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OfflineEshu
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New York and Welfare and Drugs.
    #14149871 - 03/19/11 06:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So, just watched the news the other day, and New York is thinking of Drug testing everyone whom is on Wel-fare as the Wel-fare number is so high.

We thought our unemployment rate was high. Wait till they start drug testing our wel-faries.
:shrug:


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~^*>~.Life is the hyphen between matter and spirit.~^*>~


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Offlinedshow
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: Eshu]
    #14149888 - 03/19/11 06:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This is an incredibly good idea. People that are on welfare shouldnt be doing jack shit. that includes alcohol and cigarettes. BUT.. Like you said the problem is.. Who is going to pay for the tests and the people that are catching them?

Its  both a pro and a con. :shrug:

So many people take advantage of welfare though. Id rather spend the extra money catching those fucks then letting them cheat the system.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: dshow]
    #14149923 - 03/19/11 06:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dshow said:
This is an incredibly good idea. People that are on welfare shouldnt be doing jack shit.




sure they should... they should be looking for a way off public assistance

failing that drug test would be the quick was to get off it


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Offlinedshow
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14149946 - 03/19/11 06:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Exactly. The second they are caught, smoking, drinking, or other substances. They should be put off, and never able to go back on it. EVER


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Invisibleifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,389
Loc: Denver, CO Flag
Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: dshow]
    #14149971 - 03/19/11 06:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dshow said:
Exactly. The second they are caught, smoking, drinking, or other substances. They should be put off, and never able to go back on it. EVER




So people do not have the capacity to change? What if they go to rehab? They shouldn't be allowed welfare after cleaning up?


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: dshow]
    #14149978 - 03/19/11 06:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What other behaviors should we exclude from welfare recipients? 

I mean, why stop at drugs...should they be able to own a car?  have a cell phone?  what about books?  Hell, if you're starving, why are you reading in the first place?


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleSalomon
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: badchad]
    #14149991 - 03/19/11 06:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

everything should be case dependent


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EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: badchad]
    #14150003 - 03/19/11 06:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
What other behaviors should we exclude from welfare recipients? 

I mean, why stop at drugs...should they be able to own a car?  have a cell phone?  what about books?  Hell, if you're starving, why are you reading in the first place?





people dont typically trade food stamps for cars, books and cellphones do they?


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OfflineRectangle 3D
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14150004 - 03/19/11 06:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This does make sense in the long run however what are the marijuana laws in NY? I believe its not legal yet there as medicine.

The bigger the impact on addicts life IMO the better, we need to work together to study space both outer and inner...


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: Salomon]
    #14150005 - 03/19/11 06:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

deciding welfare benefits on a case-by-case basis sounds even less efficient then the current system.

But there's a larger question:  who gets to decide?


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14150009 - 03/19/11 06:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

badchad said:
What other behaviors should we exclude from welfare recipients? 

I mean, why stop at drugs...should they be able to own a car?  have a cell phone?  what about books?  Hell, if you're starving, why are you reading in the first place?





people dont typically trade food stamps for cars, books and cellphones do they?




They certainly trade them for cash, which is valid for all of these items.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Offlinedshow
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: badchad]
    #14150013 - 03/19/11 06:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

So people do not have the capacity to change? What if they go to rehab? They shouldn't be allowed welfare after cleaning up?





They were using off the system (me and you). IDGAF if they clean up. They shouldnt of done it in the first place. We are talking people using off of other people. They dont deserve a slap on the hand. They lose their privilege.

Quote:

I mean, why stop at drugs...should they be able to own a car?  have a cell phone?  what about books?  Hell, if you're starving, why are you reading in the first place?





I hope your not serious because that is a terrible example for proving me wrong. You should stop at drugs. Thats it. Soo... stop right there


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14150018 - 03/19/11 06:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ifoundwaldo said:
Quote:

dshow said:
Exactly. The second they are caught, smoking, drinking, or other substances. They should be put off, and never able to go back on it. EVER




So people do not have the capacity to change? What if they go to rehab? They shouldn't be allowed welfare after cleaning up?





if they've managed to clean up and they're off welfare then the odds are they dont need welfare anymore anyway


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: badchad]
    #14150025 - 03/19/11 06:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

badchad said:
What other behaviors should we exclude from welfare recipients? 

I mean, why stop at drugs...should they be able to own a car?  have a cell phone?  what about books?  Hell, if you're starving, why are you reading in the first place?





people dont typically trade food stamps for cars, books and cellphones do they?




They certainly trade them for cash, which is valid for all of these items.




but far more typically used to purchase drugs, either way it's fraud and
needs to be stopped, let's start with what's easy to detect


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: dshow]
    #14150033 - 03/19/11 06:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dshow said:
I hope your not serious because that is a terrible example for proving me wrong. You should stop at drugs. Thats it. Soo... stop right there




The point is simple:  out of the millions of types of human behaviors, why arbitrarily select drug use? 

There are plenty of other "luxuries" that aren't limited, cars, clothes, foods etc.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Offlinedshow
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: badchad]
    #14150150 - 03/19/11 07:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I truly have never met a sober person who does nothing what so ever that is on welfare. So i can be a little biased there. Besides that limiting any drug related items is a step forward. One doesnt ruin it for the rest. You just simply limit drugs. Thats it. Thats all im saying. Well work on the other things in another conversation.

