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Offlineroulette450
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Registered: 03/19/11
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First Timers Questions Need Answering
    #14149675 - 03/19/11 05:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So I've decided to become a mycologist. Ive spent the last couple weeks compiling necessary equipment, going over and over proper procedure and cultivation techniques, but am stuck on which one to actually go with. Here are my problems

- I am aware that the best method for a new grower is to first attempt PF Tek Cakes over a perlite base inside a terrarium. I know that this is the easiest method, hardest to mess up, and good for beginners, however I am looking to grow bulk the first time (in excess of a few ounces (dry),  at least 2) and so I have begun researching bulk grow methods.

- SO i have been researching monotub techniques with some type of casing and have narrowed it down to a coco coir mixed with vermiculite OVER substrate made up of PF Tek cakes fully colonized, broken down, and spread over the bottom of the terrarium.

My questions are,

Where does the perlite come into play?
If there is no perlite, where does my humidity come from?
Is the layering 1. Substrate, 2. Verm/coco coir?
Am I even going about this in an intelligent manner?

Any and all responses will be welcomed, id hate to waste material, albeit they are all on the "cheap" side. I am very poor :frown:

Thankyou!

-M


--------------------
---------------------------------
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -Denis Diderot
Legal Disclaimer: Everything I have ever posted is a fabrication of reality and not to be taken seriously. All pictures associated with this account are courtesy of google images.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: roulette450]
    #14149676 - 03/19/11 05:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Walk before you fly.


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?


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Offlineroulette450
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: Doc_T]
    #14149689 - 03/19/11 05:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Noted.


--------------------
---------------------------------
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -Denis Diderot
Legal Disclaimer: Everything I have ever posted is a fabrication of reality and not to be taken seriously. All pictures associated with this account are courtesy of google images.


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InvisibleFischer
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: roulette450]
    #14149763 - 03/19/11 06:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If you're a bare newbie probably best to go with the PF-tek, just dunking and rolling your cakes.

If you want a heap of shrooms, just make up more jars - it'll end up cheaper in the end than buggering up a more complicated method.

Follow RR's videos to the letter at www.mushroomvideos.com this will allow you to be sure that your substrate is ok.  Get a syringe if possible (rather than a print) from somewhere reputable such as SporeWorks, as this will cut out another opportunity to contaminate and mess up your grow.

If you do all that, the only thing that can really go wrong (don't think I've forgotten anything) is growing/fruiting conditions and sterile technique when innoculating, both of which should be pretty easy to get a handle on.


Edited by Fischer (03/19/11 06:10 PM)


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Offlineroulette450
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: Fischer]
    #14149787 - 03/19/11 06:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Is the 24 hour dunk and roll really necessary? I didnt see how that really helped too much from just planting the cakes normally


--------------------
---------------------------------
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -Denis Diderot
Legal Disclaimer: Everything I have ever posted is a fabrication of reality and not to be taken seriously. All pictures associated with this account are courtesy of google images.


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Offlinedr0409
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: Fischer]
    #14149812 - 03/19/11 06:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Go with the pf tek the first few times then attempt to step up to grains.  you will be glad you did in the long run. 

I still really enjoy do cakes


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OfflineSmirnoff
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: roulette450]
    #14149825 - 03/19/11 06:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

roulette450 said:
Is the 24 hour dunk and roll really necessary? I didnt see how that really helped too much from just planting the cakes normally[/quote

planting the cakes?
:freshwtf:


--------------------
We found the mushroom forest, Let's meet under the cap!


Ethnobotany + Mycology = Ethnomycology


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InvisibleFischer
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: roulette450]
    #14149830 - 03/19/11 06:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Neccessary? Not at all, though the general consensus is that it will significantly improve your yield, as much of the moisture in the cakes is lost during colonisation.

