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OfflineHajnal
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: BothHands]
    #14139049 - 03/17/11 07:55 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
Codeine is an inactive chemical.  It only becomes active when it's metabolized into morphine by the liver.  If you snort it, it bypasses the liver, and enters your bloodstream completely inactive.  What you're feeling is from swallowing the drip.

Now the inactive codeine will eventually be metabolized to morphine via second pass metabolism, but it'll happen very slowly.  This means that the morphine from the first pass metabolism has already started leaving your system by the time the codeine starts becoming morphine via second pass metabolism.  All in all, it's extremely ineffective.

Codeine and Tramadol need to be eaten.




Really? This is good to know; I once in a while run into some from my friend and we've always snorted it. I've always felt it pretty fast, and it was a nice buzz.. Was that a placebo?


--------------------
Hajnal ['hɒjnɒl] - An elegant mixture of blood and circuitry; sorrow and love fill your systems, like the stars and black holes encompass the ∞.

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: Hajnal]
    #14139110 - 03/17/11 08:05 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not 100% sure.  It's probably a bit of placebo, and a bit of second pass metabolism, and a bit of drip.  But you should get a higher bioavailability, and a faster onset if you just chew and swallow.  If you don't chew, it needs to dissolve, but it'll still probably come up at the same speed as the insufflated dose, but it'll have a higher BA.

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Offlinenice1
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: BothHands]
    #14139125 - 03/17/11 08:07 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks good info.

Placebo effect is very strong BTW its completely underestimated in general because people just don't realise the power of the mind / belief.

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: nice1]
    #14139183 - 03/17/11 08:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Well, it's still very likely that there were some some effects that compounded with the placebo effect.  If you have an extremely full stomach, an insufflated dose might come on faster, but you'll still waste product.  But on an empty stomach, there is absolutely no reason to ever snort codeine.

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Offlines240779
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: BothHands]
    #14139212 - 03/17/11 08:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
Codeine is an inactive chemical.  It only becomes active when it's metabolized into morphine by the liver.  If you snort it, it bypasses the liver, and enters your bloodstream completely inactive.  What you're feeling is from swallowing the drip.

Now the inactive codeine will eventually be metabolized to morphine via second pass metabolism, but it'll happen very slowly.  This means that the morphine from the first pass metabolism has already started leaving your system by the time the codeine starts becoming morphine via second pass metabolism.  All in all, it's extremely ineffective.

Codeine and Tramadol need to be eaten.




You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

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OfflineIma TrooperS
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: BothHands]
    #14139213 - 03/17/11 08:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Thats what I thought. But my little bro's friend was all "I know what I'm doing" so I snorted it. :facepalm: Oh well.


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"Its moving of its own accord...and I like that in a shirt!" - Me, tripping.

deCypher said:
Schizophrenia beats dining alone, you know.

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OfflineIma TrooperS
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: s240779]
    #14139221 - 03/17/11 08:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

superhigh said:



You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?





:confused2:


--------------------
"Its moving of its own accord...and I like that in a shirt!" - Me, tripping.

deCypher said:
Schizophrenia beats dining alone, you know.

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OfflineHajnal
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: Ima Trooper]
    #14139232 - 03/17/11 08:22 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ima Trooper said:
Quote:

superhigh said:



You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?





:confused2:



Quote:

Ima Trooper said:
Quote:

superhigh said:



You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?





:confused2:




Damnit so which is it? Ah fuck it; erowid it is.


--------------------
Hajnal ['hɒjnɒl] - An elegant mixture of blood and circuitry; sorrow and love fill your systems, like the stars and black holes encompass the ∞.

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: s240779]
    #14139265 - 03/17/11 08:26 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Oh?  Enlighten me.

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OfflineIma TrooperS
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: Hajnal]
    #14139279 - 03/17/11 08:28 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

From Erowid:

"Codeine is absorbed quickly from the GI tract and it's first pass through the liver results in very little loss of the drug. This contrasts with morphine in which over 90% of the drug is metabolized in the first pass through the liver resulting in a considerable loss of potency when administered orally. This is why codeine is a common opiate in the relief of pain, the ease of oral administration.

Codeine can be administered by many routes, this includes, SC, IM (intramuscularly), as an enema, and orally."

And: "Codeine is converted to morphine during hapatic metabolism"

I don't know what that is, but its looking better and better for Bothhands...


--------------------
"Its moving of its own accord...and I like that in a shirt!" - Me, tripping.

deCypher said:
Schizophrenia beats dining alone, you know.

