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Offlineatown
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My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!)
    #14132736 - 03/16/11 06:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So I decided to jump into my mushroom cultivation journey by attempting two bulk grows for my first attempt.  Its been a learning experience thus far and I appreciate everyone for all the help!  I'm making this post because I want to know WHY this contamination happened for me so I can isolate the problem and reduce the chances of it reoccurring. 

Synopsis of the grow:
1) Rye Grain (Jars have self healing inoc port and synthetic filter disc), RR rye prep tek, PC 120mins, MS syringe (from sponser) flame sterilized and jars inoculated in glove box. 
2) MSG (Doc's) Tub made (Sterilite 27qt)
3) Coir prep (Damion5050 with gypsum added) with COCO HUSK (eco-earth)
4) 4 quarts colonized rye (3-4 weeks) layered with substrate and placed in tub when cool enough.
5) Tubs were placed in bag and were fruited at 3-4 weeks (I realize now I wasn't letting them breath enough at first which is why it took so long to colonize)

The first tub I fruited was only 50% colonized on the surface and I realize now this was not favorable.  My first tub was able to fruit 150grams before the green took over. My second tub was fruited at 3 weeks at 85-90% colonization on the surface.  Unfortunately, it showed two dime size spots of trich at 3 days.  I covered the areas quickly with a salt slurry but at day 5, its not enough so I've placed the tub outside to see what happens in a few days.  Wax paper was also used in both tubs. 

I don't know why this is contaminating? Conventional wisdom here is that if the tub contaminates before the first fruit, it is most likely a spawn contamination.  Its hard for me to believe given that they looked really healthy and smelled fresh when I placed the rye in the tub?  I think it might be important to note that in both tubs the green became apparent on the uncolonized brown areas of coir first before spreading. 

I have two tubs at about 75% colonization in bags right now that have the proper coir.  They already look completely different on the surface than my first two grows.  I really hope the problem is isolated to improper ability to pasteurize (by pouring boiling water) when using coco husk given its density and size of particles. 

Any thoughts?  This is bugging me!!


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: atown]
    #14132837 - 03/16/11 06:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Next time dont use husk lol..  Also was your bags sealed shut..  I put my tubs in bags but i dont completely tie them shut, they do need to be able to breath enough to get gas exchange if not they will stall out or pin early..  Also like i said dont use husk next time..


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Offlineatown
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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: Damion5050]
    #14132862 - 03/16/11 06:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Never touching husk again!  I did have the tubs sealed in a bag and I would open it every other day.  Stupidly, my understanding of air exchange during tub colonization was a bit off and I would only leave them open for a minute or two :smile: 

Is the trich coming from the husk?  It seems to gain a massive amount of momentum as soon as you put it into fruiting!

edit:  I hear people say that trich is mostly after the 2nd flush with coir.  Whats the reason for its presence usually occuring at that time?  Is it always there and just needs that long after pasteurization to take hold? 


Edited by atown (03/16/11 06:59 PM)


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: atown]
    #14132870 - 03/16/11 06:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The trich is probably coming from the husk and or bad spawn..  From now on no husk lol..  See when i put my tubs in a garbage bag i just loosly fold the open end and place it under the tub, this allows some gas exchange because i am not totally closing the bag..


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: Damion5050]
    #14132901 - 03/16/11 07:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

When you put everything in the tubs, did you just mix it all together, use a top layer or coco husk, or use a top layer of spawn?


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Offlineatown
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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: Damion5050]
    #14132931 - 03/16/11 07:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If the trich is in fact coming from the husk, it wouldn't matter how colonized the substrate is with mycelium when you fruit, right? Is it right to assume trich would have taken over no matter what I did?


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: 3Cajun1Mo8]
    #14132936 - 03/16/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I just exchanged two bricks of husk for coir today at a pet store (lost my receipt :thumbdown:). They were $5.99 per brick! I went to another pet store and they had the EXACT same thing for $2.99! They had three packs of coir for $6.99 so I got them.