Keep in mind I'm a newbie myself, but here's what I've interpreted from what I've read/learned:

- Your cakes have a certain supply of water and nutrients with which to make mushrooms.
- They will (if conditions allow) produce mushrooms until supply of either falls low.
- Without dunking, the water supply will be used up far before the nutrients, wasting those nutrients.
- By continuing to dunk and roll after birthing and each flush, you will continue producing fruits until either there become no available nutrients, or the cake becomes contaminated.
- The vermiculite acts as a mini casing layer, acting as tiny moisture reservoirs and improving humidity at the cake surface.

It's costs nothing, is hard to screw up, and is generally accepted as improving yield.  Why would you NOT do it?

(Just to throw it out there, growing shrooms does not make you a mycologist any more than cooking speed from a tek makes you a chemical engineer.) 

Just start from the start and build your understanding with a combination of reading and experience, which can't be gained from a book, video or forum.


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Offlinei GrOw StUFF
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: Smirnoff]
    #14149849 - 03/19/11 06:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

if you have a good amount of PF cakes your can definately yield a few ounces....I have :grin:

On another note I started with bulk at the same time as PF cakes and had success with both.  Do what you want but PF cakes are the quickest way from inoculation to fruits....


--------------------
The mushrooms, which grow only during the season of torrential rains, awaken the forces of creation and produce an experience of spiritual abundance, of an astonishing, inexhaustible constitution of forms that identifies them with fertility and makes them a mediation, a means of communion, of communication between man and the natural world of which they are the metaphysical flesh.


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Offlinemabachko
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: dr0409]
    #14149858 - 03/19/11 06:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Although learning to walk B4 u fly makes sense, (As I am still waiting on my first crop), I am using the time to investigate other options, as well as buy what I think I'll need.
Doing it this way has cost more than If I would have done a little more research in the first place. Such as buying 3 cases of 1/2 pints because that is all they had and I didn't want to be short if I couldn't find anymore. But now I'm thinking bulk so I wouldn't need 3 cases of 1/2 pints. It kind of works that way for eveerything. Why buy 4CF of verm if ur going to use Hpoo for bulk.


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Offlineroulette450
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: Fischer]
    #14149859 - 03/19/11 06:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fischer said:
Neccessary? Not at all, though the general consensus is that it will significantly improve your yield, as much of the moisture in the cakes is lost during colonisation.

Keep in mind I'm a newbie myself, but here's what I've interpreted:

- Your cakes have a certain supply of water and nutrients with which to make mushrooms.

- They will (if conditions allow) produce mushrooms until supply of either falls low.

- Without dunking, the water supply will be used up far before the nutrients, wasting those nutrients.

- By continuing to dunk and roll after birthing and each flush, you will continue producing fruits until either there become no available nutrients, or the cake becomes contaminated.

- The vermiculite acts as a mini casing layer, acting as tiny moisture reservoirs and improving humidity at the cake surface.

It's costs nothing, is hard to screw up, and is generally accepted as improving yield.  Why would you NOT do it?

(Just to throw it out there, growing shrooms does not make you a mycologist any more than cooking speed from a tek makes you a chemical engineer.) 

Just start from the start and build your understanding with a combination of reading and experience, which can't be gained from a book, video or forum.




Awesome thanks for putting that in perspective for me.

And Will Smith.. I am now realizing that use of the word "planting" in a community of mushroom growers was probobly a bad idea. What i meant to say was, PLACING the cakes.. as in.. inside of the grow chamber.

My bad.

Resume shootin' some bball outside the school.


--------------------
---------------------------------
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -Denis Diderot
Legal Disclaimer: Everything I have ever posted is a fabrication of reality and not to be taken seriously. All pictures associated with this account are courtesy of google images.


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OfflineCynosure
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: Fischer]
    #14149867 - 03/19/11 06:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'd go with the PF/BRF tek if you're a newbie.  I'm on it now and things are looking fantastic.