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Offlines240779
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: Ima Trooper]
    #14139282 - 03/17/11 08:29 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

BothHands is asserting that codeine is more effective when it's handled by the liver because it's a prodrug that needs to be converted. Heroin is also a prodrug, which converts to, I believe, morphine, 3-monoacetylmorphine, and 6-monoacetylmorphine. So why is it that heroin has the highest bioavailability when injected and the lowest bioavailability when swallowed?

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: Ima Trooper]
    #14139308 - 03/17/11 08:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I believe the reason they left out INA is because insufflating codeine can cause massive histamine release in the lungs.  Or at least that's the general consensus on bluelight, but there is no specific source, so it could be untrue.

Insufflation will work, but it will have a slower onset and a lower bioavailability, meaning you're wasting product.

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: s240779]
    #14139317 - 03/17/11 08:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

superhigh said:
BothHands is asserting that codeine is more effective when it's handled by the liver because it's a prodrug that needs to be converted. Heroin is also a prodrug, which converts to, I believe, morphine, 3-monoacetylmorphine, and 6-monoacetylmorphine. So why is it that heroin has the highest bioavailability when injected and the lowest bioavailability when swallowed?




A quick google search will answer that question.

Quote:

When taken orally, diacetylmorphine undergoes extensive first-pass metabolism via deacetylation, making it a prodrug for the systemic delivery of morphine.[17] When the drug is injected, however, it avoids this first-pass effect, very rapidly crossing the blood-brain barrier because of the presence of the acetyl groups, which render it much more fat soluble than morphine itself.[18] Once in the brain, it then is deacetylated variously into the inactive 3-monoacetylmorphine and the active 6-monoacetylmorphine (6-MAM),




When taken orally, it's a prodrug for morphine.  The liver turns it into morphine, which makes it almost the same potency as morphine.  But when it's IV'd it skips first pass metabolism, gets into the brain very quickly, and is metabolized into the more powerful chemicals in the brain.

pwnd

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Offlines240779
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: BothHands]
    #14139335 - 03/17/11 08:41 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

And how do you know codeine isn't converted better via methods other than oral?

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: s240779]
    #14139384 - 03/17/11 08:49 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Mind rephrasing your question so that it makes sense?

How do I know second pass metabolism isn't better than first pass? 


Well, they're the same.  They're both liver metabolism.  The only difference is you have to wait longer for second pass.

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Offlines240779
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: Ima Trooper]
    #14139400 - 03/17/11 08:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

You're assuming that codeine has a higher bioavailability when taken orally because you think first pass metabolism works better for it. You can't back that up.

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: s240779]
    #14139418 - 03/17/11 08:55 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

First past metabolism works the same as second pass metabolism.  I'm really not sure what you're trying to say.  They're both liver metabolism.  They both exactly the same thing.

I'm getting too drunk for this.  I'll talk to you in the morning.  In the mean time, google is your friend.

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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: BothHands]
    #14139484 - 03/17/11 09:05 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

snort drugs, swallow drugs, inject drugs, smoke drugs, ...

it's all good :awesomenod:

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OfflineHajnal
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: Beanhead]
    #14139543 - 03/17/11 09:16 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Beanhead said:
snort drugs, swallow drugs, inject drugs, smoke drugs, ...

it's all good :awesomenod:




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Hajnal ['hɒjnɒl] - An elegant mixture of blood and circuitry; sorrow and love fill your systems, like the stars and black holes encompass the ∞.

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Offlineiluvfungi
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Re: Snorting codeine? [Re: Hajnal]
    #14139634 - 03/17/11 09:29 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Dude. Ewww. Snorting Pharms, only exception I would ever make considering everything I snorted is oxycontin. I guess Welliburtin is ok to snort if you are in jail as well; better then nothing. Got to love psychiatrists; even get high in jail. Man if I ever went to prison I'd probably take solitary, kill someone immediately to avoid the gangs and butt sex; and just get high. Man I'm not even sure killing prisoners gets you solitary, I guess attack a police officer instead?

Whatever. Jail ain't fun, I couldn't imagine prison. Why use pharms when you can smoke weed and do mushrooms? I don't get it man. I'd only use pharms if I had too. Cocaine is a pretty nasty drug in high doses, I recommend growing a plant or two and just chewing on a leaf. It's much better, safer, healthier then pharms and cocaine.

Unless I'm off my rocker, codeine is derived from cocaine.

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