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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land



Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 1,502
Loc: Rhode Island
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early
#14100040 - 03/10/11 07:29 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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I know I have a Wet Spot bacteria contamination problem with some of my jars. It's very obvious to me in this pic, which is 23 day old Enoki.

But what about this jar, where the grain is circled?

This is 8 day old Blue Oyster. It looks like Wet Spot bacteria to me, but I'm not certain. And if it is, do I have to toss the jar if this is the only grain I see like this?
-------------------- Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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solumvita
Q.B.E.


Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 2,061
Loc: South Africa
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: Terry M]
#14103532 - 03/11/11 11:26 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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that top pic is not bacteria looks like a mould.
the bottom pic could be the grain pressing against the glass i generally id bacterial contam by the smell long before i find the wet spot.
-------------------- One of these days all the answers will be revealed until then we learn from each other!
www.mushrush.co.za
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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land



Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 1,502
Loc: Rhode Island
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: solumvita]
#14103697 - 03/11/11 12:14 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks for the info, solumvita, but I'm confused. To me, the grains in the top picture look just like Figure 53 on page 52 of Stamets' "The Mushroom Cultivator." What I see in both is wettish-looking grains pressed up against the glass, with very short white-ish growth around them that does not connect to the mass of mycelium. How am I looking at this wrong?
-------------------- Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land



Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 1,502
Loc: Rhode Island
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: Terry M]
#14103720 - 03/11/11 12:26 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Also, would you expect to smell the bacteria through the small holes in the jar lid which have been covered with Micropore tape? I don't smell anything from these, but didn't really expect to given the tiny holes. I assumed that you had to open the jar to smell it, and of course that would contaminate the jar if it wasn't already contaminated.
-------------------- Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land



Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 1,502
Loc: Rhode Island
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: Terry M]
#14103966 - 03/11/11 01:27 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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This is from The Shroomery "What are common contaminants of the mushroom culture?" The jar on the left looks to me like the first jar I posted.

This photo is under "Wet Spot; Sour Rot - Bacillus sp."
-------------------- Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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solumvita
Q.B.E.


Registered: 02/12/08
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: Terry M]
#14107525 - 03/12/11 05:07 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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if you look closely you will note that the pic showing Bacillus is uniform growth, whereas your growth is more granular.
All i am saying is that I do think you have a contam but from your pic it appears to be a fungal contam maybe even a yeast I do not have TMC to hand so can not refer to it now.
-------------------- One of these days all the answers will be revealed until then we learn from each other!
www.mushrush.co.za
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: solumvita]
#14107541 - 03/12/11 05:14 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Agreed w/ solumvita. Contaminated but not with bacteria.
To address OP's question, an early bacterial infection might possibly be conquered by a bit of hydrogen peroxide. Mold will not flinch from it though.
Are you doing anything different with grain prep? How are you inoculating? And with what?
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land



Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 1,502
Loc: Rhode Island
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: solumvita]
#14107621 - 03/12/11 05:57 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
solumvita said: if you look closely you will note that the pic showing Bacillus is uniform growth, whereas your growth is more granular
Thanks! By granular do you mean at the whole grain level, where some grains have more growth than others? Ore should I be looking for some small particle-like growth?
Oh, and do you see this granular growth in both my pictures?
-------------------- Liberté, égalité, humidité.
Edited by Terry M (03/12/11 06:12 AM)
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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land



Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 1,502
Loc: Rhode Island
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: Doc_T]
#14107636 - 03/12/11 06:05 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said: Agreed w/ solumvita. Contaminated but not with bacteria.
To address OP's question, an early bacterial infection might possibly be conquered by a bit of hydrogen peroxide. Mold will not flinch from it though.
Are you doing anything different with grain prep? How are you inoculating? And with what?
Nothing different. The first jar is inoculated with home-grown LC. The second is directly from an LC syringe I just got from sporeWorks. Doing all in a GB with carefully alcohol-sterilized stuff. I am using grain jars which I prepared and sterilized a few weeks ago, and left on the shelf. Could that be the problem?
-------------------- Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: Terry M]
#14107640 - 03/12/11 06:12 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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A few weeks is a pretty long time. And you're seeing the same contam, though shooting from two different syringes. I usually blame the LC, but in this case... I dunno. I'd start fresh jars for sure. Maybe some agar dishes as well.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land



Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 1,502
Loc: Rhode Island
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: Doc_T]
#14107648 - 03/12/11 06:17 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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OK, I'll start out completely fresh, and clean out the remaining prepaired grain jars on my shelf.
Still trying to develop my contam. recognition skills. I'm really having a hard time seeing the problem with my lower picture, other than light growth rather instead of a heavy, sharply-defined white mycelium.
Edited by Terry M (03/12/11 08:26 AM)
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: Terry M]
#14107651 - 03/12/11 06:19 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Leave that one a few days, see what happens. You said that's oysters, right? Sometimes they grow funny.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land



Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 1,502
Loc: Rhode Island
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: Doc_T]
#14107661 - 03/12/11 06:32 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said: Leave that one a few days, see what happens. You said that's oysters, right? Sometimes they grow funny.
Yeah, I was prepared for wispy growth for the oyster. But I've got what I think is heavier growth at the top surface, and at other places in the jar. Maybe this unevenness over the entire jar is because there was some initial fast growth of some mold. This growth seemed to come from from the areas under the inoculation holes.
-------------------- Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land



Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 1,502
Loc: Rhode Island
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: Terry M]
#14119994 - 03/14/11 03:40 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Unfortunately, I'm still at a loss to recognize the "granular growth" which signals mold. It's been 14 days, and my 3 jars of Blue Oyster seem to be colonized 80-90%. Can anyone point me to a picture showing mold vs. healthy mycelium on rye grain? I can post pics of my jars later today.
-------------------- Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land



Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 1,502
Loc: Rhode Island
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: Terry M]
#14120876 - 03/14/11 06:16 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Here are my jars after 12 days (corrected from 14):

They look good to me, but can more experienced people see any contam?
-------------------- Liberté, égalité, humidité.
Edited by Terry M (03/14/11 06:30 PM)
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solumvita
Q.B.E.


Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 2,061
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: Terry M]
#14124928 - 03/15/11 01:29 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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sorry, can not see much with that contrast. the granular growth is distinct from the smooth growth of bacteria.
I doubt it is as important as it sounds, rather concentrate on recognizing healthy mycelium the rest can be lumped together as contam.
-------------------- One of these days all the answers will be revealed until then we learn from each other!
www.mushrush.co.za
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Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land



Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 1,502
Loc: Rhode Island
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: solumvita]
#14124982 - 03/15/11 01:40 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
solumvita said: sorry, can not see much with that contrast. the granular growth is distinct from the smooth growth of bacteria.
I doubt it is as important as it sounds, rather concentrate on recognizing healthy mycelium the rest can be lumped together as contam.
Thanks, solumvita!
Here's the same pic with the contrast/brightness adjusted so there is more greyscale range:

Let me know if anything jumps out at you.
-------------------- Liberté, égalité, humidité.
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solumvita
Q.B.E.


Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 2,061
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Help spotting Wet Spot bacteria early [Re: Terry M]
#14125067 - 03/15/11 01:58 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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It looks okaaay... battling to see the mycelium, but a nice white and no sign of green, you probably okay on those jars
-------------------- One of these days all the answers will be revealed until then we learn from each other!
www.mushrush.co.za
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