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Baby_Hitler
Errorist




Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,660
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 7 hours, 44 minutes
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: Seuss]
#14144942 - 03/18/11 07:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sounds more like the oil cartels are to blame than the wind/solar cartels.
My understanding of thermodynamics tells me that wind and solar are just more feasible than temperature-differential based energy technology for science reasons rather than anything teh gubbamint is doing.
Not that there aren't some good ones, such as Stirling Solar in Arizona. Ultimately, though, any heat-to-work system is going to be limited by Carnot efficiency, which is a theoretical maximum of 50%, less in practice, of course.
Wind and solar just have a much higher theoretical maximum efficiency since wind and photons are both kinds of work, not heat.
I think.
Photons are organized kinetic energy, whereas heat is much less organized. Or some thang.
And then exergy, something, something...
This is where my one college class level of understanding of thermodynamics begins to fail me.
-------------------- This space for rent
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist




Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,660
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 7 hours, 44 minutes
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#14145019 - 03/18/11 07:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hrrrrmm...
This link says photovoltaics are still subject to Carnot efficiency.
Quote:
The thermodynamic limits of the Carnot efficiency are still present in a photovoltaic device but because of the large difference in temperature between the surface of the earth and the surface of the sun, the Carnot efficiency is >90%.
That's 90% of 50% total efficiency, so 45% efficiency, basically.
-------------------- This space for rent
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#14147881 - 03/19/11 10:51 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: If you think it's so lucrative, why don't you sink some money into it? You're always talking about how much money you make employing dumb people. Just imagine how rich you could get by employing smart people.

The only money I'm going to sink into it is using it on a house I build if I think there is a market for it. My company isn't a charitable organization. It is a profit making venture for me. When have I ever talked about making money from dumb people? I don't. I fire dumb people. And lazy people and worthless junkie fucks as soon as I identify them.
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: johnm214]
#14157085 - 03/20/11 11:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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{Warning this video not for people who have a hard time understanding physics}
There is actually a realistic possibility of using some of the quantum tunnelling effects outlined in this video (notably the one used in deep water photosynthesis) to extract resources. In fact even passively like genetically engineering these organisms to pack to produce 70%ish of their biomass (what they have currently for them) as oil and using it for algal bio-diesel in photobioreactors.
I believe if he in fact knows what he is talking about he's suggesting synthesizing a process like this. A process like this could revolutionize solar energy.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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iluvfungi



Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 1,488
Loc: Oakland, CA USA
Last seen: 13 years, 6 days
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: johnm214]
#14158548 - 03/21/11 09:52 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I don't think it's a good idea to build outdated designs on extremely active fault zones. And the Russians probably shouldn't build any.
Basically my feelings as well. The concerning accidents of any import are generally completely idiotic: see the soviet disasters. With private enterprise running the show and sufficiently liable, I don't see there's a big problem with nuclear power.
People I respect feel differently and are quite concerned with the waste issue, but I honestly never understood why that was really that difficult, but maybe I don't know enough to be aware of the problems. Seems like as long as you have a decent space you can store the waste there without much need for cooling, right? Isn't the cooling requirement tied to relatively dense storage plans?
What actually happened in Japan anyways? Besides from the seemingly obvious issue of building a plant which requires structural integrity to not melt down on a fault line, the news has been typically poor. From what I've heard: the plant(s) DID loose cooling, but might not have released signifigant waste and radioactive matter. This seems strange to me as it was my understanding that that type of reactor required cooling to prevent melt downs. Is this not the case? Are automatic mechanisms sufficient to put the reactor in a safe configuration during coolling loss?
Quote:
iluvfungi said: Nuclear power is horrible. Give solar power the same amount of time we've had to develop nuclear power.
? We have. People have been harnesing the sun forever. Its not their fault it sucks ass for most applications we need power for.
Quote:
Wow it's a billion times better. Even better would be to start researching quantum physic's for a energy source today. I have no doubt nuclear power is a fucking joke compared to gathering energy from the neutrino, which is not a neutron.
Wow, fantastic.
I don't get this naive faith in science: people who don't know wtf they're talking about but yet are nevertheless SURE that if they throw money and time at something that science will pop out some practical solution. This kind of attitude seems to be pretty irresponsible and stupid. If you don't have the answer, how can you be sure others do- especially given that they say they don't?
Seems just an appeal to ignorance: "well shucks, I don't understand how any of that technology mumbo jumbo works, but they figured it out! Its amazing! Therefore, they surely can figure out how to use 'quantum physic's' and solar power to replace nuclear and coal"

