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Offlineyessir
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: deCypher]
    #14122515 - 03/14/11 10:34 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Biff
I feel for you man. I'm the same way, but to a much lesser degree. Internet hugs?  :hug:
I could really use a real hug.

Quote:

deCypher said:

Well if they're really young then you can physically prevent them from doing something bad; otherwise I see no reason why I can't explain why it's bad in terms they'll understand.  :shrug:




To a degree. But logic is something a lot of adults still haven't developed. I think a child's logic is quite limited.

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Invisiblesleepy
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: yessir]
    #14122662 - 03/14/11 10:59 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

depressed deadheads more likely to smoke a bowl

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Invisiblesleepy
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: sleepy]
    #14122672 - 03/14/11 11:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

not preaching or anything.  dude, i'm writing this from the past.  sending it to the future, and you are reading it in the present.  WEIRD MAN !!!!1! one



wait this was about spanking dads right.  well,  thats sucks

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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14122836 - 03/14/11 11:29 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
i think the better alternative to hitting your child for misbehaving is hitting the people who corrupted them, most of what a child does is learned, it can also be unlearned through methods that don't involve physical punishment, it just takes longer, alot of parents dont have the time or energy for this and resort to physical abuse when mental abuse its cleaner





you're advocating abuse?

emotional/'mental' abuse is far worse than physical
abuse and a spanking doesnt equate to abuse by any means




spanking a child causes both physical AND mental abuse, whereas mental abuse only causes mental abuse:obama:

oh and in addition to the above statement, physical abuse is more times than not, followed by words that are also considered mental abuse


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: yessir]
    #14123831 - 03/15/11 06:37 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

yessir said:
All you have to do is put them next to a wall and watch them from a distance. No toys. A child's conception of time passes much slower. For them, it's agonizing. Once they calm down and apologize/recognize the issue, they can go. They mess up again, it's back to the timeout.





that shit had no effect on me or my siblings and none on my kids, I could
stand there for hours and stay inside my head, I have always had more
patience than anyone I've known, my daughter simply wouldnt listen, you stand
her in a corner and she'd just leave and do what she wanted to do, put her
back and the same thing happens and you could go back and forth with her all
day, at what point does testing your patience wear thin

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #14123835 - 03/15/11 06:38 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
spanking a child causes both physical AND mental abuse, whereas mental abuse only causes mental abuse:obama:

oh and in addition to the above statement, physical abuse is more times than not, followed by words that are also considered mental abuse





bullshit, DFCS and most judges will tell you that you dont know what your talking about

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OfflineBlueJayWay
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #14123892 - 03/15/11 07:04 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

My dad has been severely depressed for my entire life. He NEVER spanked me; My mom did though. On the depressed dad's being less likely to be involved in their children's life, that wasn't true for me either. My dad was great; he'd make up stories and tell them to me, we'd play games (but not board games because he always let me win which I hated), etc. Also, my dad was severely abused as a child, but he didn't continue the cycle.

Spanking never worked for me. You could say I didn't get hit hard enough, but if I got hit harder, then it moves from spanking to abuse. Whenever my mom spanked me, I'd fucking hit her with a fist right back. I hated that shit. When I was about 7, I realized that no one has the fucking right to control me because I'm a human being, not just a fucking child. I've actually always had a problem with authority in this way, since  very very young age. However I've never gotten in trouble with teachers or other authority figures besides parents, but I think that's because I actually try to avoid creating trouble when possible.

Still, my mom would spank me and I'd hit her back. Eventually, I started using fingernails and I'd scratch her when she tried to physically harm me, leaving her with scars at times. I've never thought it was fair that she could hit me without her getting hit back. Eventually she gave up on trying to spank me at all.

On a similar discipline note, I've never been successfully grounded. My mom has tried to ground me before, but it never worked because really, what could she do? Take something of mine away? I'd take it back. Eventually, by about age 13, she pretty much almost completely stopped trying to discipline me. And guess what? I'm completely fine. I get wonderful grades, I've never made any real enemies, I've never gotten in a fight (with someone outside of my household), I try not to offend people, I'm not mean to people, I'm responsible for myself on a safety level...I basically never cause major trouble, outside of household arguments. Also, when my mom stopped trying to discipline me, we stopped having daily arguments and fights; our relationship improved, and I'm just fine now.

You could think of me as a "brat" for hitting back and disobeying my parents, but really, I've never thought anyone has the right to hit me if I haven't hit them. I've also never thought anyone has the right to control my daily activities; you can't make me do my homework if I don't want to, just like I don't have the power to make my parents do anything.

