a time when everyone was PROUD of their america. they were Proud to be apart of it. proud to support it, because lies did not exist...or so they thought.


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