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OfflineGrav
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14145218 - 03/18/11 08:00 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Grav said:
you're just seeing a bunch of images of the Libyan people and then the media is interpreting for you the story of what is happening there, who the villains are, the good guys, and proposed solutions.  you're being sold a war through your emotions and desire to help innocent people.  you think a military invasion is going to make people's lives better?

as for your tweets and blogs, etc. from people on the ground,  you might find this article interesting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8388603/US-military-creates-fake-online-personas.html



So there is nothing at all happening there, right?  Nothing to see there, move along.

You didn't answer my question.  What would you do?  Ignore it since it isn't really happening?




what do you think is happening?

yes of course i would ignore it if the alternative is military invasion.

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: Grav]
    #14145582 - 03/18/11 09:09 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
yes of course i would ignore it if the alternative is military invasion.




Do you consider an air strike to be an invasion?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14145662 - 03/18/11 09:22 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It's a love letter.:tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: Icelander]
    #14145686 - 03/18/11 09:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

More like a love tap.

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14147545 - 03/19/11 09:10 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I beleive the story they are telling about getting widespread support first. I can a couple of good reasons for this:

1. Making sure it doesn't look like America or the West is getting involved in neo colonialism. Might sound trite to you but if you look it the history of the region it is full of resentment of foreign rule, its often argued that the British colonialism and then carving up of borders is a major cause of conflict. Also it is not without precedent in more recent times, i.e. Iran

2. Getting everyone agreeing on the same page helps ensure a sustained effort. If a country just went in there unilaterally the effort could be sustained, OR the political whims of the day might undermine a sustained effort.

On the other hand who knows what's really going on. The US has been trying to take out gaddifi for years. In 1953 the US organized a coup in Ian:

Quote:

The Central Intelligence Agency pressured the weak monarch while bribing street thugs, clergy, politicians and Iranian army officers to take part in a propaganda campaign against Mosaddegh and his government.

...

According to the CIA's declassified documents and records, some of the most feared mobsters in Tehran were hired by the CIA to stage pro-Shah riots on the 19th. Other CIA-paid men were brought into Tehran in buses and trucks, and took over the streets of the city.


- wikipedia



I wonder why the UN is so interested in Libya. What about protecting the citizens in the other many African countries, or in Myanmar. Its amazing that so much interest and now action is pointed to Libya when it is one of many countries with similar problems.

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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: Freedom]
    #14147710 - 03/19/11 10:04 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The coalition forces are already attacking the Libyan forces right now.


--------------------
"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: Grav]
    #14147902 - 03/19/11 10:56 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Grav said:
you're just seeing a bunch of images of the Libyan people and then the media is interpreting for you the story of what is happening there, who the villains are, the good guys, and proposed solutions.  you're being sold a war through your emotions and desire to help innocent people.  you think a military invasion is going to make people's lives better?

as for your tweets and blogs, etc. from people on the ground,  you might find this article interesting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8388603/US-military-creates-fake-online-personas.html



So there is nothing at all happening there, right?  Nothing to see there, move along.

You didn't answer my question.  What would you do?  Ignore it since it isn't really happening?




what do you think is happening?




People are fighting and dieing.  Some have an advantage.
Quote:



yes of course i would ignore it if the alternative is military invasion.




False dichotomy, child.  Make an answer that doesn't include "if".  If you have the nerve.


--------------------

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: Freedom]
    #14147913 - 03/19/11 10:58 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:


On the other hand who knows what's really going on. The US has been trying to take out gaddifi for years.




If the US wanted to take out Ghaddafi they could have done so fairly easily.  He's traveled to NYC many times.


--------------------

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Offlinemill
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: German Kahuna]
    #14148230 - 03/19/11 12:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Some kadhafi's tanks have just been destroyed by french troops.
Im not for a war but we decently cant let civils been eradicated in Benghazi.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: mill]
    #14148246 - 03/19/11 12:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

What makes them civilians?  They are actively waging war against Ghaddafi.


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Offlinemill
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14148265 - 03/19/11 12:42 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

What makes them civilians?



Children, wifes... not sure they're actively participating at wars for example. Kadhafly clearly told that he will "clean" the town including civils.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: mill]
    #14148296 - 03/19/11 12:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Human shields?  Seems pretty vile to me.  What kind of asshole brings his wife and kids into a war?