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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14123934 - 03/15/11 07:25 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
spanking a child causes both physical AND mental abuse, whereas mental abuse only causes mental abuse:obama:

oh and in addition to the above statement, physical abuse is more times than not, followed by words that are also considered mental abuse





bullshit, DFCS and most judges will tell you that you dont know what your talking about




all physical pain is registered in the brain well obviously but, that itself is just physical abuse, however almost all cases of physical abuse are tied into events that lead up to them, tied into thoughts and feelings. 

society hasn't even scratched the surface of the mind, id hardly give a rats ass what a judge or so called professional says, you can go cross reference with the AA threads for a few examples.

but back on point, the entire reason you envoke physical abuse onto someone is to alter there minds, so think about that for a minute...and physical abuse is more frowned apon for a reason.

also what do your judges and DFCS w/e that stands for think about rape...

Edited by makaveli8x8 (03/15/11 07:30 AM)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #14123960 - 03/15/11 07:40 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
all physical pain is registered in the brain well obviously but, that itself is just physical abuse, however almost all cases of physical abuse are tied into events that lead up to them, tied into thoughts and feelings. 




so my daughter jumping off the back of the couch and landing on her elbow
is abuse? I must have been abused when I sliced my own hand open at 14

Quote:

society hasn't even scratched the surface of the mind, id hardly give a rats ass what a judge or so called professional says, you can go cross reference with the AA threads for a few examples.





yet your own views hold far more weight, you know what abuse is and people
that deal with it daily do not, it makes so much sense to me now?
AA is a joke because they want to view addiction as an incurable disease

Quote:

but back on point, the entire reason you envoke physical abuse onto someone is to alter there minds, so think about that for a minute...




so using drugs is abuse since so many of the hippies here take drugs to
alter their minds, I'm glad to know I continued the cycle of abuse by
dosing LSD and mushrooms and really by your definitions standing a kid in
a corner qualifies as abuse as well because it's an attempt to alter the
mind of a child, to take them from a state of agitation to a state of
being more compliant and thus we no have no ways in which we can
discipline a child other than giving them everything they want

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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: Choix Sinaloa]
    #14123972 - 03/15/11 07:46 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The implication of causation may be backwards here.

Perhaps annoying, misbehaved children make fathers depressed.  These children may deserve physical discipline in the first place.  Thus, spanking has little direc relation to depression.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #14123974 - 03/15/11 07:47 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
also what do your judges and DFCS w/e that stands for think about rape...





rape isnt a part of this discussion as we arent talking about using rape as a
form of punishment, there's a huge difference between smacking a kid on the
butt with your hand and having forcible sex with one

or is that distinction blurred with you

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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14124021 - 03/15/11 08:04 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

yah im fairly sure it is possible to abuse yourself:smilingpuppy:

and yes standing a child in a corner can be mental abuse as well

and yes this is obviously my view on it, and i feel it makes complete sense.

The point here is that these "tools" you use cage the mind, the whole reason you use them is to cause mental and physical pain to "make" the child NOT do something.  To me thats completely the wrong approach.  Its like beating a tv to get better reception, its just stupid, and you know where you learned to do all these things?  Your government, and all these things get passed along as a culture, and its no wonder we grow up and stand around saying WTF is up with these stupid laws....and then you look around and think how can all these other people walk around in there daily lives thinking its all ok...because thats how they were raised. Minds are being sterilized by abuse in multiple forms its no wonder people just keep on walking.

If you but in the time and effort you can mostly get your kids to do w/e you want, and w/e you can't get them to do they know before had everything they should and if they do it anyway thats just life.  And im sure you can come up with all kinds of cute little examples, but you gotta understand the world doesn't or shouldn't revolve around a single life, its for the better of mankind.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14124026 - 03/15/11 08:05 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
also what do your judges and DFCS w/e that stands for think about rape...





rape isnt a part of this discussion as we arent talking about using rape as a
form of punishment, there's a huge difference between smacking a kid on the
butt with your hand and having forcible sex with one

or is that distinction blurred with you




no your just trying to blur the discussion, were talking about acts of the physical kind on the body, clearly you believe rape of the physical nature can cause mental side effects which is why you so smartly tried to deflect this issue.

Point made, physical acts cause mental issues.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

Edited by makaveli8x8 (03/15/11 08:06 AM)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #14124095 - 03/15/11 08:29 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
and yes standing a child in a corner can be mental abuse as well




so what's the solution to child discipline, give them ice cream when they misbehave?



