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Invisibleahchela
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Television
    #14135222 - 03/17/11 03:55 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Anyone else here think television is just a social engineering tool?

Haven't watched tv since I was 17, whenever I see it around now it just looks...

:gameover:


--------------------
Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Television [Re: ahchela]
    #14135223 - 03/17/11 03:57 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ahchela said:
Anyone else here think television is just a social engineering tool?


I think it's just for entertainment. :tvhead:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleMario_x86-64
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Re: Television [Re: Poid]
    #14135412 - 03/17/11 06:30 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It isn't just a social engineering tool, but it certainly is used for social engineering. It's the god of the new age to the masses.


--------------------
(LSD) Lysergic Acid Diethylamide 25
"It is just a tool to turn us into what we are supposed to be."
- Albert Hofmann

"Drugs have done good things for us, if you don't believe they have do me a favor and take all your albums, tapes, CD's and burn them. Because you know what? Those musicians that have made that great music that has enhanced your lifes through out the years ... real fucking high on drugs."
- Bill Hicks

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Re: Television [Re: Mario_x86-64]
    #14135418 - 03/17/11 06:33 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mario_x86-64 said:
It isn't just a social engineering tool, but it certainly is used for social engineering.


How do you know this? Do you have any evidence which suggests that the individuals who are involved with the production and exhibition of television shows intend to engineer society?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Television [Re: Poid]
    #14135422 - 03/17/11 06:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

How about Sesame Street?  Thats social engineering isnt it?

I think television is a powerful medium that offers alot of good as well as bad.

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Re: Television [Re: DieCommie]
    #14135435 - 03/17/11 06:38 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
How about Sesame Street?  Thats social engineering isnt it?


I haven't really seen many Sesame Street episodes, but from what I know about it, it's mostly educational; can you explain to me how an educational show for children is social engineering?


Quote:

DieCommie said:
I think television is a powerful medium that offers alot of good as well as bad.


:thumbup:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Television [Re: Poid]
    #14135459 - 03/17/11 06:48 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Do you have any evidence which suggests that the individuals who are involved with the production and exhibition of television shows intend to engineer society?




How about like 'The Merchants of Cool?'

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/view/

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Television [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #14135477 - 03/17/11 06:59 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

But marketing to teens isn't as easy as it sounds. Marketers have to find a way to seem real: true to the lives and attitudes of teenagers; in short, to become cool themselves. To that end, they search out the next cool thing and have adopted an almost anthropological approach to studying teens and analyzing their every move as if they were animals in the wild.



Marketers do not market stuff to teens for the sole purpose of "engineering" them, they market stuff to them so that they can make money; this does not prove, as the OP said, that television is just a social engineering tool.

There's no proof that they're "engineering" teens' attitudes, anyway, it's highly likely that they're just marketing things to teens that they already find appealing.



Here's something really stupid I found on that site:

Do shows hyping teen sexuality simply reflect the world of teens? Or are teens imitating the image being sold to them?


:picard:

Do these people actually think that teens are anything other than horny-as-fuck? Do they actually think that teens wouldn't be horny if it weren't for them watching sexually explicit crap on TV? Give me a fucking break...:whatever:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Television [Re: Poid]
    #14135484 - 03/17/11 07:06 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

There's no proof that they're "engineering" teens' attitudes, anyway, it's highly likely that they're just marketing things to teens that they find interesting.




I don't see a difference.

They are writing reality.

Marketing is mostly about convincing or instilling desire.
I'm sure attitude adjustments are a worthy tool.

The kids don't just find the campaign interesting...  Interest is generated among them.

Engineering.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Television [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #14135490 - 03/17/11 07:09 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
Quote:

There's no proof that they're "engineering" teens' attitudes, anyway, it's highly likely that they're just marketing things to teens that they find interesting.




I don't see a difference.


You don't? You don't see the difference between trying to influence people to buy a product that they would not have thought about buying previously, and selling them a product that already appeals to them?


Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
Marketing is mostly about convincing or instilling desire.
I'm sure attitude adjustments are a worthy tool.


Marketing is about appealing to certain populations; it's easier to give a population what they want than to change/engineer what they want.


Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
The kids don't just find the campaign interesting...  Interest is generated among them.


Huh, what campaign? Sexually explicit images are naturally appealing to teens, there is no engineering required in order to get teens to enjoy watching them.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineWScott
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Re: Television [Re: ahchela] * 1
    #14135502 - 03/17/11 07:15 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ahchela said:
Anyone else here think television is just a social engineering tool?




First, I could like to thank you for presenting the opportunity to post a video I wanted to post yesterday, but couldn't find an appropriate spot:



Aside from being a cool and calm video, she brings up an idea that an Icelandic poet gave to her.


--------------------

Edited by WScott (03/17/11 09:10 AM)

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Television [Re: WScott]
    #14135522 - 03/17/11 07:23 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

TV... initiation into an addictive, family deprived lifestyle.  money money monehhh

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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Television [Re: Poid] * 1
    #14135526 - 03/17/11 07:24 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

You don't see the difference between trying to influence people to buy a product that they would not have thought about buying previously, and selling them a product that already appeals to them?




Oh yes.  I hear you.