I've got a load of jars going and have done some rough math.. even with 1g per cake (which is a below-average yield) I will have over two ounces. I'm sure that bulk isn't necessary for the amount you want! *crosses his fingers in attempt not to jinx his grow*


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"You can peel it [language] off the ceiling and make it dance in front of you" - McKenna

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OfflineWallpapereater
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: roulette450]
    #14149879 - 03/19/11 06:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

PF Tek forsure. It's good that you're doing research, but start with the basics. PF Tek is the most fool-proof method and you are almost guaranteed results if you use your head and follow proper techniques.

On the same note, it couldn't hurt to do both some cakes and some WBS/Popcorn/Rye jars at the same time. The tone of your post sounds urgent, and it seams like you are looking for fast way to get allot of mushrooms. Doing both types of jars at the same time will give you a couple of advantages.

1) The PF cakes will be faster from inoculation to Fruit, because you skip the step of spawning to a bulk substrate and waiting for that to colonize.

2) You also skip the step of adding a casing layer, which adds even more time from inoc. to fruit.

So, by the time you have your cakes in your fruiting chamber, you will also have jars ready to spawn to bulk.

To answer your other question about the Perlite with the monotub.. you don't use any. The colonized substrate will create it's own micro-climate.

Best Wishes man. Surf the site and soak up all you can. Allot of good info here.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: roulette450]
    #14149890 - 03/19/11 06:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know why you specifically need a certain yield, but a dozen cakes should supply enough to meet your goal.


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Offlinei GrOw StUFF
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: i GrOw StUFF]
    #14149891 - 03/19/11 06:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Dunks are needed 98% of the time that you fruit from PF cakes....By fruiting a dry cake you will get fruits as big as your pubic hairs.


--------------------
The mushrooms, which grow only during the season of torrential rains, awaken the forces of creation and produce an experience of spiritual abundance, of an astonishing, inexhaustible constitution of forms that identifies them with fertility and makes them a mediation, a means of communion, of communication between man and the natural world of which they are the metaphysical flesh.


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OfflineWallpapereater
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: i GrOw StUFF]
    #14149926 - 03/19/11 06:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

i GrOw StUFF said:
Dunks are needed 98% of the time that you fruit from PF cakes....By fruiting a dry cake you will get fruits as big as your pubic hairs.





Several feet.... gawwd


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Offlinei GrOw StUFF
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: Doc_T]
    #14149929 - 03/19/11 06:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
I don't know why you specifically need a certain yield, but a dozen cakes should supply enough to meet your goal.





Yeah seriously, my first round with PF cakes I had 20 cakes, yielded around 100g dry and they are still going....AND I fucked things up, could of had more.  Lessons learned...


--------------------
The mushrooms, which grow only during the season of torrential rains, awaken the forces of creation and produce an experience of spiritual abundance, of an astonishing, inexhaustible constitution of forms that identifies them with fertility and makes them a mediation, a means of communion, of communication between man and the natural world of which they are the metaphysical flesh.


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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: i GrOw StUFF]
    #14149939 - 03/19/11 06:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I've ate a few pubic hairs. They produce hairballs and some tasted like shit. Can't remember her name though.


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InvisibleFischer
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: roulette450]
    #14150350 - 03/19/11 07:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

roulette450 said:
Awesome thanks for putting that in perspective for me.




No worries.

Quote:

Doc_T said:
I don't know why you specifically need a certain yield, but a dozen cakes should supply enough to meet your goal.




I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there's the small chance these aren't for personal use.  What? You were all thinking it >_>


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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: roulette450]
    #14150446 - 03/19/11 08:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

roulette450 said:

- SO i have been researching monotub techniques with some type of casing and have narrowed it down to a coco coir mixed with vermiculite OVER substrate made up of PF Tek cakes fully colonized, broken down, and spread over the bottom of the terrarium.

My questions are,

Where does the perlite come into play?
If there is no perlite, where does my humidity come from?
Is the layering 1. Substrate, 2. Verm/coco coir?
Am I even going about this in an intelligent manner?