Either way why WOULDNT you? I mean someone who is poor, and is doing crystal meth, yet is getting welfare from the govenment. It just doesnt add up.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: badchad]
    #14150159 - 03/19/11 07:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
What other behaviors should we exclude from welfare recipients? 

I mean, why stop at drugs...should they be able to own a car?  have a cell phone?  what about books?  Hell, if you're starving, why are you reading in the first place?




Car, sure - as long as its a cheap car.  Cell phone - I dont think so.  Books?  They can go to the library.

There are lots of behaviors and situations that should exclude somebody from welfare.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: badchad]
    #14150176 - 03/19/11 07:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
What other behaviors should we exclude from welfare recipients? 

I mean, why stop at drugs...should they be able to own a car?  have a cell phone?  what about books?  Hell, if you're starving, why are you reading in the first place?




The Neo-Republicans in Wisconsin are proposing making it illegal for welfare recipients to have more than $20 cash on their person. :hitlerdance:


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OfflineKada
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: dshow]
    #14150179 - 03/19/11 07:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Children will suffer because their parents wont or can't get jobs. If you couldn't get welfare because you failed a drug test your kids starve? Suck. I mean I don't give a shit about someone who doesn't give a shit about themselves, but what about the kids in that situation? What about the guy who smokes pot because he has back pain and can't afford meds, can't afford a doctor and can't work because of it? It's not cut and dry here, good people will suffer with the bad. If they did that it would just lead to more suffering.

What to do? I dunno. They can't take that many kids away from that many parents. Are there enough jobs to give to all these people on welfare who can only get part time or no work at all?

Sure they are a drain on society, but there isn't really another alternative other than letting them all starve or fend for themselves along with their children and disabled.


--------------------
~The Cultivators Motherload~

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

"There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama

Live long and prosper.



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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: Kada]
    #14150203 - 03/19/11 07:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Letting them starve?  Give me a break.  Nobody is going to starve if they lose their welfare.  Welfare does not keep people or kids from starving.  There is free food for anybody who wants it in every city in the US, whether or not you are on welfare.


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OfflineKada
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14150216 - 03/19/11 07:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have known people on welfare who can't help but be on it. If they didn't get it they would starve or not have basic necessities like toilet paper or toothpaste. You can get SOME free food. It isn't limitless and there isn't enough to go around. Especially if there were MORE needy people.


--------------------
~The Cultivators Motherload~

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

"There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama

Live long and prosper.



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Invisiblebadchad
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Registered: 03/02/05
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: dshow]
    #14150227 - 03/19/11 07:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dshow said:

Either way why WOULDNT you? I mean someone who is poor, and is doing crystal meth, yet is getting welfare from the govenment. It just doesnt add up.




One reason is because excluding individuals from welfare could just as easily result in adverse consequences for the rest of us.  I don't think an individual hopelessly addicted to drugs is going to quit because they lose welfare.  On the contrary, I think they would result to more harmful behaviors like stealing, violence etc. 

The second reason is what I stated previously.  I don't like arbitrarily eliminating some behaviors, but not others.  More importantly, someone has to decide what is acceptable, and what is not.  Already, some have said a car is fine, and "necessary" others disagree. 

What about internet access?  What about a welfare recipient who can only hold some type of part-time, online job or something. 

This may lead to step-wise elimination of many things, some of which may harmful to individuals.  There are millions of scenarios and expenses to consider.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: Kada]
    #14150239 - 03/19/11 07:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thats bullshit leftest propaganda.  Soup kitchens, food banks and churches could feed every welfare recipient in the country.  There is no danger of starvation for the poor in the US, none at all.  They may go homeless, they may not get medical attention - but to claim they are in danger of starving is a bold faced lie.  There is copious amounts of free food in our society.  Most of the so called 'poor' just turn their noses up to it.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14150244 - 03/19/11 07:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, there is, but it's not enough. Especially if you start cutting folks off of welfare. Besides, if you're able-bodies and not disabled, you can only get a couple of years of any sort of welfare. Clinton put an end to the welfare-for-life business back in the 90's.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: badchad]
    #14150245 - 03/19/11 07:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
More importantly, someone has to decide what is acceptable, and what is not.





That is the case right now.  Some people can get on welfare, some are excluded.


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OfflineRemix
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: badchad]
    #14150262 - 03/19/11 07:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Welfare, IMO, is a deceptive system.
In the long run what it does is allow both the government and the vast amount of unemployed to accept with greater ease the fact that our current economic system screws over A LOT of people while only greatly benefiting a few.
The more people that are out on the streets, homeless and hungry, the quicker "the masses" would be willing to get rowdy and try to change society so that something like welfare isn't even necessary to begin with.

What I think the government should do, instead, is work with employers to set people up with jobs.


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Offlinedshow
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Re: New York and Welfare and Drugs. [Re: Remix]
    #14150308 - 03/19/11 07:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

One reason is because excluding individuals from welfare could just as easily result in adverse consequences for the rest of us.  I don't think an individual hopelessly addicted to drugs is going to quit because they lose welfare.  On the contrary, I think they would result to more harmful behaviors like stealing, violence etc. 




They should of never been on welfare at the start. see?


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