--------------------

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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: mill]
    #14148466 - 03/19/11 01:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

As if the Lybian forces would be able to surgically strike against the opposition forces by dropping bombs on and shelling the city of Bengasi. Ridiculous.


--------------------
"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".

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Invisibledanielx
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14148664 - 03/19/11 02:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
And yes, I do think it is our place.  I'm not so arrogant as to think that we are too good to stop the slaughter of innocent people when the opportunity presents itself.




why these people? what about the millions of other slaughtered innocent people who we dont help? Why here, why now?

Do you study history at all? Its hard not to see this as another act of imperialism.


--------------------
Long live kratom :kratom:

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14148974 - 03/19/11 03:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Freedom said:


On the other hand who knows what's really going on. The US has been trying to take out gaddifi for years.




Was this before Bush 2? I was listening to a BBC interview with an ex CIA guy (not an analyst but someone who was 'in the field' and according to him they had a kill order to take out Gaddafi.

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: danielx]
    #14149236 - 03/19/11 04:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

danielx said:
Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
And yes, I do think it is our place.  I'm not so arrogant as to think that we are too good to stop the slaughter of innocent people when the opportunity presents itself.




why these people? what about the millions of other slaughtered innocent people who we dont help? Why here, why now?

Do you study history at all? Its hard not to see this as another act of imperialism.




I have a history degree, yes.  I've studied history, and European history in particular, extensively.  I live for shit like this.

How is this colonialism, of any stripe?  Who will be the overlords?  Do you really think Paris or London can, or even want to, run the affairs of Tripoli?

Seriously?

Colonialism is dead and buried.  It's completely failed and discredited as a national strategy decision.  Nobody does it.

The easy thing to do is look at any military action that a country takes outside of it's own borders and say "Aha! They are just there for land/oil/money! Damnable imperialists!" I'm not some military hawk, you can look at my posts here from years ago excoriating the American adventure in Iraq.  But as I've in the last few days, this is a completely different thing.

Just because force was applied in a shameful fashion with questionable justification a few years ago in this part of the world does not mean that is what is happening here.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineGrav
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14149294 - 03/19/11 04:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

here we go, another immoral aggressive act of war is underway and the naive morons of the world rejoice that we are bringing the poor libyans freedom.  you gullible fools will swallow anything.

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: Grav]
    #14149312 - 03/19/11 04:26 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I know you don't believe in Libyans, but the people currently being attacked by Ghadaffi have been begging us to do this for a week now.

I realize that you are perfectly okay with people dying because of your beliefs, but I, for one, am not.

Life before idealism, thank you very much.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: Madtowntripper] * 1
    #14149852 - 03/19/11 06:23 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/19/france-fires-libyan-military-vehicle/

Quote:

"We have every reason to fear that left unchecked, Qaddafi will commit unspeakable atrocities," Clinton said.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/19/france-fires-libyan-military-vehicle/#ixzz1H5vSTP86





Why would anybody believe anything different of his opponents?  Here's a bankable bet.  Both sides will commit deplorable horrors on the other.


--------------------

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Offlinecommuneart
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Re: UN Authorizes Military Strikes Against Libya [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14149910 - 03/19/11 06:32 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Not the people, but the rebels and their leaders, they are always foreign backed, and they always kill the bad one in the eggs. only gaddafi is free from assassination.

Quote:


Life before idealism, thank you very much.



you have such a taboo against murder by gunfire,explosions and physical attacks. you seem to have no taboo with murder through chemicals,food speculation and so on.

I would support the rebels if they had idealism before life, but it is inevitably the people like you supporting them inevitably leads me to not care about their suffering and that really sucks. It is not people like you to be exact, but rather the fact that the forces you support do not need support, and you merely crush a weak people in reality. Gaddafi is the choice of their ancestors, it is a corrupt regime but it was one that the arabs fully supported,

Quote:


If the US wanted to take out Ghaddafi they could have done so fairly easily.  He's traveled to NYC many times.



hm, it is different to kill him in the united states than elsewhere. also his regime would have probably lasted longer, the arab world would have reacted very strongly against the united states since lybia controls oil region. fa

Edited by communeart (03/19/11 09:14 PM)

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