But, I feel that's the difference between sales and marketing.  When marketing, you often are creating a market for a previously unheard of product.  Creating buzz and hype so that people will buy.  Marketing.
Quote:


...it's easier to give a population what they want than to change/engineer what they want.




I think engineering 'want' is easier than you think.
I'm lovin it.
Quote:


Huh, what campaign?




Any successful marketing campaign is generating interest, buzz, hype and convincing consumers to buy therefore shaping culture.

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Offlinethe bizzle
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Re: Television [Re: ahchela]
    #14135533 - 03/17/11 07:26 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ahchela said:
Anyone else here think television is just a social engineering tool?

Haven't watched tv since I was 17, whenever I see it around now it just looks...

:gameover:




not quite, although it is used in that manner. Most of the social engineering is a byproduct of the quest for ratings and the almighty dollar, imo. It's kinda like the mainstream music industry, the product and consumer sides both kinda feed and mutate each other, imo








Quote:



Do shows hyping teen sexuality simply reflect the world of teens? Or are teens imitating the image being sold to them?

poid:

:picard:

Do these people actually think that teens are anything other than horny-as-fuck? Do they actually think that teens wouldn't be horny if it weren't for them watching sexually explicit crap on TV? Give me a fucking break...:whatever:




you picard facepalmed a very legitimate question that calls for a relatively interesting discussion

of course teens are horny as fuck...that doesn't change the fact that all throughout history there have been fluctuating social taboos on various things.

if you don't think, say, for example... girl on girl action, anal sex, threesomes, DPs etc are 1000% more accepted as normal and commonplace by today's youth (i'm talkin jr. high/high school) on average than they were ten years ago, well then i guess you weren't around to witness the youth 10 years ago


i guess its different for every area but I see the general atmosphere changing rapidly. Back in the day if you got somebody pregnant you MARRIED that person...and that's even if you had sex before you got married

nowadays u just hoverboard down the block and get your fetus deletus like it aint no thang


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID


Edited by the bizzle (03/17/11 07:34 AM)

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OfflineWScott
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Re: Television [Re: Poid]
    #14135548 - 03/17/11 07:34 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Do shows hyping teen sexuality simply reflect the world of teens? Or are teens imitating the image being sold to them?




I raised a very similar question with this thread, here. Emulation, immitation and the concept of role-models certainly have an impact on the growth of children, these quasi-fabricated media starlets are in the spot light, the audience is obvious.


--------------------

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Re: Television [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #14135553 - 03/17/11 07:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
Quote:

You don't see the difference between trying to influence people to buy a product that they would not have thought about buying previously, and selling them a product that already appeals to them?




Oh yes.  I hear you.

But, I feel that's the difference between sales and marketing.  When marketing, you often are creating a market for a previously unheard of product.  Creating buzz and hype so that people will buy.  Marketing.


I guess to a certain extent, marketing influences cultural attitudes and behaviors in that they cause people to have a certain attitude towards previously unheard of products, and to behave according to that attitude; but, if we consider that, in practice, whether anything is labeled as "social engineering" is often a question of intent, then we can rule out marketing as being a form of social engineering because its intent is purely to make a profit, not to engineer society.


Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
Quote:

...it's easier to give a population what they want than to change/engineer what they want.




I think engineering 'want' is easier than you think.
I'm lovin it.


That slogan does not create a desire to eat cheeseburgers, it only reminds people of an already-existing one.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Television [Re: Poid]
    #14135565 - 03/17/11 07:39 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

...because its intent is purely to make a profit, not to engineer society.




No, no...  The marketers engineer the society by shaping attitudes to later make a profit.
Quote:


That slogan does not create a desire to eat cheeseburgers, it only reminds people of an already-existing one.




Right, I was just dropping a sarcastic 'I'm lovin it' cause I'm not.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Television [Re: WScott]
    #14135568 - 03/17/11 07:39 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

the bizzle said:
if you don't think, say, for example... girl on girl action, anal sex, threesomes, DPs etc are 1000% more accepted as normal and commonplace by today's youth (i'm talkin jr. high/high school) on average than they were ten years ago, well then i guess you weren't around to witness the youth 10 years ago


Who said that people were engineered to like these things? It could just be that cultural attitudes toward sex are becoming less conservative, which causes people to seek out sexual behaviors which suit their individual tastes.


Quote:

the bizzle said:
nowadays u just hoverboard down the block and get your fetus deletus like it aint no thang


lol, "fetus deletus". :tongue:



Quote:

WScott said:
...these quasi-fabricated media starlets are in the spot light, the audience is obvious.


I didn't know I was so obvious! :blush:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Television [Re: the bizzle]
    #14135573 - 03/17/11 07:41 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

nowadays u just hoverboard down the block and get your fetus deletus like it aint no thang



:lol:

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Television [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #14135576 - 03/17/11 07:42 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
Quote:

...because its intent is purely to make a profit, not to engineer society.




No, no...  The marketers engineer the society by shaping attitudes to later make a profit.


:picard:

Wait, wait..you're actually telling me that marketers spend their time twisting their mustaches and hatching plans to engineer society, & only consider profits to be of secondary importance?



Here's what marketing really is:

Marketing - Wikipedia
Quote:

Marketing is used to identify the customer, satisfy the customer, and keep the customer.




--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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