Perlite won't be necessary if you are using a monotub. It will if you are doing BRF/Verm cakes.

as for using verm/coir on top of spawned cakes, you've got some things mixed up. verm/coir is a better substrate than casing layer because it has nutrients for mycelium in it, so it would be better if you mixed your cakes into coir/verm.

as for a casing layer, you want it to be non-nutritious so the mycelium doesn't try eating it up. instead, it will provide a beneficial micro-climate and moisture retention system. you'll see mixed opinions on casing ranging from absolutely necessary to absolutely pointless. I tend to see the most experienced growers say that it is definitely preferred, but it definitely CAN be skipped if you are low on funds. you don't NEED it to fruit a bulk grow.

if you are planning on going to monotubs eventually, you'll find some or most of the resources you acquire for PF tek not getting much use.

for PF teks:
stove-top pot with fitted lid
BRF
Verm
short 1/2 pint jars
perlite
a shotgun terrarium (holes on all 6 six sides)

for tubs:
Verm/Hpoo/Coir or whatever substrate you choose
quart jars
a pressure cooker
a fruiting chamber that isn't shotgun'd
polyfill

these lists are not necessarily complete, and some of the materials mentioned and not mentioned will be used for both types of FC's but you can see how they already differ from one another pretty dramatically.

if you are low on funds, it is likely PF tek that you're going to be using. do you have or can you get a pressure cooker?

sorry, this came out to be a lot longer than I meant. I hope it helps.

:peace:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:


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OfflineCynosure
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: mabachko]
    #14150451 - 03/19/11 08:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
I don't know why you specifically need a certain yield, but a dozen cakes should supply enough to meet your goal.




I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there's the small chance these aren't for personal use.  What? You were all thinking it >_>




:thumbup:


..and
Quote:

mabachko said:
I've ate a few pubic hairs. They produce hairballs and some tasted like shit. Can't remember her name though.




:wtf:


--------------------
"You can peel it [language] off the ceiling and make it dance in front of you" - McKenna

<3 .


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Offlinei GrOw StUFF
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: Cynosure]
    #14150540 - 03/19/11 08:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I am just growing a little cubies for personal use.......Was expecting a nice sized failure rate.  Ended up succeeding with everything and have a shitload now....God damn it...


--------------------
The mushrooms, which grow only during the season of torrential rains, awaken the forces of creation and produce an experience of spiritual abundance, of an astonishing, inexhaustible constitution of forms that identifies them with fertility and makes them a mediation, a means of communion, of communication between man and the natural world of which they are the metaphysical flesh.


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Offlineroulette450
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: Fischer]
    #14153077 - 03/20/11 10:31 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there's the small chance these aren't for personal use.  What? You were all thinking it >_>




Im not growing cubensis.... im growing food..


--------------------
---------------------------------
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -Denis Diderot
Legal Disclaimer: Everything I have ever posted is a fabrication of reality and not to be taken seriously. All pictures associated with this account are courtesy of google images.


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Offlinedarkhawk37
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: roulette450]
    #14153863 - 03/20/11 01:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

lol dude you can never have to many mushroooms


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InvisibleFischer
Teonanacatalyst
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: roulette450]
    #14154200 - 03/20/11 02:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

roulette450 said:

Im not growing cubensis.... im growing food..




Quote:

roulette450 said:
I am looking to grow bulk the first time (in excess of a few ounces (dry),  at least 2) and so I have begun researching bulk grow methods.






That's a pretty small appetite you got there...


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Offlineroulette450
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: Fischer]
    #14154206 - 03/20/11 02:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Plausible Deniability :wink:


--------------------
---------------------------------
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -Denis Diderot
Legal Disclaimer: Everything I have ever posted is a fabrication of reality and not to be taken seriously. All pictures associated with this account are courtesy of google images.


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InvisibleFischer
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Re: First Timers Questions Need Answering [Re: roulette450]
    #14154283 - 03/20/11 02:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well you're halfway there :grin:


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