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OfflineEnthrall
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Digital audio genius needed
    #14127820 - 03/15/11 10:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hey so does anyone know. When I burn flac to a cd does it decode from flac to WAV?

Comparing- ripping audio cd to mp3 or transcodeing flac to mp3. Is there an audio loss or advantage? I understand that flac is loseless and compressed.

figured out 2nd question-
FLAC being lossless means it is highly suitable for transcode e.g. to MP3, without the normally associated transcoding quality loss.


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Edited by Enthrall (03/15/11 10:38 PM)


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Offlinebbl337
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: Enthrall]
    #14127924 - 03/15/11 10:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

flac --> mp3 will have loss of data.

flac --> cd does not go through wav, but a similar format.  Theoretically Flac --> cd --> flac shouldn't have any losses, but it in reality probably will.


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OfflineValafar
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: Enthrall]
    #14127940 - 03/15/11 10:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If you burn .flac's to a cd it will most likely burn .flac files to it and thus wont be able to play on most cd players, but if you convert them to .wav's 1st or you have a burning program that does it than no audio quality will be lost because .flac and .wav are both uncompressed digital formats. But if you convert to mp3 there will be audio loss because mp3's are compressed audio files and have much lower qulity than any lossless or uncompressed files.
Hope this helps.


--------------------
"Tolling for the searching ones, on their speechless, seeking trail
For the lonesome-hearted lovers with too personal a tale
And for each unharmful, gentle soul misplaced inside a jail
And we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing"


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: Enthrall]
    #14127983 - 03/15/11 10:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Converting lossless to lossy is okay. Converting lossy to lossy is not.

Unless you think you can hear the difference between flac and VBR this is the biggest reason having lossless files is an advantage.


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InvisibleShockValue
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Registered: 11/18/08
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: jewunit]
    #14128109 - 03/15/11 11:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Storage is cheap. Fuck lossy.


--------------------
  • When we built temples to view the stars, we knew about all 2000 of them.


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Offlinebbl337
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: ShockValue]
    #14128150 - 03/15/11 11:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ShockValue said:
Storage is cheap. Fuck lossy.




most DAPs cannot handle lossless, most peoples sound cards aren't up to snuff, nor are their speakers or headphones.


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: ShockValue]
    #14128161 - 03/15/11 11:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Wanna buy me an HDD then? Maybe you can get me a seedbox while you're at it.


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OfflineEnthrall
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: Enthrall]
    #14128190 - 03/15/11 11:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thank for all the info.

Whats up with .cue or cue sheets?

I understand they hold the data of Track 1 00 2:00 and cd title stuff but how come when I rip a cd to flac with individual files is a cue sheet not needed? When I create single file image.flac of a cd it has an embedded cue sheet. How come a cue files isnt included with individual files?

Im using foobar as GUI and flac frontend.


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Offlinebbl337
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: Enthrall]
    #14128265 - 03/15/11 11:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i'll let someone else explain the cue stuff as I've done a good job at avoiding it, but I personally do not like foobar.  I used it on my pc which had a xfi sound card and for some reason it had a good bit of sibilance compared to any other player i used.  Haven't tried it since admittedly, and I've moved on to a nice DAC but that experience I had with the sibilance was enough for me to stop using it.


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OfflineEnthrall
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: bbl337]
    #14128341 - 03/15/11 11:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Your referring to the SSSSSSSSSSSSSS right? No vocal sibilance?

I only hear siblance on certain speakers or equipment, or tracks. I dont have problems with foobar.


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Edited by Enthrall (03/16/11 12:05 AM)


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OfflineEnthrall
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: Enthrall]
    #14128551 - 03/16/11 12:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Correct me if im wrong a cue file retains the number of tracks and the exact start/finish of a song + included gaps/silence?

So If I create individual flac files is it not possible to retain that? Is that only possible with image + cue?

I dont see a way to output individual flac files and a cue file so Im guessing thats not possible right?

-Figured it out. Foobar default flac setting doesnt have the parameter to create a cue file.


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Edited by Enthrall (03/16/11 01:04 AM)


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Invisiblepwnasaurus
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: Enthrall]
    #14128982 - 03/16/11 03:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If you want a cue file along with any other fancy stuff, use EAC (Exact Audio Copy).  Free to download.


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OfflineSynesthetic
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #14129083 - 03/16/11 03:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Okay, actual audio genius here.

First: When you burn to a CD, the files are converted to the standardized CD audio format. If the source file is lossless (FLAC, WAV, AIFF(? I've never worked with a Mac so I don't know for sure if that's the Apple version of WAV), then it will take a long time because even if it's not being compressed, it's being encoded differently. That's why burning say WMA files seems to go so much faster, even though the target file will still be the same kbps as if it had been converted from a lossless format.

