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Offlinecommuneart
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: danielx]
    #14168137 - 03/23/11 01:49 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhq30l_michel-chossudovski-sur-la-guerre-en-libye-s-t_news




They are not against it.  In fact, they've been calling for it for weeks.  WTF have you been smoking?

they have never called for interventions, they have called for support,supplies etc, they have asked for a free zone as well. Remember this is only a war, our media does not know necessarily, there is also alot of rebel groups looking to seize the power after the war just like the united states is trying to push phonies little washington supported bitches into the countries around lybia.

If a few traitor to lybia called for us intervention should we support them? if the nazis try to take over lybia you wouldn't support them, so do you call gaddafi a nazi? this is the difference between you and me , i did not judge other countries for the crazy ass dictators they elected as long as it truly came from the people. Gaddafi should not be in power, but hte prolbem is that he has too much charisma and his sucessor would be named by him, and thus not as strongly a man as the man who took had the balls to take power. The constant menace of the united states is the only true responsible for all the trouble of the arab world.

Also, the tribal leaders opposed to gaddafi from the est were recognized by france and portugal as a legitimate government, this proves that the rebel forces are not a united front but rather a coalition.

Edited by communeart (03/23/11 01:55 AM)

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: communeart]
    #14184773 - 03/25/11 11:35 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

well, it's official. obama is a war criminal just like bush was:

http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_30373.php


apparently bombing libya was a war crime, unconstitutional


i guess what president have we EVER had that WASN'T a war criminal? JESUS


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: imachavel]
    #14184822 - 03/25/11 11:47 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Whatever you feel about that, how is it in any way a war crime?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14185834 - 03/26/11 08:31 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It doesn't.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14185985 - 03/26/11 09:32 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, I don't get it either.

Only thing I can get from that statement is that imachavel is making up definitions of terms as he goes along.

War criminal has always had a pretty percise meaning, even if the specific requisite acts change and remain ill defined.  Bombing a country without a decleration of war has never been a war crime.

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: johnm214]
    #14186424 - 03/26/11 11:44 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Using dictionary definitions of things = slavery.

Making up your own definitions = socialism.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #14186457 - 03/26/11 11:52 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe if we're lucky President Empty Pants will start bombing Syria.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14186514 - 03/26/11 12:09 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)



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OfflineGrav
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: danielx]
    #14189258 - 03/26/11 09:50 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

danielx said:
Quote:

ChuangTzu said:

They are not against it.  In fact, they've been calling for it for weeks.  WTF have you been smoking?




are you aware of the fact that there has been dozens of CIA run "rebellions"? All you have to do is throw money around. Even easier in this technological age. Make a few twitter accounts and you have voices.

this operation should be mighty lucrative, just how much is 143 tons of gold worth?




i wonder if western intelligence even needs to go to the trouble of organizing these uprisings anymore.  it seems like you can just show a picture on the news of some brown people shaking their fists and add whatever caption you want and it will be taken as truth.

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #14190032 - 03/27/11 01:05 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Using dictionary definitions of things = slavery.

Making up your own definitions = socialism.





oh i guess i'm a socialist now. well war is a crime, murdering people is a crime. but i'm not talking of politically correct definitions.

you guys obviously didn't read the article. it says that he decided to go ahead with the air strike without congress approval, which is unconstitutional, so therefore by definition he would be a war criminal.


and obviously i don't know how that flies myself, i mean war is a crime in itself, but i'm just stating what should be politically correct


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: imachavel]
    #14191427 - 03/27/11 10:29 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Are you on drugs?

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: imachavel]
    #14191732 - 03/27/11 11:37 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:


you guys obviously didn't read the article. it says that he decided to go ahead with the air strike without congress approval, which is unconstitutional, so therefore by definition he would be a war criminal.


and obviously i don't know how that flies myself, i mean war is a crime in itself, but i'm just stating what should be politically correct




I am familar with the argument- it is not novel.  Yes, I did look at the article.

We've allready challenged your claim that to go war with constitutional justification is a war crime, your repeated declaration is not any more convincing than the first (though I don't think such acts as obama did are unconstitutional anyways).

As I said: the laws and customs of war are relatively clearly defined and they have nothing to do with what the particular beligerant's domestic law allows or does not allow.

The prototypical case of executing POW's and civilians in WWII was generally allowed by the law of the occupied countries and the beligerant's government.  This has nothing to do with anything.  Did the slaughter of French civilians not constitute a war crime because the Vichy French government helped carry it out pursuant to its legal system?  Did the German participation in such as well not constitute a war crime because their legal system accepted such acts as lawful, and in fact authorized them?  Obviously note.

A war crime is an act which violates the laws and customs of war, in part set out in treaties: such things include aggressive wars for territorial expansion/ seizure of wealth, executing POW's and surrendering combatants, targeting civilians, and so forth.  Whether the beligerant's country condoned the acts or not is immaterial.

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InvisibleTherian
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: johnm214]
    #14201558 - 03/29/11 12:30 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

My question is this, apparently NATO was given the go ahead to enforce the "no fly zone", when was the last time a pilot from Gaddafi's air force attempted a sortie? Obamas latest statements proclaiming we are not attempting to overthrow the current regime through the implementation of military intervention is pure bullshit.