Quote:

Its like beating a tv to get better reception, its just stupid, and you know where you learned to do all these things?  Your government





wow.. thanks for letting us know just how out of touch with reality you are

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #14124099 - 03/15/11 08:30 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
also what do your judges and DFCS w/e that stands for think about rape...





rape isnt a part of this discussion as we arent talking about using rape as a
form of punishment, there's a huge difference between smacking a kid on the
butt with your hand and having forcible sex with one

or is that distinction blurred with you




no your just trying to blur the discussion, were talking about acts of the physical kind on the body, clearly you believe rape of the physical nature can cause mental side effects which is why you so smartly tried to deflect this issue.

Point made, physical acts cause mental issues.





you dont see the difference in rape and a spanking?

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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14124114 - 03/15/11 08:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

no you don't give them anything other than knowledge, simple enough and i never said there was an answer your only a guide, but you knew that already your just baiting me for more ammunition.

and what part of that statement gave you the illusion that i was out of touch with reality, seems i jolted you back to it by pointing out physical abuse= mental abuse.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #14124140 - 03/15/11 08:41 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Stimuli shape behavior, including physical and negative stimuli.

Children are too stupid, and haven't yet developed the ability to be "reasoned" with, or to cognitively evaluate the logic behind their actions.  This is why more basic methods are used (e.g. this action = pain or other aversive consequence).


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineKada
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14124151 - 03/15/11 08:45 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

MY 2 year old gets so crazy and destructive that a spanking is the ONLY thing that will get him to stop. I spanked him pretty good last week and he is still behaving like I did it this morning. It didn't hurt him, just put things in perspective. I don't spank to hurt, I spank to teach. Sometimes letting them know you have it in you to let them have it if necessary is all they need to learn.

Spanking is not abuse. It's a tool that can be abused tho. I think that was the 3rd spanking the kid has gotten in his almost 3 years of life. Each time it has been VERY effective in changing his bad attitude and behavior. 5 minutes after he is a sweet angel and the spanking doesn't appear to have any negative emotions from it. For days he was acting out, destroying the house and just misbehaving at every corner. One good spanking and he immediately reverted to listening to me. I knew he just needed to learn who was the boss. It wasn't a hard spanking. We rough house and wrestle harder than that. It was just the process and intent he didn't enjoy. He KNEW he better straighten up.

Spanking can be a positive thing as long as it stays far away from real physical abuse.

I support spankings. They are effective when reason and logic gets thrown out the window.


--------------------
~The Cultivators Motherload~

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

"There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama

Live long and prosper.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14124185 - 03/15/11 08:58 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
also what do your judges and DFCS w/e that stands for think about rape...





rape isnt a part of this discussion as we arent talking about using rape as a
form of punishment, there's a huge difference between smacking a kid on the
butt with your hand and having forcible sex with one

or is that distinction blurred with you




no your just trying to blur the discussion, were talking about acts of the physical kind on the body, clearly you believe rape of the physical nature can cause mental side effects which is why you so smartly tried to deflect this issue.

Point made, physical acts cause mental issues.





you dont see the difference in rape and a spanking?




physical=both inact damage to body, the amount can vary greatly in both situations.
Mental= same as above

so..no not really, the debate wasn't about which one was worse by the way incase you didn't notice.

the bigger picture is fixing society as a whole, that was my point all along

its not just about rising your child, its about making society a better place.  Little girls are becoming sluts nation wide, its a serious plague spreading, do you not think lots of them are being beaten? 

changing the way kids are raised changes the way they learn.  You beat your child, thats the only way they will learn, your yell at your child thats the only way they learn, well you know for the most part.(this is why some people have so much trouble in school, all there life even there learning handicapped)  Accepting that they will fail, accepting mistakes, they grow up more willing to listen to logic, more willing to think, and with more of a natural, free will, more human.  Also if you never yell, and never beat your child they never rebel.  You ever notice how your child LISTEN to there friends?  hmm, thats odd huh.

You have to remember there's lots of reasons why 'some' children are so uncontrolable, its not so much the child, its the surroundings.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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OfflineKada
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Re: Depressed dads more likely to spank [Re: makaveli8x8] * 1
    #14124274 - 03/15/11 09:29 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If you don't have kids you have no idea what your talking about.

That's not directed at anyone particular.

Seriously tho, If you don't have kids you don't have a clue.

Not a single one.


--------------------
~The Cultivators Motherload~

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

"There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama

Live long and prosper.


Edited by Kada (03/15/11 09:36 AM)

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