Well the device the aliens have is quite simple. We can build one just like it, I can even provide detailed plans on not only how to build the device, but how to extract neutrino's. I even posted it somewhere on this board so it was public to the world, if someone actually takes me seriously, instead of assuming I'm a retard when I'm a genius.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: iluvfungi]
#14158607 - 03/21/11 10:12 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm sure there's lots of aliens down near the Cali border. What's idiotic about that? Who knew those grapepickers were so smart?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All


Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 9,458
Loc: British Columbia
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: iluvfungi] 1
#14158649 - 03/21/11 10:24 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
iluvfungi said: Well the device the aliens have is quite simple. We can build one just like it, I can even provide detailed plans on not only how to build the device, but how to extract neutrino's. I even posted it somewhere on this board so it was public to the world, if someone actually takes me seriously, instead of assuming I'm a retard when I'm a genius.
Let me guess, this cutting edge technology which will revolutionize the world comes in a 5 minute Youtube video?
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: iluvfungi]
#14160219 - 03/21/11 04:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
iluvfungi said: I even posted it somewhere on this board so it was public to the world, if someone actually takes me seriously, instead of assuming I'm a retard when I'm a genius.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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jebustrist
Stranger

Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 79
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: Poid]
#14163901 - 03/22/11 10:40 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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BTW used coal ash is more radioactive than nuclear waste.
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: jebustrist]
#14164256 - 03/22/11 12:05 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jebustrist said: BTW used coal ash is more radioactive than nuclear waste.
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jebustrist
Stranger


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 79
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14164673 - 03/22/11 01:36 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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What are you laughing at?
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: jebustrist]
#14164676 - 03/22/11 01:37 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Your statement.
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jebustrist
Stranger


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 79
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14164718 - 03/22/11 01:44 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh in that case I find your self-assured ignorance hilarious.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: jebustrist]
#14164738 - 03/22/11 01:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Do you have a source for your claim?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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jebustrist
Stranger


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 79
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: Poid]
#14164821 - 03/22/11 02:05 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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The way I phrased it might be considered a bit misleading, but sometimes you have to go for broke to get asses in seats! Enjoy the brilliant light of knowledge friends.
http://www.miskeptics.org/2011/03/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: jebustrist] 1
#14164847 - 03/22/11 02:09 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jebustrist said: The way I phrased it might be considered a bit misleading, but sometimes you have to go for broke to get asses in seats! Enjoy the brilliant light of knowledge friends.
http://www.miskeptics.org/2011/03/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/
Your statement, even according to the source you linked, is totally wrong.

Edit: not just misleading, but wrong--completely wrong.
Edited by ChuangTzu (03/22/11 02:09 PM)
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jebustrist
Stranger


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 79
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14164866 - 03/22/11 02:11 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not really, and it's quite irrelevant to the point anyway, which is that coal plants are far more of a risk to public health than nuclear before you even factor in their contribution to global warming,.
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: jebustrist]
#14164969 - 03/22/11 02:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm pretty skeptical of any organization calling themselves a skeptic association.
Though coal power generation is a significant problem for health, the claim of the article's title is simply not true, not even remotely.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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jebustrist
Stranger


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 79
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: ScavengerType]
#14164977 - 03/22/11 02:34 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Try reading the actual article and understanding its point. Hell you can even just read the original paper if you want to.
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Maybe Nuclear Power Is A Bad Idea [Re: jebustrist]
#14165342 - 03/22/11 03:41 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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No dude, the paper and the dangers of coal emissions and ash. Yet for some ridiculous reason the title declares that its more radioactive than nuclear waste (like depleted uranium) which is highly radioactive.
Without a question the emissions of nuclear power plants which have full containment are next to nothing. Older plants leak nuclear waste into water and other sources, but seldom if ever emit it into the atmosphere.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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