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: 3Cajun1Mo8]
    #14132940 - 03/16/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

3Cajun1Mo8 said:
When you put everything in the tubs, did you just mix it all together, use a top layer or coco husk, or use a top layer of spawn?




I layered and used a top layer of my substrate (~1/2" thick) to cover my last layer of spawn.


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: atown]
    #14132941 - 03/16/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If it was from the husk then yes it would havve taken over no matter what you did..


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Offlineatown
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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: Damion5050]
    #14132958 - 03/16/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you for the help Damion!


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: atown]
    #14133042 - 03/16/11 07:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Anytime..


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: Damion5050]
    #14133088 - 03/16/11 07:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So Im wondering on the topic of coir, could you use RRs method to pasteurize in quart jars for coir????  You know mix the coir with a little gypsum and get the coir to field capacity first then throw in quart jars and pasteurize for 1hr????


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: ChaostoOrder]
    #14133096 - 03/16/11 07:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ChaostoOrder said:
So Im wondering on the topic of coir, could you use RRs method to pasteurize in quart jars for coir????  You know mix the coir with a little gypsum and get the coir to field capacity first then throw in quart jars and pasteurize for 1hr????





yeah, its the best way in my opinion.


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: ChaostoOrder]
    #14133103 - 03/16/11 07:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ChaostoOrder said:
So Im wondering on the topic of coir, could you use RRs method to pasteurize in quart jars for coir????  You know mix the coir with a little gypsum and get the coir to field capacity first then throw in quart jars and pasteurize for 1hr????





If you wanted to do it that way or just follow my tek to the T and you will be golden, either way works..


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OfflineChaostoOrder
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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: Damion5050]
    #14133120 - 03/16/11 07:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Actually I have done your tek Damion, and I must say its a fine tek sir and it has worked, just checking all my options....just got the RR dvd lovin it!!! But yeah, I never gave you your props Damion>>>>Thanks for the Tek, it IS golden!!!!:bobmarley:


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: ChaostoOrder]
    #14133139 - 03/16/11 07:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ChaostoOrder said:
Actually I have done your tek Damion, and I must say its a fine tek sir and it has worked, just checking all my options....just got the RR dvd lovin it!!! But yeah, I never gave you your props Damion>>>>Thanks for the Tek, it IS golden!!!!:bobmarley:





RR's tek would work and im pretty sure that it wont effect the moisture content of the substrate because the jars are sealed..  Sooo  I don't know I don't see why it wouldn't work, give it a shot and report back..


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: Damion5050]
    #14133849 - 03/16/11 09:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I just started a tub using this tek so how does gas exchange happen if the holes are taped and the lid is on?

Just untied my garbage bag btw


Edited by NCC1701 (03/16/11 09:44 PM)


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: NCC1701]
    #14133871 - 03/16/11 09:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well if your lid is a standard tub lid then it won't be 100% air tight..  So you SHOULD get some gas exchange from around the lid..


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: NCC1701]
    #14133876 - 03/16/11 09:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

so i shouldn't crack the lid open


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: NCC1701]
    #14133886 - 03/16/11 09:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Depends on how tight the lid fits..  I normally don't crack it open..  If you crack it to much then you actually are providing fresh air exchange..  There is a fine line between fresh air exchange and gas exchange and you need to find that line without crossing over it..


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: Damion5050]
    #14133903 - 03/16/11 09:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What if i'm using tubs much larger than a black trash bag can hold? If the black bag covers 90% of the tub, is it ok to leave that part open?

I guess since Prof and Facey have been colonizing their tubs in fruiting conditions, what would  be the harm of leaving the bag open and not folding it?


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I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably!
~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~
~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~
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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: slapphappypill]
    #14133913 - 03/16/11 09:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

you dont need the bag..

I just did two mono's facey and prof p's way, and even though it didn't colonize in 7 days like they advertise, it did colonize about a week faster then my mono's normally do when i tape up the holes..


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: biologys]
    #14133923 - 03/16/11 09:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

sounds good Bio thanks! and hopefully that helps OP as well :-)


--------------------
We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze....

                   

FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly!