Second: Going from lossless to lossy formats is always better than coding between lossy formats. In engineering, a similar process called dithering is used, where the recording program first creates a file with the highest sample rate and bit depth possible, and then converts that file to the standard (44.1khz/16 bit), or whatever the target quality has to be.

So, to wrap up this TL;DR, you need to make sure the burner you're using is converting the files from FLAC to CD format, otherwise it's just a data disc and won't play on normal CD players.


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OfflineSynesthetic
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14129090 - 03/16/11 03:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

By the way, FLAC files are annoying and pointless.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14129110 - 03/16/11 04:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Synesthetic said:
By the way, FLAC files are annoying and pointless.




I agree.  Most people, if put in a double-blind situation couldn't tell the difference.

I did some quick testing with my setup, and using a standard RCA connection, couldn't really tell the formats apart.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineValafar
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: badchad]
    #14129919 - 03/16/11 10:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Enthrall said:
Correct me if im wrong a cue file retains the number of tracks and the exact start/finish of a song + included gaps/silence?

So If I create individual flac files is it not possible to retain that? Is that only possible with image + cue?

I dont see a way to output individual flac files and a cue file so Im guessing thats not possible right?

-Figured it out. Foobar default flac setting doesnt have the parameter to create a cue file.



Yes cue files allows you to cut up a single flac file into separate tracks.
Quote:

badchad said:



Quote:

Synesthetic said:
By the way, FLAC files are annoying and pointless.




I agree.  Most people, if put in a double-blind situation couldn't tell the difference.

I did some quick testing with my setup, and using a standard RCA connection, couldn't really tell the formats apart.




You can most definitely tell the difference even with RCA, if your RCA cables are soldered properly and both sides are grounded and not shorting, maybe its because I have been going to school for this for 2 years lol but I can not handle listing to mp3's anymore. Now if itunes and ipods would just accept flac's then all would be good, even though the 1/8in jack on the ipod and the digital to analog converters in it suck horribly so it rapes the quality a good bit lol.
The great thing about flac files is that they are smaller than wavs and apple lossless files and yet do not have any audio quality loss, they have very good coding.


--------------------
"Tolling for the searching ones, on their speechless, seeking trail
For the lonesome-hearted lovers with too personal a tale
And for each unharmful, gentle soul misplaced inside a jail
And we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing"


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: Valafar]
    #14129959 - 03/16/11 10:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I recently observed that my hearing only extends to about 17.5kHz these days, with the limit of differentiation between individual notes stopping at maybe 16kHz. That means only a fraction of a note above MP3's theoretical limit of 15.5kHz. So I'm ok with MP3, although I do (obviously) hear differences between speakers, rooms, and amplifiers. Just to show that before worrying about formats, equipment and RCA jacks (as soon as someone seriously makes a case for silver wire due to its audio properties I'm gonna bail out of this thread), first think of where the most obvious weak links in the whole chain are. In about 99% of the cases, these are the speakers and the listening room, followed by hearing, followed by audio formats/sources, followed by amplifiers, and by then you're splitting hairs either way.


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InvisibleShockValue
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: koraks]
    #14129998 - 03/16/11 10:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I can pick out a mediocre mp3 a mile away, but in a lot of situations I just don't care enough to have that last 1% of quality (I listen to a lot of music through my whole-home-audio system which I can't tell the difference between a decent mp3 and a FLAC.)  However when I have my good cans on and am tuned in, I want to know I'm not missing anything.

Besides, even if it's not about listening quality, storing music in a lossless formats affords you the ability to convert to any other format later without losing anything.  I convert my FLAC to MP3 for my ipod.  I convert FLAC to Lossless AAC for my friends mac and can burn an audio CD with 0% loss.  etc etc.  Once you buy into a lossy format, you can't convert anymore without the sound going noticeably downhill.


--------------------
  • When we built temples to view the stars, we knew about all 2000 of them.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: jewunit]
    #14130028 - 03/16/11 10:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
Wanna buy me an HDD then? Maybe you can get me a seedbox while you're at it.




I got a seedbox only to realize I can't download from it because my school is blocking everything except HTTP traffic. It's so lame.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: ShockValue]
    #14130031 - 03/16/11 10:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think it would be interesting to see an actual, double-blind, human test.  I googled and haven't found one.  Sure, everyone knows FLAC is supposed to sound better, but I doubt few people could tell the difference.

I know I tested mp3 vs. FLAC and could barely tell.  I'm well aware that the slight difference I thought I noticed was most likely bias.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineEnthrall
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Re: Digital audio genius needed [Re: badchad]
    #14130974 - 03/16/11 01:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Im not using flac for listening but for archiving cd's.:thumbup:


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