We no longer are inforcing a no fly zone, but are providing tactical air to ground offensive capabilities to take out personnel as well as equipment. We are doing nothing more than providing offensive capabilities for the rebels. Of course we are attempting to overthrow ghadaffi through military means. We want and are succeeding in helping to initiate a civil war in a sovereign nation by arming rebels we know nothing about. All this at yet another huge expense to the american taxpayer. Just wait until the first civilian is accidentally killed by a missile. All the billions we will spend to help these "rebels" out will pay no dividends with the exception of creating a few dozen more shoe bombers.

Amazing how those in congress want to cut SS benefits, road construction, job training, and nearly every other program under the guise of fiscal responsibility, and of course the deficit. Where are the concerns now that it cost us 60 million for the downed jet, cruise missiles-over 1.5 million PER MISSILE, cost to fly the jets-more than 10 grand per hour, we had three b2 bombers fly 25 hour round trip bombing missions, the cost 750 thousand dollars plus another 1.3 million for the 45 JDAMS they dropped, and this for just one mission, of course the price continues to skyrocket. Yep its the teachers unions that are going to financially ruin this country. The cost of hypocrisy=priceless.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: Therian]
    #14202303 - 03/29/11 04:52 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

> when was the last time a pilot from Gaddafi's air force attempted a sortie?

I don't know that they have anything left that flies.  Part of "enforcing a no fly zone" is destroying anything that can fly.

> Amazing how those in congress ... Where are the concerns now that it cost

Congress was not consulted.

> The cost of hypocrisy=priceless.

Change!  Yes we can!  :rolleyes:


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: Therian]
    #14202443 - 03/29/11 06:22 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Therian said:
My question is this, apparently NATO was given the go ahead to enforce the "no fly zone", when was the last time a pilot from Gaddafi's air force attempted a sortie?




March 24th.

While the headlines screamed that the plane was shot down, a reading of the articles reveal it was destroyed by a "air to ground" missile, after it had landed.


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Offlined33p
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #14203636 - 03/29/11 01:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't see this when it broke. Two of the first things the rebels did was start an oil company and a central bank. Cha-ching!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-21/libyan-rebel-council-sets-up-oil-company-to-replace-qaddafi-s.html


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OfflineMelloRed
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: imachavel]
    #14208990 - 03/30/11 11:24 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
well, it's official. obama is a war criminal just like bush was:

http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_30373.php


apparently bombing libya was a war crime, unconstitutional


i guess what president have we EVER had that WASN'T a war criminal? JESUS




The term war criminal is laughable.  Any country with enough power can do what it wants as long as the leader and by proxy its people support it.  War criminals are simply people that lost and the winners make an example of.  No one's hands are clean.  The few that are close have no say in international politics and are at the whims of others.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: MelloRed]
    #14210988 - 03/30/11 06:01 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MelloRed said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
well, it's official. obama is a war criminal just like bush was:

http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_30373.php


apparently bombing libya was a war crime, unconstitutional


i guess what president have we EVER had that WASN'T a war criminal? JESUS




The term war criminal is laughable.  Any country with enough power can do what it wants as long as the leader and by proxy its people support it.  War criminals are simply people that lost and the winners make an example of.  No one's hands are clean.  The few that are close have no say in international politics and are at the whims of others.




So says you.  What justification do you have for saying these things "no one's hands are clean" et cet?

What does the fact that any country with enough power can do what it wants have to do with whether the "term war criminal is laughable?"

Seems a pretty useful concept to me, and a helpful distinction to minimize harmful conduct unrelated to legitimate interests of the belligerents.

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InvisibleTherian
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: johnm214]
    #14212730 - 03/31/11 12:00 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm confused. Obama stated we are doing nothing more than enforcing a no fly zone to prevent the wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians. He stated we will have no American soldiers on the ground, our role would be finished in days, not weeks, and we are not looking to overthrow the Gadaffi regime through military intervention.

I call bullshit on each and every one of that lying negros statements.

1. Sorties are no longer being carried out by the Libyan air force. We are not preventing civilian casualties. We are protecting and attempting to aid rebels to violently overtake their government. Since when are armed rebels "innocent civilians?" You drive around your town with rpg's and automatic machine guns engaging the military in armed combat and see what happens to you. What? how dare the oppressive corrupt regimes military use tanks and enlisted men to kill innocent civilians. Shall I post pics of Waco?

Now Obama has stated that he will not rule out sending in special forces to aid the rebels, most likely with some sort of recon. I can absolutely guarantee you my 27 virgins that we already have boots on the ground there. Since when are special forces not american soldiers that he stated would not set foot in Libya?

With the ill trained rebels in full retreat or what is now being called a stalemate, our role will become protracted. The only way to prevent this and have Obama save even a small amount of face is to take on Gaddafi's military forces more directly, not just preventing them from fighting armed rebels attempting to overthrow a sovereign nation. This means taking out army personnel, providing close air support, and of course attempting to take over the country by the use of force directly, not just by proxy.

I guarantee you that if we start to see AC-130's and Apaches being deployed there, their mission  most definitely will not be one of enforcing a no fly zone. We will be at war with Libya plain and simple. We will be arming "warlords" and most likely many terrorists. Warlords, really? WTF is this tenth century feudal Japan? These primitive Islamic fundamentalist jihad assholes need to fight and finance their own wars, the last time we armed these types they were called the Taliban, and I recall that didn't work out all that well for us. Can't afford to pay the firefighters in my county, that god we got the cash for this. Who do you think is going to be financially responsible for "rebuilding" this nation when all is said and done?

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