I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably!
~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~
~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~
~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: NCC1701]
    #14133946 - 03/16/11 10:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

what should i look for to determine where that line is


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: NCC1701]
    #14134003 - 03/16/11 10:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Depends you can leave it exposed or put on a bag from the other end..


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: biologys]
    #14134026 - 03/16/11 10:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

biologys said:
you dont need the bag..

I just did two mono's facey and prof p's way, and even though it didn't colonize in 7 days like they advertise, it did colonize about a week faster then my mono's normally do when i tape up the holes..





And which way is that ?? 

How long does it take your tubs to colonize ??  Mine are usually done within 10-12 days.


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: Damion5050]
    #14134033 - 03/16/11 10:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

not taping the holes, stuffing with polyfil during colonization..

they finished in about 9 days where as when i normally tape the holes the quickest i've had was 14 days, but usually closer to 20..


I colonize and fruit in cooler temps then most though which is why it takes a bit longer then most.


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: biologys]
    #14134040 - 03/16/11 10:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

biologys said:
not taping the holes, stuffing with polyfil during colonization..

they finished in about 9 days where as when i normally tape the holes the quickest i've had was 14 days, but usually closer to 20..


I colonize and fruit in cooler temps then most though which is why it takes a bit longer then most.




ahhh I hate stuffing with polyfill the shit is a mess some times especially when your pins want to grow through it..  LMAO..


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: Damion5050]
    #14134049 - 03/16/11 10:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Damion5050 said:
Quote:

biologys said:
not taping the holes, stuffing with polyfil during colonization..

they finished in about 9 days where as when i normally tape the holes the quickest i've had was 14 days, but usually closer to 20..


I colonize and fruit in cooler temps then most though which is why it takes a bit longer then most.




ahhh I hate stuffing with polyfill the shit is a mess some times especially when your pins want to grow through it..  LMAO..





:lmafo: yeah i agree i hate when my fruits grow up into it!

but they kept on preaching about how much faster colonization was that way, so i gave it a try and it did work faster so :shrug:


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: biologys]
    #14134061 - 03/16/11 10:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What temp ranges you work in ??  I might have to try it some time, but normally I get full colonization in a timely manner anyways, but any increase in speed is a positive..  I just wish my jars would colonize faster lmao..


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: Damion5050]
    #14134096 - 03/16/11 10:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Damion5050 said:
What temp ranges you work in ??  I might have to try it some time, but normally I get full colonization in a timely manner anyways, but any increase in speed is a positive..  I just wish my jars would colonize faster lmao..




lmao i know right, my last jars i skipped the 24 hour soak, and simmer just to see if it works and will save me some time, this time I just poured boiling water over the grains and let sit for 2 hours, then loaded and PC'd


I normally colonize my jars at 70-75, and once i spawn my temps drop to 65 and stay there.


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: biologys]
    #14134104 - 03/16/11 10:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You work with about the same temps as I do.  Also let me know how your jars come out lmao.  That is one part of my grows that I need to tweak alittle to get it to be faster and easier is my grain spawn.


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: Damion5050]
    #14134151 - 03/16/11 10:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

definately will do...i noc'd most of them up with agar wedges hoping that if they weren't hydrated enough the live culture would be a bit quicker to allow it to colonize before drying out


but i did nocc up a few with some atl#7 spore syringe so we shall seee


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: atown]
    #14134193 - 03/16/11 10:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The Coco Husk is not the problem, I have had much success with that same brand and type.

If sterilized properly, you're not getting trich from the husk that's retarded because anything in there should be sterile when you're done anyways.
I get trich whenever I try to use coir instead of husk but thats just my 2cents


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Re: My crappy luck with my first two grows (coco husk --> trich!) [Re: Wizzy]
    #14134288 - 03/16/11 11:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Wizzy said:
The Coco Husk is not the problem, I have had much success with that same brand and type.

If sterilized properly, you're not getting trich from the husk that's retarded because anything in there should be sterile when you're done anyways.
I get trich whenever I try to use coir instead of husk but thats just my 2cents




You are supposed to pasteurize your substrate not sterilize it.  If you PC your substrate it will contaminate even faster.


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